need advice especially from school employees

[mjkacmom]

Honestly, dd13 is an straight A honor student, and there is no way she would catch up after missing 10 days. She has to go in early if I take her out a couple of hours early! I don't know if she would pass 8th grade. Teachers don't have to let them make up the work, and she'd be missing content - math alone would be a nightmare. Our schools will not give work ahead of time.

 

[lovetoscrap]

The reason that the schools set a strict attendance policy of how many days can be missed is strictly FINANCIAL! They don't give a rat's behind how your child is doing in their classes. They lose money for every day your child is out of school. The district loses money. Your child = $$$ , plain and simple.

So to make sure they can cover their budget they put in place a whole lot of scare tactics-- truancy officers, threat of retention, no credit for assignments etc. If they truly cared about the kids and thier educational needs they would provide the work needed before or after an absence and allow them to make it up at full credit. They would realize that as long as the kids have passing grades then there is no reason to retain them. ( in my district parents have the right to overrule a retention decision)

I was in a classroom with a kid that was a chronic truancy problem. He refused to come to school and mom wouldn't make him. The schools know good and well which kids are really truancy problems and which ones have involved parents that have education at the top of the priority list. When they start threatening with these types of consequenses is when I think parents need to stand up for their rights to actually be parents and make the decisions for their kids, and not let the schools bully them.

Now keep in mind that I was a public school teacher, am currently a sub for our district, and am very active in the PTA. I support the public schools and public education. But my family and children are my top priority. And I also did homeschool for several years and wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I felt I had to.

Every family has to decide for themselves what they are willing to put up with in order for their kids to miss school. Me, I would do it in a heartbeat, tell the school exactly what I did in that note and be done with it.

 

[crashbb]

Your kids may not be bad students and you may not feel that you have to ask permission to take your children out of school (and I don't disagree with you), but you are asking their teachers to take on a fair bit of extra work so that you can have your vacation.

First, you are asking them to prepare packages of work for your kids (which they are going to have to mark separately from the work the other students will be doing while your kids are away) and then you are expecting the teachers to stay after school with your kids so that your kids can get caught up (unless the school already has an after school program?).

Take your kids out of school if you want to, but don't lie about it and don't expect the teachers to do extra work to make it easier for your kids.

 

[2Kds2K9]

Our county uses a program called "Blackboard". Each night the teachers are suppose to post what was done at school that day and many also post notes along with handouts that can be printed out. This is great when a child misses school as they don't end up too far behind.

Also, the county is pushing all teachers to use this on a daily basis in the event they close due to swine flu. This way, kids can still keep up. Some of the teachers are using textbooks that are online as well.

This could be an option if it's available to you.

Good luck. I'm on the team of "once in a lifetime opportunity".

 

[Mickey's Minion]

The reason that the schools set a strict attendance policy of how many days can be missed is strictly FINANCIAL! They don't give a rat's behind how your child is doing in their classes. They lose money for every day your child is out of school. The district loses money. Your child = $$$ , plain and simple.

So to make sure they can cover their budget they put in place a whole lot of scare tactics-- truancy officers, threat of retention, no credit for assignments etc. If they truly cared about the kids and thier educational needs they would provide the work needed before or after an absence and allow them to make it up at full credit. They would realize that as long as the kids have passing grades then there is no reason to retain them. ( in my district parents have the right to overrule a retention decision)

I was in a classroom with a kid that was a chronic truancy problem. He refused to come to school and mom wouldn't make him. The schools know good and well which kids are really truancy problems and which ones have involved parents that have education at the top of the priority list. When they start threatening with these types of consequenses is when I think parents need to stand up for their rights to actually be parents and make the decisions for their kids, and not let the schools bully them.

Now keep in mind that I was a public school teacher, am currently a sub for our district, and am very active in the PTA. I support the public schools and public education. But my family and children are my top priority. And I also did homeschool for several years and wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I felt I had to.

Every family has to decide for themselves what they are willing to put up with in order for their kids to miss school. Me, I would do it in a heartbeat, tell the school exactly what I did in that note and be done with it.

