Mr Grumpy's Vacation

[40plus]

Here's a link to a story from Save Disney from a Las Vegas reporter George Knapp. I wonder if any of the Disney Management happened to read how an out of town reporter was treated and then asked themselves how do we spin this? The article speaks enough for its self. http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004/MERC-Apr-08-Thu-2004/23605209.html

 

[WDSearcher]

I don't know that they have to "spin" it at all. It sounds like the guy's entire trip was lousy. Some sort of offer of free tickets or a free weekend stay might be offered, but past that, he's a guy who didn't like his trip to Disneyland. It's not like he's the first one to feel that way, nor is he the last one who will. But the entire tone of his column is negative. After the drive from Vegas to LA and his comments about LA itself, nothing that happened at Disneyland was going to turn this guy's mood around.

 

[JIMINOCCHIO]

boy, who let him out of his cage? or off his meds? i'm not surprised he says "significant other", who would want to marry such a miserable person? doesn't seem that anything would have made him happy. of course everything is pricey by LV standards, we don't have the population gambling their hard earned dollars just to lose it all to the casinos. at least you are getting entertainment with the price at DLR. in LV you have to spend $100 just for a 2 hour show, now that's pricey. and what made him think Space Mountain is closed indefinitely? duh, it's reopening for the 50th.

 

[renknt]

Originally posted by JIMINOCCHIO
boy, who let him out of his cage? or off his meds? ... doesn't seem that anything would have made him happy.

I think you missed the point of the article
1) He did not want to go in the first place.
2) He is right the food prices are at least double what they are on the outside.
3) He was justifiable upset about not being informed about the construction on his floor, not to mention a construction worker just walking in to his room.
4) When they gave him a new room that the A/C didn’t work



Had this happened to me, I don’t know about you but I would have been just a little unhappy as well.

I see that you stay on property when you can. I have a question for you how many times would you stay on property if your first time had been like Mr. Knapp’s experience?

 

[WDSearcher]

But as a journalist, shouldn't he have been a bit more objective going in? I mean ... if he's going to write an article on the place, then journalistic objectivity should win out.

True, the hotel thing was a mess, and he should be compensated. But he went in expecting to hate the experience, so of course he did. Had he gone in with a bit more of an open mind, he might have enjoyed himself more.

 

[JIMINOCCHIO]

he should have never written the article, he was jaded before he even arrived.

i'd be interested to find out what PPH really did with/for him. i seriously doubt it was nothing as portrayed. his was a very one sided story.

 

[Sarangel]

Ummm? Guys? Did you read the early part of the article? The writer clearly states:

While it's true that my taste in vacations leans toward sandy beaches and cold cocktails, I am not averse--in principle, at least--to an occasional foray into the Magic Kingdom. I was hip to the Pirates of the Caribbean decades before Johnny Depp made them cool. I've learned from personal experience that there are all sorts of sneaky things an adult can get away with in the wilds of Tom Sawyer's Island. I have even learned to appreciate the much-maligned California Adventure theme park, largely because its more mature vibe means easier access to frosty beverages.

When I mentioned to the Viking (my significant other) that APTRA, the Associated Press-Television-Radio Association, was holding its annual awards ceremony at Disneyland, she pretty much insisted we attend. And since we were going to be "in the neighborhood," she reasoned, we might as well drop by Six Flags Magic Mountain for a day or so too. Recognizing that a journalism convention might mean at least part of our annual Disney outing could be a legitimate tax deduction, I agreed to go.

This doesn't sound to me like someone who went in to trash Disney... It just sounds like he had an awful trip that wasn't helped by the Cast Members, or the crowds.

Sarangel

 

[renknt]

Originally posted by WDSearcher
But as a journalist, shouldn't he have been a bit more objective going in? I mean ... if he's going to write an article on the place, then journalistic objectivity should win out. ..... Had he gone in with a bit more of an open mind, he might have enjoyed himself more.

