Need an "Everyday" Lens

[wekhogan]

Or is there such a thing? I mainly photograph my kids doing something - a mix of indoors and out. I also do 95% of the photography for my kids' school yearbook and some of the inside shots just don't have the sharpness I want. I have a Canon 40D and I have the 24-85mm IS. But it's 4-5.6, and ever since I took out a mortgage rotfl2: ) and got the 70-200 f/2.8 for ice skating and hockey pictures, I've been more and more unhappy with the 24-85.

But the very shallow DOF is scaring me away from something that wide as an everyday. Especially as I do a lot of groups and I need everyone in focus.

Any suggestions>?

 

[KarenAylwood]

I got the Canon 18-200mm IS EF-S lens for Christmas and absolutely LOVE it. It's amazing for everyday things and it's great for taking on vacation. I've got my zoom but I love my wide angles. It also produces very nice, sharp pictures.

Not the cheapest lens out there, but totally worth it in my opinion. A friend of mine got the 75-300 and was SO jealous when he saw mine

Here it is on B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/582444-USA/Canon_2752B002_EF_S_18_200mm_f_3_5_5_6_IS.html

 

[ukcatfan]

You need something that has a f/2.8 through the range. There are a number of options, but I suspect almost all will be sharper than your current everyday lens.

 

[wekhogan]

You need something that has a f/2.8 through the range. There are a number of options, but I suspect almost all will be sharper than your current everyday lens.

I can't find a zoom with 2.8 though the range. I found the 24-70 f/2.8, but it's static. Won't my DOF always be very shallow?

 

[Steve's Girl]

Yes. Your DOF will be shallow, but that is the trade off for having a lens that is fast enough for indoor photos without a flash. Look at the Tamron and Sigma options for 2.8 lenses. They both have lenses in the 18-55 and 24-70 range that are quite good.

 

[wekhogan]

I got the Canon 18-200mm IS EF-S lens for Christmas and absolutely LOVE it. It's amazing for everyday things and it's great for taking on vacation. I've got my zoom but I love my wide angles. It also produces very nice, sharp pictures.


I love the idea of having so much zoom available - how convenient. Since I already have the 70-200, though, I wanted something more like what I have now (24-85).

 

[handicap18]

I can't find a zoom with 2.8 though the range. I found the 24-70 f/2.8, but it's static. Won't my DOF always be very shallow?

It will always be shallow if you only use it at f/2.8. But for general purpose pics with a good flash you can use f/5.6 or f/8 and get tack sharp images with a mid range f/2.8 zoom.

Tamron has a nice 17-50mm f/2.8 and Sigma makes a pretty good 24-70mm f/2.8.

 

[wekhogan]

It will always be shallow if you only use it at f/2.8. But for general purpose pics with a good flash you can use f/5.6 or f/8 and get tack sharp images with a mid range f/2.8 zoom.

Not to be stupid, but does that mean I always have to shoot AV priority to get a deeper DOF so group pictures are all sharp?

And if I can use f/5.6, why doesn't my current lens seem as sharp?

 

[handicap18]

Not to be stupid, but does that mean I always have to shoot AV priority to get a deeper DOF so group pictures are all sharp?

And if I can use f/5.6, why doesn't my current lens seem as sharp?

Typically, zoom lenses are sharpest when stopped down a bit. So if your max f/stop is f/5.6 on the long end of the zoom, it is probably sharpest starting around f/8.

Not all lenses are created equal. Standards for kit lenses aren't the same for the expensive ones. Kit lenses are more like starter lenses and are made to keep the initial overall price of the camera down. Thus you see them with a variable aperture. The more you zoom, the smaller your maximum f/stop is. Image quality/sharpness isn't necessarily the best. Some lenses are soft. Many kit lenses fall into the "soft" category, thus not producing sharp images like the more expensive better made lenses.

If you want to control depth of field yourself, then yes, shooting in AV mode is your best bet. I shoot in aperture priority probably 95% of the time. I think you'll find that most who consider themselves more of photo hobbiest/enthusiast as opposed to just a picture taker will use aperture priority for the majority of their shots.

When I shoot a group of people and they are not in the same row, I bump my ISO to 800 and use f/8 with a flash (depending on available light). Even if I do portraits of 1 of 2 people I'll use f/5.6. A lot of time for portraits I'll use my 50mm f/1.8 lens. I get razor sharp images at f/5.6. If I use natural light, then I'll use a bigger f/stop but I also try to only do that with 1 person because the DOF gets much shallower.

Overall there are a lot of variables that go into it. Just because you have an f/2.8 lens doesn't mean you only use it at f/2.8. You can use Program or the pre-programed icon modes, but then your letting the camera decide what the DOF is going to be. Take control yourself and use AV.

 

[wekhogan]

Thanks so much for that info. I more use shutter priority, probably because I understand it - AV has had me a bit puzzled - I don't fully understand everything about it, but your response helped.
I'm going to have to do some practicing with AV. Thanks so much again.

 

[handicap18]

Remember, f/stops are fractions. So just like 1/2 is bigger than 1/4, f/2 is bigger than f/4. The bigger the opening the LESS the depth of field. It works just like your eye. When your indoors with the lights off the pupil of your eye opens wide to let in more light. When you go outside the pupil closes more.

