MK feels different.

[KulaMauiMouse]

Let's not ignore the main problem here - the "capacity" of Magic Kingdom is far too inflated. Knowing how bad it was when I was there, full capacity must be dangerous and god forbid that is ever proven. Lengthy line-ups for even the least popular rides are a sign of poor customer service and quality control. Unfortunately, Disney has no reason to make any changes because people are obviously going to go no matter how crowded it is. I read reports of 5+hour line-ups last New Year's Eve. That is beyond ludicrous.

Totally agree. Waiting a certain amount is expected but then becomes asinine. For a few months when Elsa and Anna were in Epcot people were reporting waits up to three hours. What?!? I'm not that knowledgeable airboat the inner workings of Disney but it sure feels like they're relying on lines as crowd management instead of expanding experiences. Disney sells the experience, not just the rides, and the experience during peak times sounds likes it's bottoming out.

I have been to Disneyland during an earthquake in the summer. It was not a dangerous event and many people didn't even feel it. However, everyone is evacuated from ALL rides until the rides are cleared as safe and for that period of time you get a sense of how many people are really in the park. Mass evacuation would be scary at best.


I would like to know the percentage of people who actually use their booked FP+. It seems to follow that if people wouldn't use a FP- that some won't bother to use FP+. If non FP rides stand by times are longer it seems the system needs tweaking at the least.

 

[KulaMauiMouse]

[QUOTE=" If you are enough of a veteran to use 10+ FP in a day, then you are veteran enough to expect large crowds. Sounds to me like the magic was lost by your own poor pre-planning. JMO. We went during spring break/Easter one year, and vowed NEVER AGAIN. But we expected it. No one to blame but ourselves.[/QUOTE]

Many people with children don't have much choice about when they visit a park. Before our kids were too old to skip school we'd go during the off season. For the last few years we've had to go during peak times. FP- made these trips do-able as we were still able to ride many of our favorite rides without long wait times. With planning we could still have a great trip. Now it sounds like with planning our trip could just be okay. In my opinion it's Disneys responsibly to produce a product that allows those who have kids and have to come during busy times to enjoy themselves to the fullest.

 

[serene56]

10+ fastpasses a day? Seriously?

back a few years ago I could easily do 10 a day.. Paper fast passes although had a return time you could use them any time on the date up until the park closed.

We spent the morning acquiring the passes for use in the evening-- then we would ride stand by.

The key was to grab one as soon as the time came-- that first one of the morning--with a return time at 9:20 so by 9:30 we already had 2 FP to use.

this new system really puts the damper on people who used to use paper FP to the max.

Here is what I don't understand about posts like these: if you pulled a legacy fastpass on a very crowded day for Space Mountain around midday, wouldn't you be locked out of any other fastpasses for several hours, maybe even after 7:00-8 pm? That is why a lot of us don't buy that you were pulling 10+ fastpasses on a very busy day. I believe people are forgetting that they probably would have a similarly bad time on capacity days even with the almighty legacy fastpass.

I would NEVER ever pull a FP if I could not pull another within a 2 hour window. With TSM-- that is why it was important to get there at rd and pull the first thing

 

[sunshine1]

I agree at MK being busy. First time in april for me .i went wednesday 2nd and it was so busy, i felt that i couldnt appreciate it as much.

I enjoyed the studios and Epcot much more on this visit due to the lower crowds.

 

[smitch425]

All right, I think there has been enough flaming people for expressing a concern about overcrowding at MK. I have no idea if she was able to post 10+ old Fastpass tickets a day, or not, but what I do know is that the essential argument she was making was about Disney letting in too many people. Now, was it an obvious peek time? Yes. Was it a time that a very popular TV show was filming? Yes. But Disney still has a ton of crowd control upgrades to make.

The new FP+ system now enables you to get me more FPs during the day once your initial three are used up. Additionally, everyone going to disney should be looking ahead to know which days are best to get to each of the parks. If you don't, than not doing everything you want to do sis entirely on you. You get as much out of Disney as you put into it. I've been planning my July trip for six months and know for a fact that even though I'm going to be in the park during one of the very last weeks before school starts in most areas, I'm going to do everything I wish to do.

The everyone being equal argument, I would have to agree is ridiculous. Las summer I remember running to opposite ends of The park to get fast passes and knowing that there was no other way to do it. The people that didn't do that, well they were out of luck. We both had equal opportunity, I'm just the one who actually took it.


