middle school dance -- girls can't turn down a guy who asks them

[mjkacmom]

Any child or adult had the right to turn down anyone.... There is no right or wrong reason. That’s personal. We all have our personal likes and dislikes. Things we are comfortable with or not. I would never expect someone to dance. Date or whatever my kids. If they didn’t want to.... regardless of the reason.

A guy approached the cousin and it was considered impolite to turn down anyone, even tho the guy was mentally disabled.

It seems like the poster thought that it should be ok to turn him down because he was mentally disabled. She then complained her daughter was drooled on. My kids have been raised to be kind and compassionate, I honestly can’t imagine them ever refusing to dance with someone who was disabled in any way.

 

[Disneypro1]

A guy approached the cousin and it was considered impolite to turn down anyone, even tho the guy was mentally disabled.

It seems like the poster thought that it should be ok to turn him down because he was mentally disabled. She then complained her daughter was drooled on. My kids have been raised to be kind and compassionate, I honestly can’t imagine them ever refusing to dance with someone who was disabled in any way.

Who knows what happened. But there is no right or wrong reason. If someone. A kid or not. Doesn’t want to do something with someone. Dance. Movie or whatever. Don’t do it. That’s a personal decision. And no one else’s. To make. I’m not going to dance with someone just to make myself look good or I feel sorry for that person. I would want someone to dance with me because they truly wanted to. Not for any other reason.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Well. So what.....that’s a good life’s lesson.

Not nearly as good a life lesson as compassion.


From the article: "The dances are part of a physical education curriculum that teaches the kids to do box step, swing, and line dancing." IMO, these are all fine. Slow dancing, though, anybody should absolutely be allowed to decline.

 

[EveDallas]

I understand a girl's need to say "no" to rape, but this is for a middle school dance lesson and the music lasts what, five minutes per song? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a...ghters-right-to-say-no/ar-BB10sDxR?li=BBnb7Kz

I wouldn't want to dance with a creeper, but how far should the school go to make the guys feel included?

Nope. No one should be compelled to dance with anyone, regardless of age. Would it be ok for a bar or club to tell woman that they have to dance with anyone who asks?

 

[Hikergirl]

Oh no this would not fly with me. I would be at that principal's office the next morning.

 

[Disney_Alli]

In grades 7&8 our school had combined (all grade 7 and 8 classes together) dances after lunch instead of afternoon classes generally in the fall, at Christmas, at Valentine's Day and in the spring. You could dance or not dance as you chose. We did NOT learn any dance steps or anything during the dances it was simply a social time. In high school there were dance classes (not PE) that you had to select like every other class you took in high school but aside from having one required PE credit (and one required art credit and having never taken dance I'm not actually sure which it fulfilled now that I'm thinking of it) we were never required to dance ever with anyone. High school dances were after school at like 6pm I believe and in 4 years of high school I attended exactly one. I don't even remember how often they were held but I'd bet on a similar number to what we had earlier.

 

[theluckyrabbit]

Not nearly as good a life lesson as compassion.


From the article: "The dances are part of a physical education curriculum that teaches the kids to do box step, swing, and line dancing." IMO, these are all fine. Slow dancing, though, anybody should absolutely be allowed to decline.

Agree that compassion is a very good life lesson. But just to add, swing dancing can be just as risky as slow dancing. I belong to a swing dance studio where it is made known to all women of all ages (including minors and seniors) that it is unacceptable to say "no" when a guy of any age asks you to dance. On the basis of compassion and common courtesy, I don't have a problem with this. However, there have been more than enough times when too many women (myself and friends) have been groped and outright abused (yes, there have been bruises and injuries caused) by young and old men (there is a known group of troublemakers) who claim they have the "right" to do this in public (!) because we aren't supposed to say "no." Uh... no way, no how. I now say "no, thank you" whenever I feel it is in the best interest of my personal safety. Female instructors have scolded me about this. Two male instructors have applauded me. I am hardly a middle schooler. Go figure.

 

[PlainJane]

Agree that compassion is a very good life lesson. But just to add, swing dancing can be just as risky as slow dancing. I belong to a swing dance studio where it is made known to all women of all ages (including minors and seniors) that it is unacceptable to say "no" when a guy of any age asks you to dance. On the basis of compassion and common courtesy, I don't have a problem with this. However, there have been more than enough times when too many women (myself and friends) have been groped and outright abused (yes, there have been bruises and injuries caused) by young and old men (there is a known group of troublemakers) who claim they have the "right" to do this in public (!) because we aren't supposed to say "no." Uh... no way, no how. I now say "no, thank you" whenever I feel it is in the best interest of my personal safety. Female instructors have scolded me about this. Two male instructors have applauded me. I am hardly a middle schooler. Go figure.

