Ministry Salaries-- are they private?

[Pembo]

Cindy your church sounds like it is in a financial mess!

I only wish the wife got paid but to answer your question I don't know of any wives who get paid just for being a wife. My dh does know a few ministry couples, both are ordained, who share a church and both receive salaries.

Your ministers salary sounds quite high and if the church can't afford it that is a problem. As for housing, it all depends on the area. Personally we would never accept a "gift" from the church for our downpayment. That can get too dicey.

DH had to attend a Boundaries workshop not long ago and "expensive gifts" (read gifts with strings attached) were highly discouraged.

Also it sounds like he is not doing his job. Not sure what denomination you are but this minister does not sound like he is in the right church.

 

[MaMudduck]

Some History: I & Dh are ministers in Canada. I'm not paid and my dh is the Senior Pastor. When we took over the church 6 years ago, it had 13 people attending it, it is now at 250, and we also have a full-time elementary school with 30 students.
In most churches the financial board of directors (many other names for the job) sets the salary (and does reviews)for the ministers. At our church, we (DH) is paid adequately, (but we are certainly not overpaid) we have an average house for our city. Many of congregation make a lot more than us, and some are paid less. We also both left jobs in the business world to moving to this city and pastor here. (Our income went from $100K to $30K!!!!!)

One of the comments that bothers me (not specifically in this thread, but the general idea of) is that the congregation has the right the judge the minister’s salary, just because they gave the money , 1) Did you give the money to the church ( for operation expenses) or to the minister personally? If it's the latter, keep the money.
2) Just like with any other non-profit organization there are elected members that run the financial side of the company (and make no mistake a church is a company) whether this is a denominational head office, or each individual church. If there is a complaint to be made, regarding the performance of a ministers job then it needs to be directed through them. And depending on the bylaws of the church, most church must give an annual statement, so it is public knowledge (same as any other company) what is paid in total salaries.
3) Most ministers don't go into the ministry for money..ha!. But the lack of money will definitely take its toll on someone, even causing them to leave both the church &/or ministry. Would you stay at a career that you couldn't make ends meet? Or if the people you worked with were always against you?
4) Is it right for ANY persons' income to be limited? If a doctor is no good, no patience’s, no money. Great doctor, etc.etc.

CindyB- I don't think what your minister makes is too much, but if the real issue is job performance and not meeting it's responsiblities, then that's the issue to be dealt with, the proper people and not trying it make it a money issue. If a CEO of a company was not doing his job they wouldn't try to fix it by lowering his salary.

Sorry this is so long, I'm not anger about this or anything (I hope it doesn't read that way), and I agree with what others have written but I do think many times minister are viewed incorrectly.

PS- I wrote this before your question to Pembo. I'm not paid, I'm ordained and work full-time at the church ( School adminstator, youth pastor....etc,etc, etc) but this is ONLY because the church is not at a level to paid me, not based on the desire of the board to put me on salary.

 

[goofy4tink]

And to think that our congregation thinks our rector is quite well paid!!! When you add the salary of 121,000 and housing allow. of 37,000, that's a goodly amount. And no, our wives get nothing extra. In fact, our rector's wife is a nurse practitioner. We figure our rector gets a pretty fair salary, house is provided for them (worth about $300,000), a pension fund, life/health insurance. All of this is public knowledge and if the rector feels it's not enough he is welcome to take it up with the vestry. You sound like you guys have a little financial refiguring to do. Sounds like a mess. And to think all you want is a little spiritual guidance.

 

[Talking Hands]

Our pastor's salary is public record. At another church I was a member at for 26 years we did have a couple who were both ordained and both were on salary. Mind you this was one of the largest and richest churches in the county and could well afford to pay both and both were on staff as full time pastors.
My current church none of the pastor's wives are on staff and paid. We have a pastoral staff of 7 pastors and will be calling one more in the near future plus support staff and custodial that are paid. It is a big church.
Pastors should be paid commensurate with the size of the church,
location and their experience and education. Our senior pastor has 2 PHDs in theology and is working on a 3rd. Our youth pastor is working on a PHD as well.
I would be more concerned that he is not doing his job and that the church elders cannot produce one set of books and figures.

 

[Cindy B]

I appreciate all your comments I really do.

No, the minister does not have a master degree either, just a bachelors degree in journalism from 25 years ago!


The wife has an education degree. She is not an ordained minister or any such like that. But she still pulls in about a 65K salary with bennies!


It is a mess, a huge mess, which is getting worse by day. Many people are up in arms, and its getting ugly. The salary figures were never given to any of the members even if they asked. My DH had to go to the board, and was denied, went to the minsiter himself, and was denied, and then he had to go to financial office and tell the administrator what was going on.

The less advantaged are considerably upset, and the middle of the road members are concerned, and the higher income families are well.. just placated.

Its hard to see or imagine this whole mess without a skewed point of view. Its especially hard when we ask questions to the minister and he refuses to answer, or even meet with us.

 

[Pembo]

Cindyb-What denomination is the church? Ucc, methodist, baptist? etc? Also how long has he been the minister?

I was telling dh about this thread. He reminded that his sister's church in KS is very large and the financial records are all private. His sister who is employed by the church has no idea how much the pastor makes. DH told her he thought that was terrible.

It is a mess, a huge mess, which is getting worse by day

I'm so sorry that your church is going through this.

 

[Cindy B]

Pembo--its a CoC, but not UCC, if that makes any sense.

As for who hired him and his wife.. it only gets better.....

it was the "founder of the church",.. his wife's father and mother.. Nepotism at its best!

 

[tar heel]

You mean both husband and wife get a housing allowance. That's incredible. We've had a husband and wife as associates before, and they only received one housing allowance since they lived in the same house.

Cindy -- I think the salary situation is just a symptom for much larger problems in your church. Sometimes, I forget what an advantage our required oversight by Presbytery is. It would be awfully hard to get into a personality-driven situation like you apparently have. Hope the congregation is able to come to resolution without ugliness.

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by tar heel
You mean both husband and wife get a housing allowance. That's incredible. .

Yes, and that is what shocked us! Umm... don't they live in the same house? (That was my argument!)



I guess thats the only way they can afford the house (said with slight sarcasm)

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by Cindy B
No, the minister does not have a master degree either, just a bachelors degree in journalism from 25 years ago!

Hee! Sorry, couldn't help but laugh! My college roommate, who is getting her doctorate in theology to be an Episcopalian priest, and I used to joke about who would make more. (I have a BA in journalism.) I'll have to tell her she wins!

Your church....just sounds like a mess. Honestly, if they can't work it out, have you thought about switching churches?

 

[Pembo]

Cindy-Sounds like a huge mess especially with the nepotism! If I were you I think I'd be church shopping.

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by Pembo
Cindy-Sounds like a huge mess especially with the nepotism! If I were you I think I'd be church shopping.

Yes, we want to.. but its hard to even think of church shopping. Its a challenging situation.

 

[MaMudduck]

Cindy- Don't be discourage with church or God, If things can't be resolved, I'm sure you & your DH would be a great addition to any church that you felt comfortable in attending.
All churchs don't go through this, and it's really sad that your church has to deal with this. {{{{hugs}}}}, If I can be of any help don't hesitate to ask.

Wendy

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by MaMudduck
Cindy- Don't be discourage with church or God, If things can't be resolved, I'm sure you & your DH would be a great addition to any church that you felt comfortable in attending.
All churchs don't go through this, and it's really sad that your church has to deal with this. {{{{hugs}}}}, If I can be of any help don't hesitate to ask.

Wendy

Thanks for your comments..I appreciate it!