All in all we should not be putting somebody down because they are expressing a feeling they had at Disney. We don't have to agree with her, but her experience obviously upset her enough that she wanted to talk about it. Disney has a bar to reach that is so high it falls short for people at times. There is no other brand in huge world where so much is expected. People go to Disney and expect perfection. When the hey don't get it their disappointment becomes obvious.

Take Disney for what it is. Maybe next time your experience will be more magical. I know I'm looking forward to July with all of my heart!!

Additional FPs--That is not currently happening. Where are you getting your info? This is the third time you have recently posted completely incorrect information. I really hope you are reading these corrections. I would hate for you to have misinformation for your trip. Please make sure you have correct info before sharing it with others. People are getting confused.

 

[maxiesmom]

Additional FPs? That is not currently happening. Where are you getting your info? This is the third time you have posted completely incorrect information. I really hope you are reading these corrections. I would hate for you to have misinformation for your trip. Please make sure you have correct info before sharing misinformation with others. People are getting confused.

It was announced just a couple of days ago that they are going to allow you to pull additional FPs after you have used your first 3 up.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

It was announced just a couple of days ago that they are going to allow you to pull additional FPs after you have used your first 3 up.

That's true. But as far as I know, they haven't announced when this be available to everyone.

 

[smitch425]

It was announced just a couple of days ago that they are going to allow you to pull additional FPs after you have used your first 3 up.

Going to, yes, but not currently, right? Unless it has already started, and to my knowledge, it has not.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

you do know why you were pulling 10+ FP? because not everyone utilized FP. Now that they are spreading FP to people that would not have normally used them, you can get less or they run out.

Disney beefed up their marketing of FP which is giving FP to people that did not use them before (aka FP+). You get less but they are spread out evenly now. It "sucks" because now you are evenly matched with everyone and you don't like it.

You say that as if making full use of the legacy FP system was a bad thing... as if guests who did so were somehow being less than ethical.

 

[magicbob]

Prior to the enforcement of the FP return window, FP- was not fair to everyone because everyone did not have the same information available once they arrived at Disney. While there were CMs that would tell people that they could use their FPs past their return window, Disney never advertised this on any of their signage, printed materials, or on the actual FP ticket itself.

One can argue that everyone had the same opportunity to do research and find out about this FP- return window "trick" but that should not have had to be done as Disney should not have withheld that information from their guests.

Now, I know that changed when they were preparing for the FP+ system and started enforcing return windows, but it is inaccurate to say that the FP- was always completely fair and everyone was on a level playing field.

What was preventing someone from learning the trick was the plain language on the Disney FP tickets, Signage, and printed materials. Why would a user of FP even begin to think that they could use the FP window past what is printed on the ticket? It was not fair because of Disney and the way they promoted the FP.


And please take note that I did not say that FP+ was fair. I was only commenting on the assertion that FP- was a completely fair system.

Late FP- usage in the past is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Regardless of when the FPs were used, all guests had the opportunity to attain one pretty much whenever they wanted to.

And guess what? Not everyone ran frantically back and forth to collect maximum # of FPs. You could often pull a FP for something as you happened to be in the area and kill a little time until your return. Yes, sometimes the return would be much later, but typically only for the MOST popular rides. Even for some headliners, I have often seen FPs available throughout the day in the past and return times would only be 30-60 minutes out (sometimes the FP return time was sooner than the posted wait time!). That means all the evil super-users who knew all the "tricks" weren't snatching all the FPs up at RD and preventing others from getting any. There were plenty available because lots of people just didn't bother to take them even though they could have at any time.

It was completely fair. The FPs were there for the taking if someone wanted to get one (with a few exceptions of FPs that ran out early like TSMM and Soarin').

It was easy to pull multiple FPs because you could get one every two hours (plus at RD you could get the first few a little more frequently until crowds started to pick up). No special knowledge or secret handshake required. The park map stated that FP was free. The FP itself had printed on it exactly when you were eligible to get another FP.

Late usage is a straw man argument in terms of whether the system was "fair" or not because when you used a FP had nothing to do with how many you could attain during the day.

 

[sonofanarchy]

Disney is so funny. They know darn well there will be few if any decent FP's available after you have used your 3, at least during busy season. If I wasn't so used to their treating me like I didn't have a brain in my head, I'd be offended.

 

[JimmyV]

I think a lot of people are forgetting only a small handful of attractions ran out of FP early in the day, especially during non peak times of the year.

