Need an attorney??

[Chicago526]

Oops. I guess we can add travel agents and lawyers to my list of "dont need"...sorry. I've rarely used a TA. The one time I did was a few year ago when I was comparing the internet to an agency. The TA I was working with gave me the exact same quote (plus $15 agency fee) as I got on the internet. The reason I went with her is because she researched it for me so I felt bad. Since then, I have always gotten better deals on the net then Ive seen in TA ads. Speaking of ads, the ones I see for Liberty Travel in the Boston area are usually outrageously expensive.

I'm a TA (don't worry, I'm not offended! ) and a lot of straight forward travel doesn't need a travel agent, that's true. A normal round-trip airline ticket or a straight forward vacation package, those things can almost book themselves.

But then, I do have friends and family that manage to screw even THAT up and call me to fix it for them, so who knows!

Anyway, I compare using a TA to book travel to using a painter to paint your house. I can paint, heck most people can. But it's time consuming and messy, and sometimes you've got a tricky corner or an odd surface and it takes a lot longer to figure out and get right than I think. I buy more paint than I need, but not enough brushes, and I have to run out to the hardware store severl times for supplies. I save money over the profesional, but I just ate up my whole weekend. It still looks nice though and I'm happy with it.

It's the same thing with travel. You can spend 2 hours researching airfares to get the best price, or I can book it in 5 minutes for the same price. Once booked, if the fare drops my system checks and depending on the airline, I can get you a credit for the differance for your next trip. Don't like your seat assignment? My system will move you to the seat you want when/if it becomes available. And if you have a problem at the airport, you can call me to help you get it straightened out. Of course, booking it through me will cost you an extra $15 per ticket. But, you saved time and got good service in exchange. Some people think it's worth it, others prefer to do it themselves to save the fee, just like I chose to paint my room myself and not pay the painter in exchange to spending my weekend covered in paint.

On the other hand, some trips can be very complex and having a professional travel agent not only saves you time, but can ensure you have a smother trip and can cost you less money in the long run. Just like if I wanted a custom paint finish, I'd be better off hireing a professional. By the time I got it figured out my wall would look like a bad Picaso and I would have spent twice the money and time for my effort.

Anyway, in Travel there is room for both professionals and do-it-yourselfer's.

 

[DVC Sadie]

DH and I just paid $3500 for our will and trust to be set up. I guess this is the going rate around here. It's no small chunk of change, but something that will save DS in the long run.
I still don't understand how everything is under the trust etc. Bank accounts, safety deposit box, house all become part of the trust
can anyone explain in simple terms?
I love this thread!

Lynne, You have saved your ds both a lot of time and money in the long run by paying to get your will and trust done by an attorney.

The best gift my parents gave me was setting up a will and trusts which included charitable trusts. The paperwork would have been overwhelming. Between the CPA and the estate attorney everything went smoothly.

Even though people have paid for the will and trust depending on the size of the estate there will be more legal and accountant fees later whether or not they write themselves or not.

All asssets including safety deposit box, house and money in the bank can be all in a will or set up as trusts. You could have as many trusts designated for as many things as you want. There is only one will the latest dated will is the legal binding will no matter how many previous wills that were written.

HTHs, Sadie

 

[missypie]

Pay me now or pay me later. That's what we say around this law firm.

I will say this about people writing their own wills: It is so easy to mess up a will or trust, and the risk of liability is so great that none of the non-estate lawyers in the firm are even allowed to do wills. We are locked out of their forms in the computer data base.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Thats not everywhere. I got a bill once that included a $45 email response that was shorter than this sentence. In that bill, there was also "administrative" charges that included a $.37 stamp charge! Gee...I wonder if they had "stamps" included in their tax deductions at the end of the year? Double dipping?

I can't explain the email charge, but yes everytime we sent something out the postage was charged to the account. They were not used as tax deductions.

 

[mickeyfan2]

My lawyer (he was a great guy) told me his job was to keep me out of trouble not fix the trouble once I got into it.

 

[MouseJunkie]

Well said Chicago 526!

 

[ducklite]

I wonder how many people don't realize that they have some free legal benefits through their employer? DH and I didn't know about it for the ten years he's been with the company until a co-worker mentioned it. We probably would have saved well over $2000 of the years in RE closings and wills if we had known. We redid our wills when we moved to FL, new state=new EWT laws, plus our son was no longer a minor, so we had to take off guardianship language and change the way the trust worked. The basic wills (which now includes a simple trust so no extra "paperwork") was free through his employer sponsored legal plan benefits.

I used to work as a paralegal handling RE, BK, and EWT, but I still didn't feel qualified to represent myself in those matters. First, they tend to be emotional and it's easier to let a nuetral party handle things, and second, they are far better at catching the little things a "layperson" could easily miss.

And to the poster who said that laws are a matter of public record, yes, they are. But most of the public doesn't know what a "pocket part" is, and that lack of knowledge is what will muck things up every time and end up costing ten times more when you need an attorney to fix your mess.