Ever notice that people will squint when they want to see something more in focus... this is giving "more depth of field". Same with a camera lens. The smaller the opening the more depth of field. Keep in mind that to get a good shutter speed you'll have to also compensate with either a tripod or a higher ISO. Its all related,,,,, f/stop, shutter speed and ISO.

 

[GrillMouster]

Hey, wekhogan. Just for clarification, f/2.8 isn't the only aperture on your 70-200 lens, it's the maximum aperture. You can still shoot that lens at any aperture up to its minimum, which I believe for that lens is f/22. Depth of field is affected primarily by the aperture you use ( but it's also affected by the subject-to-camera distance and the lens' focal length). As you know, depth of field shrinks as aperture increases. You can choose the aperture in manual mode or aperture priority mode. You can also "trick" the camera into using your desired aperture in shutter priority mode by adjusting the shutter speed and/or the ISO. For instance, choosing a slower shutter speed or a higher ISO will cause the camera to select a smaller aperture. Choosing a faster shutter speed or lower ISO will cause the camera to select a wider aperture. Regardless of whether you're shooting in aperture priority, shutter priority, manual, or any other mode, the depth of field and exposure will be the same if the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are the same.

As for why one lens appears sharper than another, what handicap18 said is true. Lenses tend to be sharper when they're "stopped down" by one or two stops from their maximum aperture. So, where an f/2.8 lens may have its "sweet spot" at f/4 or f/5.6, an f/4-5.6 lens may have its "sweet spot" at f/8 or f/11. Beyond that, there's the fact that the more expensive, high-end lenses tend to have superior optics, coatings, and build quality. F/2.8 lenses tend to be in this category, so an f/2.8 lens set to f/2.8 may still be sharper than an f/4-5.6 lens set to f/8.

 

[bdtracey]

Great thread! I'm kind of in the same boat but I'm not "supposed" to be looking

Like I told DW...I've always got my eyes open. If I'm not looking, I'm not learning.

 

[jann1033]

Thanks so much for that info. I more use shutter priority, probably because I understand it - AV has had me a bit puzzled - I don't fully understand everything about it, but your response helped.
I'm going to have to do some practicing with AV. Thanks so much again.

interestingly, i was just listening to a podcast( terry donelly or bryan petersen maybe?) but whom ever mentioned he only uses av when it 's something he wants to have tight control over dof...i usually use av but thought after listening i 'd try tv more. av you are just setting the lens aperture rather than the shutter speed then your camera will set the shutter speed for the correct exposure( right now on tv you are setting the shutter, it is setting the aperture) there should be a little button just under the flash button on your camera( unless they moved it) to check out your dof before you take the shot if you are using av ( when i push it, usually i can'[t see much difference but maybe that is me)
but you can change the f stop of your lens, even one with a f stop that is throughout the entire range or a prime( no zoom) lens. however, if it's a canon 70-200f2.8 it's an"l" and that is one of the top of the line lens you will forever now judge all other lens by... and most under a k will probably be found deficient, some way deficient some only moderately so
adorama has some kind of 100 tips for 100 days thing going on,,,one had a nice chart whit iso, shtter and aperture and showed what "matched".he was talking about freezing action but maybe it would help with this as well. http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?article=102208&op=academy_new

 

[bdtracey]

interestingly, i was just listening to a podcast( terry donelly or bryan petersen maybe?) but whom ever mentioned he only uses av when it 's something he wants to have tight control over dof...i usually use av but thought after listening i 'd try tv more. av you are just setting the lens aperture rather than the shutter speed then your camera will set the shutter speed for the correct exposure( right now on tv you are setting the shutter, it is setting the aperture) there should be a little button just under the flash button on your camera( unless they moved it) to check out your dof before you take the shot if you are using av ( when i push it, usually i can'[t see much difference but maybe that is me)
but you can change the f stop of your lens, even one with a f stop that is throughout the entire range or a prime( no zoom) lens. however, if it's a canon 70-200f2.8 it's an"l" and that is one of the top of the line lens you will forever now judge all other lens by... and most under a k will probably be found deficient, some way deficient some only moderately so
adorama has some kind of 100 tips for 100 days thing going on,,,one had a nice chart whit iso, shtter and aperture and showed what "matched".he was talking about freezing action but maybe it would help with this as well. http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?article=102208&op=academy_new

Alright...where's the smiley making the hand motion sweeping over his head?

I'm confused!!!! I think I'm going to pick up that "Understanding Exposure" book and go from there.

Thanks for the info though! I'm sure if I keep re-reading it it'll start to sink in.

 

[wekhogan]

adorama has some kind of 100 tips for 100 days thing going on,,,one had a nice chart whit iso, shtter and aperture and showed what "matched".he was talking about freezing action but maybe it would help with this as well. http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?article=102208&op=academy_new

LOL - Yes, I think that's what the problem is - I am finding my "regular" lens very deficient after the beauty of my L lens.

But thanks so much for that link - I didn't think it possible to get such sharp sports pics on ISO 100. I love 100, but I really thought everything had to be still for no blur. I'm going to have to try those settings out.

 

[wekhogan]

I just wanted to thank everyone who responded with such great suggestions - it was very kind and helpful and I very much appreciate the help.