Really depends on time of day plus crowd level. In October 2012 FP for TSMM were gone by 1100a on an average crowd day.

But that is exactly morethananyonex's point. TSMM was an outlier. All too often, people try to prove a general point by using TSMM and Soarin' as the model. But they weren't. They were the "handful". Perhaps FP- could have been salvaged by limiting FPs for these two rides, (and perhaps two or three others) to one every other day per guest, and by placing "all attraction" FP machines throughout the parks. That way, FPs for the big attractions could be allocated failry, equally, evenly, (pick you adjective), FPs for the remianing attractions could be obtained on an unlimited basis subject to availability, and there would be no need to criss-cross the park to get passes. You could get a ToT fast pass right outside the Muppet Theater.

On the issue of "criss-crossing", it really is a red herring. How many people spent the day in DHS and toured the park in an orderly, clockwise or counterclockwise fashion and never returned to an area where they had been before? With or without FPs, we find ourselves walking down Sunset Blvd three or four times a day, whether it is to ride rides, eat lunch, get ice cream or go to the Beauty and the Beast Show. The fact that we might pop on by a FP machine to pick up another FP is ancillary. We weren't criss-crossing the park because of FP, We criss-crossed the park because that is what we did. When people talk about criss-crossing and FP, I think they need to pay more attention to "additional'" or "unnecessary" criss-crossing separate and apart from whatever criss-crossing they would have done anyway. If you are in the MK from RD until Fireworks, you are going to cross the park three or four times in the day, irrespective of FP usage. I suppose there were people who used FP- who used one at BTMRR and then went to Tomorrowland to ride Space, and then went across the park back to Splash to ride that. But not many. Your FP return times would not have allowed for riding these three in succession without doing more in between. This idea that people went from BTMRR --> Space --> Splash --> Buzz --> JC --> Barnstormer just doesn't represent reality.

 

[PlutoMars]

Late FP- usage in the past is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Regardless of when the FPs were used, all guests had the opportunity to attain one pretty much whenever they wanted to.

It is definitely relative to any discussion talking about how "fair" the Fp- system was. And I agree with you, all guests had an opportunity to attain one pretty much whenever they wanted to. Not disagreeing with that at all. My only point was that it was not fair in terms of how Disney operated in regards to late FP usage.

And guess what? Not everyone ran frantically back and forth to collect maximum # of FPs. You could often pull a FP for something as you happened to be in the area and kill a little time until your return. Yes, sometimes the return would be much later, but typically only for the MOST popular rides. Even for some headliners, I have often seen FPs available throughout the day in the past and return times would only be 30-60 minutes out (sometimes the FP return time was sooner than the posted wait time!). That means all the evil super-users who knew all the "tricks" weren't snatching all the FPs up at RD and preventing others from getting any. There were plenty available because lots of people just didn't bother to take them even though they could have at any time.

Talk about straw man arguments. I did not say anything in regards to any of what you stated above. Nor did I label anyone as an "evil super user". More power to the people that took advantage of it. Disney certainly allowed it. That doesnt change my opinion that it was not fair that Disney didnt fully advertise the late FP usage in ANY of its signage, FP ticket, or printed material that guests had access to.

It was completely fair. The FPs were there for the taking if someone wanted to get one (with a few exceptions of FPs that ran out early like TSMM and Soarin').

Yup, that sure was completely fair. Doesn't make the whole FP- system fair though.

It was easy to pull multiple FPs because you could get one every two hours (plus at RD you could get the first few a little more frequently until crowds started to pick up). No special knowledge or secret handshake required. The park map stated that FP was free. The FP itself had printed on it exactly when you were eligible to get another FP.

Yup, again I agree where it was easy to pull multiple FPs The only secret handshake or special knowledge came in knowing that one could actually use a FP after its printed window closed. If we are to take the printed FP ticket as gospel then why did it not have just the beginning part of the return window on it? Disney could have easily done so. As they could have easily printed on the map.

Late usage is a straw man argument in terms of whether the system was "fair" or not because when you used a FP had nothing to do with how many you could attain during the day.

It is not a straw man and did absolutely affect how many FPs a person actually would obtain in a day because some of these people who knew they could use the FP any time after the return window opened up would not have taken the FP in the first place had they not been able to return later. That is why people were so upset when the window started being enforced because it reduced the amount of FPs they used to be able to take in one day.