All this said, when I took my local school district to court, I did so pro se. I spoke to half a dozen attorneys about the matter, and found that in every case I understood the laws (Federal and state) better than they did, and already had a full plate of case law research. In fact all but one told me flat out that I was better prepared than they ever could be and I'd be better representing myself in that particular court. The one who didn't was an ambulance chaser. (No offense meant to the ethical attoney's out there.)

Anne

 

[Nala56]

Wow, people really don't like attorneys My dh is an attorney, he's an asst. district attorney. He has been putting bad guys away for 16 years to make our community safer for everyone. And believe me, he doesn't make a lot of money for all of his hard work, but I'm very proud of him.

 

[Pop Daddy]

you have a gun with 2 bullets, beside you is Hitler, Charlie Manson and a lawyer, who do you shoot ?---------------------the lawyer twice

 

[Sleepy]

I think the "bottom feeder" attorneys that advertise on daytime TV give the legal profession a bad name. Morris Bart is one name that comes to mind. Ya know, the ones who encourage people to "stand up for their rights and get every dime they are owed" from that little fender bender they were involved in.

There is one in the area I used to live. His name is Lowell "The Hammer" Stanley. He always has this gruff look on his face and gives the same spill to "stand up for your rights and get what you you are entitled to." A few years ago he went a bit far with his "get angry at the insurance company" attitude. He said something like "what you need is a lawyer with brass b@lls." I could not believe that statement made it on tv. Did not take long for the commercial to stop airing. A local radio station made up a comical skit about this guy once. They called him Lowell "the hamster" Stanley. He was representing hamsters who had their rights stripped by uncaring owners who caged them and made them run in those hamster wheels.

 

[olena]

There is one in the area I used to live. His name is Lowell "The Hammer" Stanley. He always has this gruff look on his face and gives the same spill to "stand up for your rights and get what you you are entitled to." A few years ago he went a bit far with his "get angry at the insurance company" attitude. He said something like "what you need is a lawyer with brass b@lls." I could not believe that statement made it on tv. Did not take long for the commercial to stop airing. A local radio station made up a comical skit about this guy once. They called him Lowell "the hamster" Stanley. He was representing hamsters who had their rights stripped by uncaring owners who caged them and made them run in those hamster wheels.

 

[allie&mattsmom]

Wow, people really don't like attorneys My dh is an attorney, he's an asst. district attorney. He has been putting bad guys away for 16 years to make our community safer for everyone. And believe me, he doesn't make a lot of money for all of his hard work, but I'm very proud of him.

Yeah, my DH's an attorney as well. He's been a defense attorney for 16 years. I've read so many negative threads in the past about people's dislike for attorneys in general. I usually just ignore them. Frankly, you're gonna have your ethical/unethical attorneys just like you would in any other line of work. I really don't know why they get bashed more than others. My brother is an attorney as well. I am VERY proud of both my DH and my DB. Oh, and the people who do not care for attorneys seem to have a quick change of heart when, God forbid, they need one.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Wow, people really don't like attorneys My dh is an attorney, he's an asst. district attorney. He has been putting bad guys away for 16 years to make our community safer for everyone. And believe me, he doesn't make a lot of money for all of his hard work, but I'm very proud of him.

Nala56, Please tell your dh thank you for the great job ans sacrifice he is doing on behalf of the "people". (all people)

I am not talking about your dh when I poke a little fun at the lawyer who has adds running 24/7 about "One call thats all". We are talking about a whole different types of lawyers.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Yeah, my DH's an attorney as well. He's been a defense attorney for 16 years. I've read so many negative threads in the past about people's dislike for attorneys in general. I usually just ignore them. Frankly, you're gonna have your ethical/unethical attorneys just like you would in any other line of work. I really don't know why they get bashed more than others. My brother is an attorney as well. I am VERY proud of both my DH and my DB. Oh, and the people who do not care for attorneys seem to have a quick change of heart when, God forbid, they need one.

ITA! I have never needed a DA as of yet but I am grateful they are there in the event one is needed for sometimes bad things can happen to good people.

When someone said something very deragatory in regards to defense lawyers I called them on it. If it wasn't for defense attorneys then not one of the bad guys would go to jail.

 

[Nala56]

Yeah, my DH's an attorney as well. He's been a defense attorney for 16 years. I've read so many negative threads in the past about people's dislike for attorneys in general. I usually just ignore them. Frankly, you're gonna have your ethical/unethical attorneys just like you would in any other line of work. I really don't know why they get bashed more than others. My brother is an attorney as well. I am VERY proud of both my DH and my DB. Oh, and the people who do not care for attorneys seem to have a quick change of heart when, God forbid, they need one.

Amen to that! Our phone rings all the time when people think they may be in trouble, but because of dh job he can't offer defense advise.

 

[Nala56]

Nala56, Please tell your dh thank you for the great job ans sacrifice he is doing on behalf of the "people". (all people)

I am not talking about your dh when I poke a little fun at the lawyer who has adds running 24/7 about "One call thats all". We are talking about a whole different types of lawyers.

Thanks for your kind words. Just wanted to people to see another side of attorneys. Having said that, there will always be ambulance chasers trying to get rich from someones tragedy. I can't defend them.