Journalistic objectivity are you kidding there is no such thing every article, report; editorial what have you has the originators opinion and biases in it.

>>Try as I might to enjoy this little getaway with the Viking, the stars simply weren't aligned. For one thing, the interior of the two Disneyland parks reminded me of L.A. freeways. A lot of crowding, a lot of waiting, a lot of buttheads. <<

This is his opinion and saying “you think you had a bad weekend look at mine”

By the way Mr. Knapp wrote a column not a news story.

 

[raidermatt]

As renknt said, clearly an opinion column as opposed to an informative news story.

That said, if I had the same experience at the hotel he did, I'd be pretty annoyed too. No, it wouldn't ruin my entire trip, but I also wouldn't be singing Disney's praises when I returned.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by raidermatt
As renknt said, clearly an opinion column as opposed to an informative news story.

That said, if I had the same experience at the hotel he did, I'd be pretty annoyed too. No, it wouldn't ruin my entire trip, but I also wouldn't be singing Disney's praises when I returned.

But there's a difference between not singing something's praises and trashing the place. The mere fact that he found California Adventure's interior crowded with long lines should be proof enough that he didn't really take the place in. California Adventure is NEVER crowded!

 

[Sarangel]

California Adventure is NEVER crowded!

Again, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the last time we were there, it *was* crowded. It was Labor Day weekend, granted, but DCA tends to fill up on the days that DL is PACKED, and during spring break weekends is one of those times.

The fact remains that this guy had a terrible time. He was unimpressed with the service, which can be traced back to Eisner's hacking the training program and general low morale because of the politics inside the company. Park Maintenance, which has also been cut under Eisner's programs, can be held responsible for several rides being out of commission. All he was saying (IMO) is that Eisner should be replaced with someone who 'gets it' and wouldn't have let the company degrade to a place where an experience such as his could have taken place.


Sarangel

 

[Lesley]

"A lot of crowding, a lot of waiting, a lot of buttheads."

Honestly this sounds like our experience in October....particularly at MNSSHP. Is it me, or has the butthead population increased? They seemed to all be at WDW last October. December, however, was relatively butthead free.

It was the first time we encountered such huge masses of nasty people at WDW.

While I agree that the performance of the CM's has suffered in the past few years I can see where even the good ones are facing new challenges...from both within the company and from the guests. I have no problem paying a premium for great service and a wonderful experience....but when the quality of the experience deteriorates there comes a point where its not worth it.

I'd rather pay more and have cleanliness, maintenance done at off hours, and super friendly cm's than pay the same as all the other places and their same lack of quality. Last time I looked Six Flags and Paramount parks were charging almost the same for a one day ticket as Disney. Then again, overpaying for a mediocre or bad experience (ie. Six Flags, or this guy's experience at Disneyland) does not create the desire to do it again.

As usual my mind is drifting....lost track of what my point was....I guess that's life with a new baby!

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by Sarangel Again, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the last time we were there, it *was* crowded.

It was a joke (hence the laughy face). Sorry.

The fact remains that this guy had a terrible time. He was unimpressed with the service, which can be traced back to Eisner's hacking the training program and general low morale because of the politics inside the company.

I know I'll get trounced on for this, but I am so tired of people saying that bad service by CMs is Michael Eisner's fault.

By the time you've become an adult and are in the working world, you either know how to treat people, or you don't. "Be nice to people." That's really all that customer service is. If that's how you behave in your real life, then behaving that way at work is something you'll do instinctively. And if you don't, then no amount of "Traditions" is going to beat it into you. Walt always made comments about how it didn't matter if you were having a bad day at home or if you didn't feel well or if you were really busy or tired at work ... you had to put all that aside and make the Guest feel as though they were the most important person in the world. That is still stressed in training. And if I'm going to stand there and say that I want to bring back "Walt's Disney", then I can't fall back on being upset about company politics as an excuse for why my service is bad. Walt wouldn't care how I felt ... he'd expect me to do my job.