Not everywhere. Our district only does counts during a specified time of year. For 3 weeks they have to turn in attendance records, so attendance is highly encouraged those weeks. That attendance record is what determines funding. Attendance during other times of the year has no bearing on funding levels. So, our strict attendance policies are not only for financial reasons.

I agree that the final decision is the OP's to make. However, she does need to know what the possible consequences could be and whether she is comfortable accepting those consequences.

But you can't have your cake and eat it too. By making the decision that your kids are your kids, you cannot then also expect teachers to go above and beyond to help the children catch up, such as remaining after school "a lot". That doesn't make sense - the OP can take family time, but then expects teachers to take time away from their private lives to help out. Or to spend hours putting together 2 weeks of work for their child.

If there are established after school help hours, then that is great. If there is a district policy on providing work packets, that is great.

But the OP needs to find out the policies and then decide for herself if the consequences are worth it to her. Only she can determine that.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I didn't say they were "bad" students, I said they weren't great students, because that's what you said--they're not straight-A students. Which tells me, they have to put work and effort into their grades--and shouldn't be missing large amounts of school. You have no idea if they'll wind up missing more days due to being sick some time in the next several months. FTR, I got a letter for my DD in 4th grade, when she missed 10 days total (5 for vacation, 5 for illness).

I think you're making a foolish choice and your children are the ones who will wind up paying the price for it. But hey, you're the one who has to look them in the eye and say, "Sorry, Honey, that you have to repeat 8th grade, but wasn't Hawaii a blast?"

 

[Rora]

I agree 100% with lovetoscrap's post!!

Good luck OP!

EDIT: Just wanted to say that I'm a teacher and I'm *usually* okay with parents taking kids out. I mean, I want to do the same when I have kids. Plus, everyone needs a break sometimes!

 

[Nancyg56]

I'd go and deal with any consequences, even if it meant all zeros for everything missed and/or the possibility of repeating a grade. If the school district decided that repeating a grade was necessary, I would take my kids out and homeschool. I can tell you that I don't remember what did for two weeks in either 6th or 8th grade, but I would remember, in great detail, a 2 week trip to Hawaii. There is more to learning than just school and classroom work.

Asking a child to repeat a grade in order to take a trip is a huge consequence for the child. I am not sure a 13 or 14 YO would be happy with that event.

I think the PP's who suggested that you work with the school to determine what the policy is and how your children could make up work are giving good advice. If you are comfortable with the plan and the kids can catch up in a reasonable amount of time then go for it!

We are in similar situation, we have booked a trip in April during my DGD's vacation. We are not comfortable taking her out if school now that she is in 3rd grade. The school board has decided that if the kids lose too much time for snow days the days will be removed from April vacation. DD told us she would deal with it if that happens but DH is not a fan of kids missing school so we will see. Hoping for a mild winter!

 

[tigercat]

Wow if anyone had of told me that I couldn't have taken my kids out for a vacation that really ends up being more educational than being in school I would have told them to go blow. But I never had that problem. I have taken my dgrdd's away, and my dd has taken the same kids away. They have remembered what they did on those vacations and the family time was invaluable. However, the work that was done??? Not remembered. Your school system is really wonked.
tigercat

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

A 2 week trip to Hawaii would not be excused at my 6th and 8th grader's private school. At best, our school would give zeros for all assigments during the vacation. I suspect our school might even tell you to find a new school.

Our local public school would require your kids to repeat the grade as they would exceed their allowable unexcused absences. There's no way a trip to Hawaii would be excused even if it's a business trip.

This would be grounds for retention in our public school system, too, probably with a visit from CPS and possible court date for the parents. Fine or jail time would probably be considered.

I'm not saying it's right, in fact it really ticks me off. But to me, not worth the hassle here. I stopped taking kids out of school when my DS11 entered middle school. Before that it was never more than 2 days, and only if they had really good attendence/grades.