 

[barkley]

one of the major issues i have with attnys. is that it is nearly impossible to find out information regarding the quality of their work. if my personal md wants me to see a specialist he will quickly refer me to or tell me to absolutly avoid certain doctors. with an attny. i am left to either go with someone that some professional i know may have limited experience with (my cpa can tell me who 'some' of his clients go to for financial matters, my insurance agent can tell me who 'some' of his clients have gone with for contractor problems...) but beyond that i am left to the local 'attny referal' system which is just a number operated by the local bar association that round robins referrals to their members.

i think i'm also overly cautious-i saw too many totaly inept and irreversable actions taken by overpriced/uneducated attorneys working in the fields of trusts and wills. working in social services i encountered countless disabled children/adults who truly needed medical and financial services-their parents had gone to supposed experts in the fields of trusts. the parents thought they were structuring wills and trusts such that their minor/adult children would have assetts available to meet their needs stuctured such that should the need arrise for medical assistance they would be eligible. in most cases these 'irrevocable trusts' were written such that either they completely excluded the person from medical assistance or locked up their finances such that they could'nt even draw from them for basic day to day needs (the ones that got to me were those that had a provision wherein the child/adult could only make withdrawls-with the court's approval-at the maximum standard of care provided by medicare-so some poor kid who realy needed specialized care could only get the bare bones they would have gotten on public assistance (despite having 100,0000's in a trust that would'nt pay out substantialy for decades). and there was nothing they could do about it-'irrevocable', and noone they could effectivly complain to (they could complain to the bar but it was'nt considered misconduct on the attny's part just because he was'nt up to date on current medicare laws).

 

[Ginamarie]

I work as an attorney on Long Island, which is generally an expensive place to live. In order to stay competitive, my rates are low, and I get a pretty good amount of work. There's no reason to charge $500 for a simple will, I agree. A lot of attorneys will charge that much, simply because they can.

However, I cannot stress the importance of letting an attorney draft your will rather than doing it yourself. In most states, it is completely insufficient to write your own will and just have it notorized. I'm not even saying this because people will fight over what's in the "will" afterwards. There are tax laws that will factor into the distribution of your property. There are also real estate laws that will affect any real estate that you own.

I would implore everyone to have a will drafted for themselves. You can usually find good and reasonable attorneys by contacting your local bar association, rather than just looking in the phonebook. If the rate you get seems to high, call around! Shopping for a good attorney is like shopping for anything else, different places have different prices.

Also, don't count out the places that refuse to quote over the phone. Personally, I hate quoting things over the phone because you really need to talk the people before knowing how complicated their will is going to be. A lot of people think they need the simplest will, but when you start to ask them questions about distributions, possible trusts, appointing powers of attorney, etc., they wind up wanting something different. So usually I'll give people a "range" of prices and then offer them a free consultation so they can figure out what they want and I can negotiate a price.

Not to mention, attorneys are encouraged to do pro bono work each year. Many times if I see a client who doesn't have much money I'll significantly lower my rates for them. I had a client come in a few months ago who could barely afford a will at all, so I offered to do her will for free. Of course I can't afford to do this for everyone, otherwise I'd be broke!

Not all attorneys are bad.. there are a couple of good eggs out there!!

 

[DisneyTarheel]

We were charged $375 by the lawyer we used for our last real estate trasaction. Again, we talked for a total of 10 minutes over the phone, and his paralegal emailed me a spreadsheet of the closing costs. That was it.

Did the attorney also search your title and certify it for the title insurance company?

 

[Sandy V.]

I'm an attorney and so is my husband. I completely empathize with the attorneys here and their spouses. There aren't many professions that get as maligned as attorneys do, especially when you are bombarded by some of the more obnoxious ones on television.

I don't practice (work for a legal publishing company instead), but my husband has his own firm. He left this morning before 7:00 a.m. to meet with a client, and won't be home until after 8:00 p.m. tonight as he meets with others this evening. I'll admit that this isn't a typical day, but we seem to have enough of these sprinkled around so that I don't even raise an eyebrow anymore when it happens. You just deal with it.

And as for pro bono and gratis work; my husband's Accounts Receivable ledger has a lot of $$$ that we know he'll never see.

One big difference I see between lawyers and doctors is that (in my opinion), lawyers do a far better job of policing themselves.

Lawyers report each other to disciplinary committees at the drop of a hat. On the other hand, try to imagine the worst medical malpractice case you can think of, and then try and find another doctor to testify in court to a jury that the original doctor, did, in fact, deviate from the standard of care and commit malpractice. It is VERY difficult to do so. Likewise for getting doctors disciplined for substance abuse, sexual abuse, etc. Doctors band together more, for better or worse. (It's not my intent to put down anyone in the medical profession AT ALL; just pointing out a huge difference in how they approach things.)

Lawyers certainly aren't perfect, but their job is a necessary one in our society. Unfortunately, emotions play a big role in how they're perceived, and when you need an attorney, it usually isn't for a happy occasion.