Need advice from ultra runners

[rubato]

I am debating doing the Brew to Brew which is a 44 miler from Kansas City to Lawrence. It's not until next April, so I have plenty of training time. My questions have to do with training. I'm wondering what my longest run should end up being? Also, can anything really prepare you for 44 miles in one day? I did Goofy this year, plus toured the parks for 6 days, but I just don't think it's the same thing. Any and all advice is appreciated.

 

[Sarah_Rose]

I have no advice, just



And now I've used up my smiley quota for today.

 

[SAHDad]

No experience-based advice I can give (yet) - my only ultras have been "baby" ultras - 50k races, which use essentially the same training programs and plans as a marathon. Ultras are a different beast, in general (both IME, and from what I have read) - plan on walking parts of it, and be prepared to take in actual food on the route, instead of trying to rely on Gu or gels.

I have a timed ultra in a month or so, and I am running a couple marathons between now and then as part of my training. It's an 8-hour event, so ideally, I should cover close to the 44 mile distance of your race. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[FFigawi]

In training for a 50-mile train race, my long runs ended up being about 4 hours on Saturday and another 2-3 hours on Sunday for nearly a month before the race. Unlike prepping for a marathon, where you're generally more focused on miles, getting ready for an ultra is all about time on your feet. You also need to learn to eat real food during a run. Your body is going to need more energy and power than you can get from eating goo for the 7-10 hours you'll be out there. Salted potatoes and peanut butter sandwiches are two of the most popular and effective foods, but you'll also see ramen noodles, pizza, flat coke, and all kinds of other stuff being offered at the aid stations.

You might want to check out the Marathon & Beyond web site. They might have some links to training plans for 50- and 100-mile races that you can use.

 

[scuba diver]

Welcome to the fun world of Ultras. While running Boston Marathon a few weeks ago I realized how much I enjoy ultras. I prefer to run far, not fast. I'm not fast so ultras are perfect for me.

John has some pretty good advice.

Learning to eat real food is very important, even though I did not eat much during my 24 hour run, 101 miles. I relied on Perpetuem from Hammer for most of my nutrition. I did supplement a few times with some real food when I got hungry. For a 44 miler you may not need any real food, it just depends on your nutrition plan. Nutrition is very important. Work out the details ahead of time because nothing is worst then being out on a trail and struggling with stomach issues.

For a mileage plan, I had to turn to a coach. I tried my own training for a few 50s and they did not go real well. I thoughtwith all the internet resources I should be able to figure it out. I was wrong.

My coach modified my typical week to include two 2 a days, one track work out, a tempo run, and then a long run on Saturday followed by a shorter run on Sunday. I even did a few three a days when my Ultra involved running a night time. The main goal was to train my legs to run when they were tired. Putting miles in was not important, running on tired legs was.

I also included several hours of biking on my off days to keep building the base without injury. I did get one day off a week which I really enjoyed.

Also you need to practice your running strategy. Some people will run straight through on ultras to 50 miles. I don't. I use a run/ walk as most people do. Practice this to find out what works best for you.

Practice too on the surface you will be running. If it is a trail, learn to run on trails. They are different, especially if they are technical. Pick up those feet.

Hope that helps.

 

[FFigawi]

Here are some good links and resources for you.

Ultra Running Resource
Ultra Running magazine
Marathon & Beyond magazine

 

[rubato]

Thanks for all the advice. I will research those links later tonight, when I get a chance. I guess nutrition will have to play a bigger role. I hadn't really thought about the amount of time I will be running, but it's going to be a long time. All I focused on was running from one brewery to another! I ate some licorice and Skittles during Goofy, but that was it, and those two things didn't sit well. So, when I start training, I'll need to work on that. Peanut butter sandwiches are easily transported, so that may be what I work with.

 

[FFigawi]

Nutrition is key to making sure you have a good run. Definitely give salted potatoes a try. Boil them, cool them, cut them into small pieces, and dip them in salt. Great carbs with salt to keep you from getting dehydrated. Also, as funny as it sounds, a lot of ultra runners drink Ensure or other similar drinks. Easy to digest and full of good things.

 

[SAHDad]

Nutrition is key to making sure you have a good run. Definitely give salted potatoes a try. Boil them, cool them, cut them into small pieces, and dip them in salt. Great carbs with salt to keep you from getting dehydrated. Also, as funny as it sounds, a lot of ultra runners drink Ensure or other similar drinks. Easy to digest and full of good things.

I use the high-protein Boost after runs, and it sits fairly well as a pre-race food. I have never tried it during a run, but you will definitely want to experiment. And, it does seem that ultras have more variety - I know what sits well and what does not for a marathon, but for the two 50k races I have done, food & I had very different relationships at each. Cookies were fine one time, and nearly gave me a DNF the other. I've heard that the ability to adapt and persevere matters more in an ultra than anything else.