 

[Pembo]

Go on your trip. Enjoy yourselves. The teachers may not give you work BEFORE you leave...most likely you will get it after. What an awesome opportunity....

And for those who districts forbid it...I'd pull my kids out, say I was homeschooling and then re-enroll. There's always a way around it.

 

[kidzmom3]

I know you didn't ask for advice on if you should do it. But, I just want to share my story. We took our kids out for a family vacation. Once in a lifetime, both sets of grandparents. They missed 8 days of school. Those vacation memories will last a lifetime.

As will the fact that 2 of them failed 3 classes that semester. That 2 of them got c's for the year when they had always been straight a students. That 1 of them cried, daily for a week because she had so much work to catch up on, that in the end didn't count towards anything (if I had known that it wouldn't count, we wouldn't have stressed out, but how else would they have learned the lessons.) I will also remember forever, my youngest daughter saying to me "please don't ever take me out of school for vacation, its not worth it"

I was on work vacation, they were not.

 

[RitaE]

Our public schools here put a stop to the un-enroll and claim homeschooling for vacation ... re-enroll on return trick by automatically sending students who re-enroll late in the District (Jr High & High School) at the Alternative Campus -- with the drug pushers, gang members, and other serious disciplinary issue kids. I'd keep my kids home for the semester and actually Homeschool them before I'd ever allow them to go there. Maybe that's something the OP should consider if Hawaii is that important to her.

You'll just have to find out your District's policy OP and live with the consequences. No educator is going to be all that thrilled to find out the child is missing 10 days of classes for a vacation. Call it money, call it concern over standardized tests, or call it just being a control freak - it is what it is. There isn't much you can embellish that will change their minds.

best of luck.

 

[Teacher03]

I'm a third grade teacher so a little younger than your children....my thoughts are if this is a once in a lifetime trip, then I would take the trip. But please realize that there are going to be somethings your kids will miss in school that cannot be made up. Tell the school the truth as soon as possible. We are not permitted to give out work ahead of time, but I wouldn't do it regardless. In my experience, no one does it anyways! I would also not stay after school to help catch your child up, but I would try to fill in the blanks as much as I could.

I always shake my head when people say "They didn't have much make up work so they didn't miss anything anyways." Teachable moments and lessons happen in the classroom everyday; they cannot be duplicated. If school was just worksheets, my job would be alot easier.

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

My biggest concern would be math. I missed about 2 weeks of key instruction in math due to moving and switching schools (the school we moved to was further ahead) and it had lasting consequences (plus ruined my confidence).

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Yes, finances are tied to attendance and by removing your kids you are essentially taking money away from the school. That said, I would like to address Love2Scrap's comment that we don't care.

I have several kids who have missed a lot of school already. As Love2Scrap so eloquently put it, I don't give a rat's behind- about the money. Hell, I have already spent most of the money from my second job on things for my classroom because I have no budget to speak of. What I do care about is how far behind the kids are when they come back. It's hard enough to catch them up after one or two missed days. I couldn't imagine two weeks.

Regardless of what people here think, we really do care about your kids and their education. We wouldn't do this job if we didn't. And it really burns my cookies when people talk about the only reason we care about truancy is because of money.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but I just came back from a very bad home visit with one of my families. I see how much all of us have tried to do with that family (and how much of it has come out of my own money) and to come here and see people saying that we don't care about the kids' education, only the money is a pretty tough pill to swallow. Most teachers do a lot behind the scenes for your kids you will never know about. And every teacher at my school genuinely cares about the kids when they are gone and worries greatly about how to make sure that they don't fall behind. Never once have I heard even our principal make one comment about money when a kid is absent for a long period of time. It's always concern over the well being and academic progress of that child.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I do not think there is anything wrong with taking the kids for vacation (I missed 2-3 weeks every year all the way through high school for vacations and my kids will miss two weeks here in a month for a trip planned back when they were still homeschooled and we did not know we were moving to a place where they would have to attend school--it was booked and paid for before we moved and involves many other people so we were able to get a pass to go).
I DO think it is wrong to expect the teacheres to get together a package ahead of time (or even keep one to give to your kids when they return). It is totally unfair to expect the teachers to do so much extra work so you can vacation AND it sends the message to your children that the teachers are the ones responsible for your child learning--instead of sending the message that ultimately the child is responsible for his or her own learning. I suggest you do this (and propose to the school you will in your letter--maybe they will take more kindly to the trip if they see you are serious about the learning and not wanting to inconvvience them). It's what my kids (ages 10 and 12 and in grades 5 and 8) will be doing:

Have the kids find a friend in each class to write down what topic is covered each day and what book work is assigned. Also give each friend a folder marked with your child's name anad have the friend get extras of every handout to put in the folder. Ask the friend to email the topics and bookwork assignments each evening (we will email asking for it so the friends are not the ones expected to remember). We plan to bring home some gifts for the friends who are willing to take the time to do this. We have also talked to the kids about choosing RESPONSIBLE people to do this (not always their best buddies).
Have the kids take along text books and basic supplies. They can check their email each day and keep up with reading, and book work that way. The internet has great websites for teaching math concepts, etc. if a topic throws them. We will be getting home on a Saturday midday and the kids plan to get the folders of handouts and get a good chunk of them done on Sunday before school starts and then catch up on the rest as quickly as possible.

We are prepared to hire a tutor, etc if need be to help them catch up upon return (I do not expect such problems but you never know). WE DO NOT EXPECT THE SCHOOL TO BE IN ANY WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR HELPING OUR CHILDREN CATCH UP WHEN WE CHOOSE TO TAKE THEM OUT FOR VACATION beyond allowing them to turn in work upon return and make up test/quizzes if needed (the things we flat out cannot do sooner).
ETA: The kids also plan to email in assigments "on time" as much as possible to the teachers who like to works with email anyway.

 

[daisyduck123]

1st grade teacher chiming in

I say, "Go on your trip". I have pulled my own kids (DD15-11th grade & DS11 - 6th grade) out every year for anywhere from 5-11 school days each year without any trouble.

**Oh, and btw...I pull myself out as well

 

[Scurvy]

But you can't have your cake and eat it too. By making the decision that your kids are your kids, you cannot then also expect teachers to go above and beyond to help the children catch up, such as remaining after school "a lot". That doesn't make sense - the OP can take family time, but then expects teachers to take time away from their private lives to help out. Or to spend hours putting together 2 weeks of work for their child.

If there are established after school help hours, then that is great. If there is a district policy on providing work packets, that is great.

But the OP needs to find out the policies and then decide for herself if the consequences are worth it to her. Only she can determine that.

I agree completely with this! OP, you need to find out what the school/district policy is. Then you should be prepared to accept whatever the consequences may be. I have taken my son out of school for trips in the past. This is the last year when policy will permit him to miss school for a vacation without serious consequences, but I still would not take him out for 2 weeks. He is in 8th grade and I feel that he would fall too far behind if he were to miss that much school.

These are your children, and ultimately you are the one who will have to decide if the trip is worth the consequences that your children will face. However, you also need to consider how your children will feel. Will they think it's worth going on the trip if they have to repeat their current grades or if they end up with failing grades for that portion of the year? Hopefully those won't really be things they'd have to deal with, but you should check to be sure because in my district they would not be allowed to make up the work they missed and you would be visited by CPS and possibly have to go to court. As another poster mentioned, if the consequences will be that severe and you are still determined to go on the trip maybe you really should consider homeschooling. They are your children but once you enroll them in school you are bound by the rules and policies of the school. If you were to homeschool then those rules would no longer apply to your children.

If you do choose to go, tell the teachers the truth. Usually they can tell when someone is trying to embellish and it will just make them less sympathetic rather than more sympathetic. And as others have said, please don't expect the teachers to spend their time doing more work to help your children catch up. They can be counted on to follow the school's policy on make-up work, but should not be expected to give up their free time to stay after school because you chose to take a vacation.