 

[tp1830]

I'm not going to comment on the FP situation...its a personal experience, like it or not, its personal. Everyone tours differently and this affects everyone differently...there's no right or wrong. If its stated as an opinion, please realize that if you're flaming someone for voicing an opinion...it makes people look so narrowminded.

I want to comment on the crowded factor. On a non-peak day, it took me over 25 min to walk from the central hub circle to the exit gate, without stopping. The crowds were just so thick...and on top of that, i got hit by strollers, wheelchairs, sneakers, etc. I don't really know the capacity numbers, but if i'm almost being knocked over to get out of the park during a normal time, i can't imagine what it would look like if there was an emergency. Safety to me is that i don't have to fight to get out of the park.

If i want to leave during the afternoon and i couldn't make it out before a parade?!?...same thing. I can either not cross or i have to fight and excuse myself to just get a wheelchair down main street.

I can get out of times square on NYE quicker, easier, less frustrated, and not beaten up like i do on a non-peak day of MK.

 

[mom2rtk]

Really depends on time of day plus crowd level. In October 2012 FP for TSMM were gone by 1100a on an average crowd day.

Did someone mention TSMM?

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

It is definitely relative to any discussion talking about how "fair" the Fp- system was. And I agree with you, all guests had an opportunity to attain one pretty much whenever they wanted to. Not disagreeing with that at all. My only point was that it was not fair in terms of how Disney operated in regards to late FP usage.



Talk about straw man arguments. I did not say anything in regards to any of what you stated above. Nor did I label anyone as an "evil super user". More power to the people that took advantage of it. Disney certainly allowed it. That doesnt change my opinion that it was not fair that Disney didnt fully advertise the late FP usage in ANY of its signage, FP ticket, or printed material that guests had access to.



Yup, that sure was completely fair. Doesn't make the whole FP- system fair though.



Yup, again I agree where it was easy to pull multiple FPs The only secret handshake or special knowledge came in knowing that one could actually use a FP after its printed window closed. If we are to take the printed FP ticket as gospel then why did it not have just the beginning part of the return window on it? Disney could have easily done so. As they could have easily printed on the map.



It is not a straw man and did absolutely affect how many FPs a person actually would obtain in a day because some of these people who knew they could use the FP any time after the return window opened up would not have taken the FP in the first place had they not been able to return later. That is why people were so upset when the window started being enforced because it reduced the amount of FPs they used to be able to take in one day.

In 10 trips I can count on one hand that amount of FPs we used after the return time. And I'm talking about less than 30 minutes after the return time. We don't think FP- was "unfair" at all. We were able to pull and use 9 FPs last June because we were willing to spend 14 hours in the park that day. If you were leaving the park in the middle of the day it was going to affect how many FPs you could pull no matter what time of the day you used the FPs.

 

[PlutoMars]

If you were leaving the park in the middle of the day it was going to affect how many FPs you could pull no matter what time of the day you used the FPs.

Perhaps. But if a family planned to take a 3 hour break from the park and the FP return time for space mountain was during that break, they would not have pulled that FP unless they knew they could use it after the return window so it would have an affect on how many FPs person would pull.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

The problem with the old FP system was it catered to a certain demographic

The people I see arguing it was "great and fair" are in the demographic
1) agile enough to visit the same location twice in short order, but then able to quickly get to some other "fill in" ride
2) people who seem to like the challenge - getting the most out of the system
3) people who like to be goal driven
4) people who don't mind splitting up their party in order to hit the maximum number of fp's

Other demographics -
* people with disabilities
* people with small children
* parents who are trying to give the impression that a magical day at WDW is just that - not something to rush through.. more Carpe diem, less the goal is all that matters

i did not find the old FP model useful

I am a compulsive planner.. i did my homework on the parks 4 years ago. But realized dragging my 5 year old in circles in order to get that one additional FP ride would not make for a great trip

Over the last few trips, I've seen too much craziness - people stressed, rushing, yelling at their kids. All at the happiest place on earth(?)

I'm excited to try the new model.. While at home, I can take the time and plan out the day - leaving ample time to saunter from place to place. For my, now 9 year old, it can seem carefree

Hopefully this pre-planned experience will help some people slow down and enjoy the park

Yup, I see your point!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[magicbob]

It is definitely relative to any discussion talking about how "fair" the Fp- system was. And I agree with you, all guests had an opportunity to attain one pretty much whenever they wanted to. Not disagreeing with that at all. My only point was that it was not fair in terms of how Disney operated in regards to late FP usage.