Oh - and BTW, in an ultra, if you are feeling great, strong and in high spirits - don't worry, it will pass.

 

[ironz]

If Sue2 checks the boards, she is a very experienced ultra runner....amazing! I'll ping her for ya. She might have something to add to this discussion. The most 'ultra' I get is Goofy.

 

[stitchfan18]

I am debating doing the Brew to Brew which is a 44 miler from Kansas City to Lawrence. It's not until next April, so I have plenty of training time. My questions have to do with training. I'm wondering what my longest run should end up being? Also, can anything really prepare you for 44 miles in one day? I did Goofy this year, plus toured the parks for 6 days, but I just don't think it's the same thing. Any and all advice is appreciated.

I don't have any ultra advice, I was just excited that someone posted about a race in my neck of the woods! I would be running relay if I did B to B. Mad props to those who can run all 44 miles by themselves! I ran a 1/2 the day before B to B this year, and overheard several people at the finish talking about running B to B the following day as well! Good luck with training!

 

[ironz]

I don't have any ultra advice, I was just excited that someone posted about a race in my neck of the woods! I would be running relay if I did B to B. Mad props to those who can run all 44 miles by themselves! I ran a 1/2 the day before B to B this year, and overheard several people at the finish talking about running B to B the following day as well! Good luck with training!

I like your neck of the woods! Have done the Kansas 70.3 triathlon 3 times. Love that area!!

OP...just so you know...Kansas isn't flat!

 

[sue2]

I totally agree with what's been said:

- figure out how to get calories in. For up to 40 miles or so I plan on using just Infinit and nibble on whatever real food appeals to me. For longer stuff I need real food. I always crave salty/crunchy rather than sweet...but everyone is different. You should be able to process more fat and protein with the lesser effort.

- prevent blisters from the start (Body Glide, taping chronic spots, even changing socks and shoes if need be)

- learn to walk with purpose and when you're hurting

- figure out the logistics of where the water stops are, if you'll need drop bags, etc. Every race is different as far as carrying water, fuel and supplies.

- relax...and let the distance unfold as you move forward. The biggest lesson I learned was to ignore the final distance...and to only be concerned about where I am at that moment (if that makes sense). If you take care of yourself "here" and keep moving you will eventually end up "there"

- I'd run several 30 milers to train for a 44 miler and maybe try to increase the length of your weekday runs a smidge. If you can find a fun 50K to do before the race it would be very helpful, I think.

Good luck and enjoy! Please feel free to PM me.

 

[rubato]

Thanks to everyone for their advice. I'm just starting to look into all of this, and, since I'm coming from a place of no experience, it's great to have all you veterans.

John, I'll definitely try the salted potatoes. I'm a starch lover anyway, so any excuse.

SAHDad, Love the quote!

ironz, Yes, Kansas is not flat! When I trained for Goofy, I was running hills everyday. Then, I get to Florida, and it seemed like a breeze.

Sue2, Thanks for the info. I hadn't thought about all the logistics of getting my gear and food to different parts of the course. Just assumed I'd carry it all, but how can I do that? And, I'll definitely want to have extra shoes and socks just in case.

stitchfan18, I noticed your avatar and figured you were from around here. I will actually be running home, since I just moved from Lawrence 3 years ago to Shawnee. Lived there for 14 years and loved it. I think I have my son talked into going to KU in 7 years, when he is ready for college.

 

[rubato]

Well, I think I'm going to do this run. I got my 16 week training plan all ironed out today. But, it starts with the first week at a much higher mileage than I'm at now. Luckily, I have plenty of time to work up to it. I may also do a marathon in October as part of my training. I'm starting to get really excited about this. I was looking at last year's results and there were less than 20 solo women in this event. Not many more men. It's mostly teams. The run is on the shoulder of roads, and on gravel, so I need to start training on a different surface than I'm used to. I will have to beg my hubby to be my support vehicle driver, since he's not the biggest fan of the time involved in this. It's feasible that I can get it done in 8 hours, but never having run this far, there's no telling what can happen. One good thing, I get a 40 minute deduction from my finishing time for being old!

I'm sure, as things come up, I will have lots more questions!

 

[ultramickeymouse]

Lots of great advice for an Ultra newbie!

Main difference in Ultras and marathons is food at the aid stations. Having done many in the past and now an RD of Ultra's, they aid stations contain tons of food and just not beverages. Usually great food to eat is potatoes(and salt) and P&J's. Good way to get carbs and protein/fat in outside of gels. Your stomach can rebel after a while of them. Plus you want some real food after awhile. Aid Stations also contain sugar, sweet, and salty items.

Good luck and welcome to the Ultra world!