Wow if anyone had of told me that I couldn't have taken my kids out for a vacation that really ends up being more educational than being in school I would have told them to go blow. But I never had that problem. I have taken my dgrdd's away, and my dd has taken the same kids away. They have remembered what they did on those vacations and the family time was invaluable. However, the work that was done??? Not remembered. Your school system is really wonked.
tigercat

This sort of policy is becoming the norm rather than the exception, unfortunately. And trust me, the teachers don't love it either, but they really have no choice. These policies are rarely something that an individual school would choose to enforce if they didn't have to. Thanks to "No child left behind" there are all sorts of policies that schools didn't use to have to deal with, and if schools don't fulfill the requirements of NCLB they will lose funding. Teachers already have to buy many of their supplies out of their own pockets; schools can't afford to lose any of the the funding that they currently get.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Yes, finances are tied to attendance and by removing your kids you are essentially taking money away from the school. That said, I would like to address Love2Scrap's comment that we don't care.

There is another poster with the username Love2Scrap as you spelled it so this is confusing -- I am lovetoscrap or LTS. I don't want the other one getting "blamed" for a thread she hasn't even posted on!

I have several kids who have missed a lot of school already. As Love2Scrap so eloquently put it, I don't give a rat's behind- about the money. Hell, I have already spent most of the money from my second job on things for my classroom because I have no budget to speak of. What I do care about is how far behind the kids are when they come back. It's hard enough to catch them up after one or two missed days. I couldn't imagine two weeks.

Regardless of what people here think, we really do care about your kids and their education. We wouldn't do this job if we didn't. And it really burns my cookies when people talk about the only reason we care about truancy is because of money.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but I just came back from a very bad home visit with one of my families. I see how much all of us have tried to do with that family (and how much of it has come out of my own money) and to come here and see people saying that we don't care about the kids' education, only the money is a pretty tough pill to swallow. Most teachers do a lot behind the scenes for your kids you will never know about. And every teacher at my school genuinely cares about the kids when they are gone and worries greatly about how to make sure that they don't fall behind. Never once have I heard even our principal make one comment about money when a kid is absent for a long period of time. It's always concern over the well being and academic progress of that child.

I should have been clearer in my post. I was NOT referring to the teachers. I was referring to the administrator and bureaucrats that make cut and dried rules regarding our kids and in this case school attendance. I have worked in the schools. I have had kids go on vacation, I have had one that was a true truancy issue. My class "won" the no absences award one quarter and I was congratulated. For what? I didn't do anything. But it was drilled through our heads that we had to have those kids in school because we were losing money when they were gone.

I absolutely believe that the teachers care 100% about their kids succeeding in school and would do all they can to help out. I haven't met a teacher yet that didn't go above and beyond. But you aren't the one that made the number of absences rule. You aren't the one that says that even though the child passed all their classes they have to be retained because they went on a vacation. In fact you are probably the one that would be frustrated by a district that mandates you must give a sweet hardworking kid all Zeros for work they missed when you know they would make it up and that they understand all the material.

My issue is with the administrators and School Boards that make one blanket rule and expect it to be applied even when each situation is different. We have just seen recently the Zero Tolerance for weapons rules completely misapplied in 2 cases. Yes there has to be rules, but they need to be able to use common sense when applying the rules.


One example: When DD was in Kindergarten there was a boy in her class who kept getting sick. He ended up missing 10 days of school by the Spring. School rules, no sending a child with a fever until it has been clear for 24 hours. No sending a child with "tummy issues" until they have been clear for 24 hours. So if he was sick one day, he missed 2 days. For several of these absences he got sick at school and was called to pick him up. Mom was called into a meeting with the Admin, the district truancy officer etc... She was put on formal notice that her child could not miss any more days of school or they would start court proceedings against her--there was no distinction between excused and unexcused, it was 10 days total. The did the whole threats of CPS and jail etc... She left the meeting rattled and upset. And she saw she had a call on her cell phone. It was the school nurse calling to tell her that her son was in her office with a 100.2 fever and she had to come get him!!!!

Now where is the common sense in applying the blanket policy here?