I'll concede that it might not have been considered a "fair" practice to allow something and not shout it from the rooftops. But singling out that aspect is cherry-picking one aspect of a system that allowed equal opportunity of access. Consider that MANY businesses allow practices that are not highly publicized. For example, you can go into Taco Bell and order things that aren't on the menu. Is it fair that some people don't know they can do this? Perhaps. Does that make Taco Bell an unfair restaurant? That would be a stretch.

Talk about straw man arguments. I did not say anything in regards to any of what you stated above. Nor did I label anyone as an "evil super user". More power to the people that took advantage of it. Disney certainly allowed it. That doesnt change my opinion that it was not fair that Disney didnt fully advertise the late FP usage in ANY of its signage, FP ticket, or printed material that guests had access to.

I didn't mean to imply that you labeled anyone. It's just a widely held opinion around here that FP+ was created to fix the problem of "super users" getting all of the FPs. It's common for many of us to quote someone and reply to them, but then make a larger point encompassing some of the big themes debated here over the decades. So not everything in my reply was a direct response to your post. Sorry for any confusion.

Yup, that sure was completely fair. Doesn't make the whole FP- system fair though.

Conversely, just because some didn't know about late usage being allowed, that didn't make the whole FP- system unfair (as many others have asserted).

Yup, again I agree where it was easy to pull multiple FPs The only secret handshake or special knowledge came in knowing that one could actually use a FP after its printed window closed. If we are to take the printed FP ticket as gospel then why did it not have just the beginning part of the return window on it? Disney could have easily done so. As they could have easily printed on the map.

We probably actually agree more than we disagree. They certainly could have done that. Some will maintain that it was a secret handshake by design. But my experience over multiple trips was that CMs were widely disseminating this information at the FP kiosks.

It is not a straw man and did absolutely affect how many FPs a person actually would obtain in a day because some of these people who knew they could use the FP any time after the return window opened up would not have taken the FP in the first place had they not been able to return later. That is why people were so upset when the window started being enforced because it reduced the amount of FPs they used to be able to take in one day.

Upon further reflection, I agree that the enforcement of return windows DID slightly affect # of FPs, but only in a few instances. 1.) It did force some people to criss cross the park more in order to make their return times. Some people chose not to take a FP that they might have taken if it could be used later. However, they COULD HAVE still taken it if they wanted. and 2.) On occasion, the return time might conflict with return time of a FP they already held or an ADR. In this instance, it would also affect the number of FPs someone DID take, but it would not affect the number of FPs that someone COULD take.

Perhaps. But if a family planned to take a 3 hour break from the park and the FP return time for space mountain was during that break, they would not have pulled that FP unless they knew they could use it after the return window so it would have an affect on how many FPs person would pull.

True. It may have affected how many FPs someone WOULD pull, but not how many they COULD pull.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

It is definitely relative to any discussion talking about how "fair" the Fp- system was. And I agree with you, all guests had an opportunity to attain one pretty much whenever they wanted to. Not disagreeing with that at all. My only point was that it was not fair in terms of how Disney operated in regards to late FP usage.



Talk about straw man arguments. I did not say anything in regards to any of what you stated above. Nor did I label anyone as an "evil super user". More power to the people that took advantage of it. Disney certainly allowed it. That doesnt change my opinion that it was not fair that Disney didnt fully advertise the late FP usage in ANY of its signage, FP ticket, or printed material that guests had access to.



Yup, that sure was completely fair. Doesn't make the whole FP- system fair though.



Yup, again I agree where it was easy to pull multiple FPs The only secret handshake or special knowledge came in knowing that one could actually use a FP after its printed window closed. If we are to take the printed FP ticket as gospel then why did it not have just the beginning part of the return window on it? Disney could have easily done so. As they could have easily printed on the map.



It is not a straw man and did absolutely affect how many FPs a person actually would obtain in a day because some of these people who knew they could use the FP any time after the return window opened up would not have taken the FP in the first place had they not been able to return later. That is why people were so upset when the window started being enforced because it reduced the amount of FPs they used to be able to take in one day.

Yup!!!!!!! This is a video from the Jungle Cruise......the FastPass line snakes outside of the queue.......while the standby line is walk on due to folks hoarding all of the Fastpasses and using after them after they expire!!!!!!!! It was a real bad problem for Disney and it needed to be addressed!!!!! Disney deserves a gold medal for Fastpass Plus!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBO1htGurR8