my friend wants me to help her with a touchy situation

[Dznypal]

in oct my friends hubby had a stroke--things still arent going good with him--he is in care facility my friend wants to get him home but he needs to be more mobile--he still cant even stand by himself

anyways heres the situation--my friend has an elder care lawyer working for her trying to get him on medicaid--this is what the lawyer said she can do to save their assets until he gets on medicaid

she asked us if we would be willing --to have her make a "loan" to us--we would deposit it in our bank account and then pay the loan back to her and she would put it in a new account thats just in her name so they nursing home cant get it cause its in her name ( at least this is the way she makes it sound like it goes)

this sound very fishy to us--first all I know in order to save assets parents can "gift" there kids money but this has to be done 7 years before the parents go into a nursing home also the nursing home knows the amount of money they have cause there usually financial papers that need to be brought in ( at least when we put my mom in a assisted living we had to have all of her assets to bring in)

another red flag is she asked her sister--which she was going to do--all of a sudden her sister she couldnt take off of work for a day to get all the papers in order--several red flags here--sisters husband is a retired bank president--also sister owns a day care--which her daughter also works at--her daughter has taken over the day care when her mom is on vacation or sick--so she could take over that day--sister also just got back from Vegas and her daughter ran the day care for four days

to us it looks like now the sister and her husband dont think this is a good idea--

then she was going to do this arangement with her son whos nothing but trouble--if she did that that money somehow would be gone

so now she asked us--I dont know what to tell her--we really dont want to get involved in this--it just seems so risky

if its this easy to save your assets when your spouse needs to go into a care facility everyone would be doing it

just wondering if any of you have heard of anything like this and how would you put it to your best friend--weve been friends since high school and were early 60's now so weve been through a lot together

thanks

 

[L&Lfan]

No way would I get involved in that way and if that causes the friendship to end, so be it.

 

[SC Minnie]

Trust your instincts on this one.

 

[antmaril]

I would tell your friend that you just can’t be involved. Quite honestly, it sounds like fraud. You certainly don’t want to get into trouble. There are laws governing all of this. She cannot “hide” money from Medicaid.

Just say “no.”

 

[Pea-n-Me]

in oct my friends hubby had a stroke--things still arent going good with him--he is in care facility my friend wants to get him home but he needs to be more mobile--he still cant even stand by himself

anyways heres the situation--my friend has an elder care lawyer working for her trying to get him on medicaid--this is what the lawyer said she can do to save their assets until he gets on medicaid

she asked us if we would be willing --to have her make a "loan" to us--we would deposit it in our bank account and then pay the loan back to her and she would put it in a new account thats just in her name so they nursing home cant get it cause its in her name ( at least this is the way she makes it sound like it goes)

this sound very fishy to us--first all I know in order to save assets parents can "gift" there kids money but this has to be done 7 years before the parents go into a nursing home also the nursing home knows the amount of money they have cause there usually financial papers that need to be brought in ( at least when we put my mom in a assisted living we had to have all of her assets to bring in)

another red flag is she asked her sister--which she was going to do--all of a sudden her sister she couldnt take off of work for a day to get all the papers in order--several red flags here--sisters husband is a retired bank president--also sister owns a day care--which her daughter also works at--her daughter has taken over the day care when her mom is on vacation or sick--so she could take over that day--sister also just got back from Vegas and her daughter ran the day care for four days

to us it looks like now the sister and her husband dont think this is a good idea--

then she was going to do this arangement with her son whos nothing but trouble--if she did that that money somehow would be gone

so now she asked us--I dont know what to tell her--we really dont want to get involved in this--it just seems so risky

if its this easy to save your assets when your spouse needs to go into a care facility everyone would be doing it

just wondering if any of you have heard of anything like this and how would you put it to your best friend--weve been friends since high school and were early 60's now so weve been through a lot together

thanks

I'm pretty sure this likely falls under, "No good deed goes unpunished"!

I would have to say sorry, but I just don't feel comfortable with it.

 

[gwynne]

Sadly, it sounds like your friend is asking you to participate in fraud. This has to be a firm no. By saying no you are protecting both you and your friend from legal consequences.

 

[Tallis]

Totally medicaid fraud. No way would I participate in that! You could go to jail. I don't even see how she thinks she can later put the money in an account just in her name. If they are married, it will still be counted as his asset.

He can still get medicaid legally, it will just be share-of-cost based on their income/assets. They will just have to pay a determined amount each year before his medicaid starts paying for things. If they don't have the money, they wouldn't have to do this. Since they DO have the money, they need to do things legally and not expect the state to pay for 100% of something they can afford themselves.

 

[bdcp]

She needs to not use that lawyer. He's telling her to break the law. I know some people do it, but no way would I get involved in that. If she gets caught, she would be in big trouble as would you. The lawyer on the other hand could just say he never said to do that. Tell her you aren't comfortable doing that and make sure she knows it's not legal.

 

[Lynne M]

No no no... my parents were told by their lawyer and the senior communities they applied to that you never, ever, ever try to hide money from Medicaid. Bad things happen if you do. I know they look back through 5 years of your financial transactions when you apply, and they’d spot that fake loan in a second. If they catch her transferring money to conceal it, I’m pretty sure they’d be blacklisted from Medicaid for several years. I don’t know if there would be consequences for you if you participate in this scheme of hers, but I wouldn’t take the chance.