ME might be responsible for a lot of the failings of the Walt Disney Company, but if I, as a cast member, give someone lousy service, that's no one's fault but my own.

 

[raidermatt]

ME might be responsible for a lot of the failings of the Walt Disney Company, but if I, as a cast member, give someone lousy service, that's no one's fault but my own.

I've been through this with Viking (this board's Viking, not that columnist's wife...), and I'll keep saying it until we get on the same page.

On an individual level, I agree. ME is not an excuse for any one person not doing a good job. Every individual is reponsible for their own actions.

HOWEVER, we can't control the minds of every individual out there. The fact is that if you treat a group of people poorly, they will not perform as well as they would if they were satisfied with the treatment they were receiving. Environment is a factor in how kids grow up, how people act in society, and how employees perform in the workplace. Its not the ONLY factor, but its a significant factor. If you don't train employees adequately, or even if they just don't believe you really buy into the importance of the job they do, you will have problems.

So when I see an individual CM do a poor job, I don't give that individual a free pass because ME is the CEO of the Walt Disney Company.

However, when I hear/see that the performance of the CMs as a whole is not what it used to be, I do put the responsibility for that on management, which ultimately gets back to Eisner.

 

[caseymaureen]

While every person is responsible for their own individual performance, much of this lack of quality can be traced directly back to the management. If a person is not friendly to guests and does not meet Disney standards, why was he or she hired? Management should be more selective in the hiring process. Traditions as it used to be could have a giant effect on a CM's morale- the class pretty much explains the Disney standards and why it is so important to uphold them. The fact that Traditions has been cut back from a multi-day learning experience to a few hour cram course can be directly traced back to management. This skimps on everything the company stands for- teaching new workers the history, ideals, and purpose of the company is forgotten in favor of getting a few more hours of work out of people. This leaves little to differenciate working at Disney, or "The Disney Difference" from working at pretty much any other job. When an individual or a group of people are constantly put down, criticized, and forgotten by both guests and managers, there is very little any one person can do to keep morale up. It is such a rare occurance for most CMs to hear a kind or encouraging word from either a guest or "leader," I think most people would conclude after awhile that, for minimum wage, the job just isn't worth that much effort. Why care if no one else does? This can all be blamed on the company's management.

Mr Knapp obviously did not enjoy his time at Disneyland. He had many very good reasons and his opinions are cmpletely valid. He has every reason to be upset, both with his experience and the company in general. The company knows that no matter how much the people posting on this and other boards complain, we're still going to go back. We're still going to give them our money. They don't have that assurance with casual visitors, and hopefully Mr. Knapp's article and the experiences of others like him will help the company wake up from its epidemic of indifference.

 

[YoHo]

Caseymaureen and Matt stated, yes, every single CM is responsible for his or her own actions, but Micheal Eisner and his policies set hiring trends, They set expectations, they set training and they affect Cast motivation. All of this has a major impact on the quality of work from those employees.

There were bad CMs when Walt was alive. There were CMs that had bad days or were consistantly not following the rules laid down by the organization. The difference is that this was not tolerated at all in the old days. If a CM was consistantly bad, that CM was gone. If they had a bad day and took it out on a guest, they were repremanded. The culture of Disney has changed.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by caseymaureen
When an individual or a group of people are constantly put down, criticized, and forgotten by both guests and managers, there is very little any one person can do to keep morale up. It is such a rare occurance for most CMs to hear a kind or encouraging word from either a guest or "leader" ...

Just out of curiousity, what was your College Program experience like? I've been at Disney for over 15 years -- a chunk of it at minimum wage or just above -- and have not been put down, criticized, and forgotten by guests or managers for any significant period during that time. I have met mostly wonderful guests, and have had encouraging and competent leaders. Yes ... there have been times during my tenure when my leaders -- or fellow CMs -- left something to be desired, or when I met a guest who believed my entire purpose in life was to pick up their garbage and listen to their complaints. But it has been the exception, not the rule. If you had a horrible experience as a College Program CM, then I'm sorry, and I'll just count myself as lucky for working in an area where the team is supportive and enjoys their work. But I would also remind you that the people who dislike their jobs or leaders are more likely to make noise than the people who are happy. So the comments that are out there might be somewhat skewed.