I know there are legitimate ways to protect some of your assets in this situation, but this doesn’t sound legit to me. I’d stay far, far away from it.

People think they’re being clever, pulling this stuff, but agencies like Medicaid have seen every scam you could ever dream up, many times over. She’s not going to fool them.

 

[OKW8297]

First of all, it’s fraud. Secondly, she will get caught.
Don’t do it!

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

in oct my friends hubby had a stroke--things still arent going good with him--he is in care facility my friend wants to get him home but he needs to be more mobile--he still cant even stand by himself

anyways heres the situation--my friend has an elder care lawyer working for her trying to get him on medicaid--this is what the lawyer said she can do to save their assets until he gets on medicaid

she asked us if we would be willing --to have her make a "loan" to us--we would deposit it in our bank account and then pay the loan back to her and she would put it in a new account thats just in her name so they nursing home cant get it cause its in her name ( at least this is the way she makes it sound like it goes)

this sound very fishy to us--first all I know in order to save assets parents can "gift" there kids money but this has to be done 7 years before the parents go into a nursing home also the nursing home knows the amount of money they have cause there usually financial papers that need to be brought in ( at least when we put my mom in a assisted living we had to have all of her assets to bring in)

another red flag is she asked her sister--which she was going to do--all of a sudden her sister she couldnt take off of work for a day to get all the papers in order--several red flags here--sisters husband is a retired bank president--also sister owns a day care--which her daughter also works at--her daughter has taken over the day care when her mom is on vacation or sick--so she could take over that day--sister also just got back from Vegas and her daughter ran the day care for four days

to us it looks like now the sister and her husband dont think this is a good idea--

then she was going to do this arangement with her son whos nothing but trouble--if she did that that money somehow would be gone

so now she asked us--I dont know what to tell her--we really dont want to get involved in this--it just seems so risky

if its this easy to save your assets when your spouse needs to go into a care facility everyone would be doing it

just wondering if any of you have heard of anything like this and how would you put it to your best friend--weve been friends since high school and were early 60's now so weve been through a lot together

thanks

Won't work. There's a back trace on all assets. Besides, the spouse is allowed to keep a certain amount of assets and have a certain amount of income anyway.

No way would I participate in this scheme.

 

[barkley]

i used to supervise a medicaid eligibility unit-DO NOT DO IT.

the 'look back' period of time is just that-and we did so prudently. seeing that someone happened to make a loan that just so happened during the time frame they wanted to create eligibility for their spouse would have raised major red flags. knowingly participating in welfare fraud is still welfare fraud and can be prosecuted.

there are many entirely legal ways to shelter income/assets within a marriage so that one spouse is eligible. a lawyer who tells someone to do something like this IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED.

i would tell my friend 'NO'. she needs no explanation of why-she's likely already heard it from everyone else she's asked to help her defraud the program.

 

[Tallis]

a lawyer who tells someone to do something like this IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED.

I thought the same thing. And the money she used to pay this shady lawyer could have been used towards their share of cost.

 

[Dznypal]

my DH and myself already talked this over and there is no way we would get involved in this she seems to think that if the money just disappeared that its just gone and medicaid wont say anything she even said she was going to take money out of the bank and just keep it at home--I told her theres already a paper trail on that money like when she cashed a check she even said today that when she buys grociers shes going to write out the check for more then the grociers were and then just keep the money at home saying that well no one knows if it was all for groceries or cash thanks for all great advice

this just didnt seem right at all--espeically when her sister who husband was a banker backed out saying she couldnt take off of work

like I said I know of the gifting but that has to be 7 years before you need a nursing home

I never heard of this doing a loan deal sounded fishy and if it was this easy everyone would do it

so rest assured we werent going to do this with her--I like to help her out if I can but not this time

thanks again all

 

[dish rag]

Run

 

[tasha99]

I question whether a lawyer really told her that or whether she came up with it. Sounds like fraud to me, and I think any lawyer advising that would risk disbarment. I wouldn't do it.

 

[barkley]

I thought the same thing. And the money she used to pay this shady lawyer could have been used towards their share of cost.

absolutly, and there are so many exempt types of income and assets it's amazing. the state i supervised in offered the opportunity for people to come in, fill out an application without actually applying so that we could explain exactly what the exemptions were AND how to shelter other assets.

i hope her 'lawyer' at least advised her to apply for social security disability for her dh. if he had his strokes in october he's met the 6 month disabled criteria so he could be collecting a check and get the clock ticking on the 2 year waiting period for medicare.

 

[Allison]

Do you really need to ask if this is shady? Run.

 

[Dznypal]

I figured it was shady--just bascially wondered if anyone else ever heard of doing this loan deal

also just curious what is the asset limit they can have

for the record her DH is77 so he already gets SS and is one medicare--

thanks for the suggestion of SS disability

my friend never mentioned that I wonder if she even thought of it--Ill let her know

 

[Mirielle]

I question whether a lawyer really told her that or whether she came up with it. Sounds like fraud to me, and I think any lawyer advising that would risk disbarment. I wouldn't do it.

I was going to say the very same thing. Sounds like something the friend cooked up and is willing to put the OP in the middle of. The only attorney I could imagine suggesting such a thing would be way past ignorant and very unethical.