Truly ... honestly ... I don't see the wide-ranging dispair and disappointment and beating down and bottomed out morale that people keep talking about. Are there pockets of people who dislike their jobs or their supervisors? Of course. In a workforce of 55,000 people, I'd expect there to be. Are there people who are bitter and dislike management? Naturally. There were in the pre-Eisner days too. Are there people who hate Michael Eisner? Yes. But there are also people who come to Disney saying they'll "do ANYTHING to work there" and then are insulted when they're offered jobs in Foods and Custodial. There are people who spend all their time onstage and backstage complaining about their jobs and their managers, never do anything to improve the situation, and then fume about never being promoted or rewarded. And there are people who do their jobs badly and then blame everybody else so that they're never held accountable.

But overall, the vast majority of CMs I come into contact with every day care far less about what's going on in the executive offices than they do about whether or not Grad Nites is going to go off without a hitch or whether the MK will be closing at capacity tomorrow. They enjoy working at Disney, they're proud they work at Disney, and they're doing their best to do that magic thing every day. They had no idea that morale at WDW was so bad until Roy Disney told them.

My morale is not low, my working conditions are not horrible and my management is not indifferent. But, somehow, I feel like I should be apologizing for that.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by YoHo
Caseymaureen and Matt stated, yes, every single CM is responsible for his or her own actions, but Micheal Eisner and his policies set hiring trends, They set expectations, they set training and they affect Cast motivation. All of this has a major impact on the quality of work from those employees.

I would say that the expectations are also set by the guests. Look at how many people on these boards complain about how there are too few custodial people or too few maintenance people or too few servers at the restaurants. All you read is that Disney should hire more people. But the job market is different than it was when there was only MK and Epcot. SeaWorld was a baby; Universal didn't exist. International Drive was a couple of hotels and a tiny convention space. Everyone could be pickier when hiring. That's harder to do now.

If CMs are consistently bad, they ARE gone. It takes a bit more time now, due to union documentation and peer panels and all the other procedures that have to be gotten through, but people get fired for non-performance just like they used to. CMs ARE reprimanded if they take out their "bad day" on a guest. But ... a lot people also come back from trips, say the service was lousy somewhere, or that their hotel room wasn't what they were expecting, or that the bus driver was surly, and then -- when asked if they reported that to a manager -- say they didn't. They'll complain for days on a chat board, but will never once send an e-mail or letter to the people who can actually fix the problem. That's a culture that's changed as well.

 

[Sarangel]

But ... a lot people also come back from trips, say the service was lousy somewhere, or that their hotel room wasn't what they were expecting, or that the bus driver was surly, and then -- when asked if they reported that to a manager -- say they didn't.

One point to consider is that Guests are no longer allowed to regiser complaints or compliments at City Hall (something to do with the lawyers). This makes it *very* difficult to report someone either doing a very good job, or a very bad job.

Sarangel

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"However, when I hear/see that the performance of the CMs as a whole is not what it used to be, I do put the responsibility for that on management, which ultimately gets back to Eisner."***

But have you seen or heard that performance as a whole is not what it used to be ? Personally, I haven't noticed anything close to that. Last year I spent 5 weeks in the World and the only CM complaint I have is with a CM who would not allow me to use one of the luggage carts at WL. That's it, one issue - partially my fault - during 35 days on property. Maybe before 1995 the CM's were better - but I doubt it.

***" But the job market is different than it was when there was only MK and Epcot. SeaWorld was a baby; Universal didn't exist. International Drive was a couple of hotels and a tiny convention space. Everyone could be pickier when hiring. That's harder to do now."***

Absolutely,positively agree. I hire and fire for my department and in a lot of cases I'm forced to keep people I'd love to fire simply because there is no one qualified to replace them.