I remember back to square dancing being required. I think the only time physical contact occurred was our hands. However, the box step and, like you have mentioned, swing have a lot of opportunity for someone to violate another individual. I remember a guy, when I was a young teenager, that would turn innocent hugs into something gross, I never let him touch me again. I, also, had a friend that was violated (and dress ruined) at a high school dance. I wouldn’t be comfortable with my children being forced (and I have boys) to have such close physical contact. Why on earth does this need to be in the curriculum to begin with?

I understand not wanting to set the boys up for bullying, but they should do that by abandoning the curriculum, not by demanding girls have close physical contact with any guy who asks.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

Schools should be educating, not instilling morals into the students. That is the parents' job. They should be educating on academics, something that is being eroded away in our public schools changing to teaching morals and behavior.

Schools everywhere have always taught proper behavior and moral values. You are gravely mistaken if you think they didn't in the past.

For one thing, it's impossible to effectively teach students when there is no decorum in class. So that mandates teaching behavior. Regardless of whether or not parents teach their children to behave at home (although that really helps), behavior is still going to have to also be taught by teachers in the different social context of a classroom setting.

For another thing, moral issues naturally crop up during the school year (one child aggressively hits another, or calls another vicious names, or cheats on a test, or steals). Yes, teachers and administration are going to moralize about that, and not say, "Well, it's really a matter of opinion as to whether cheating/stealing/bullying is wrong. Go ask your parents what they think." Nothing new there. Historically, there used to be even more moralizing (and harsher punishments for breaking behavior & moral rules), when social norms were more standardized than today. So no, this has nothing to do with the academic quality of education.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

..is wondering what happens when one boy asks another boy to dance and gets politley refused? Or two girls in a similar situation?

Oh right, it's Utah. The asker probably get suspended.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

..is wondering what happens when one boy asks another boy to dance and gets politley refused? Or two girls in a similar situation?

Oh right, it's Utah. The asker probably get suspended.

And if the askee accepts, he/she would get suspended too.

 

[tzolkin]

My girls are older (21 & 16), but they are extremely opinionated about things like this. I am certain they would have been saying no to everyone just on principle even if it meant there would be disciplinary consequences from the school. There's absolutely no way they would have allowed themselves to be coerced into dancing with someone.

I know they mentioned curriculum in the article, but it really is not clear. To me, it sounds like they are learning different types of dance in PE and then having school dances (for fun) where they're hoping the kids will use some of the moves they had learned in class (but the dance is not actually part of the class grade). I think it would be fine to be assigned a partner for class, but I just don't like the feeling of not being allowed to say "no" at a social dance event.

I also don't really see where this policy would eliminate rejection or make kids feel better about themselves overall.

By removing the possibility of "no", the boys will be emboldened to ask girls that they would not normally even consider. So won't all of the pretty/popular girls be receiving all of the invitations? I would think this would make the rest of the girls feel even more rejected and worse about themselves.

No strong feelings because I never attended a middle school that gave dances; same for my sons' and DGD .
Seems more like a high school activity to me.

I think it's pretty common. I had dances in middle school and my kids did as well.

Most of the ones in our current school district are right after school and there are other activities (food in cafeteria, basketball, etc) so I don't think there's much actual dancing going on. All of the schools do have an 8th grade formal that includes dinner and is more like a traditional dance.

 

[mjkacmom]

My girls are older (21 & 16), but they are extremely opinionated about things like this. I am certain they would have been saying no to everyone just on principle even if it meant there would be disciplinary consequences from the school. There's absolutely no way they would have allowed themselves to be coerced into dancing with someone.

I know they mentioned curriculum in the article, but it really is not clear. To me, it sounds like they are learning different types of dance in PE and then having school dances (for fun) where they're hoping the kids will use some of the moves they had learned in class (but the dance is not actually part of the class grade). I think it would be fine to be assigned a partner for class, but I just don't like the feeling of not being allowed to say "no" at a social dance event.

I also don't really see where this policy would eliminate rejection or make kids feel better about themselves overall.

By removing the possibility of "no", the boys will be emboldened to ask girls that they would not normally even consider. So won't all of the pretty/popular girls be receiving all of the invitations? I would think this would make the rest of the girls feel even more rejected and worse about themselves.


I think it's pretty common. I had dances in middle school and my kids did as well.

Most of the ones in our current school district are right after school and there are other activities (food in cafeteria, basketball, etc) so I don't think there's much actual dancing going on. All of the schools do have an 8th grade formal that includes dinner and is more like a traditional dance.

Our elementary schools even have dances, and a more formal 6th grade dance at a restaurant.

 

[NYCgrrl]

My girls are older (21 & 16), but they are extremely opinionated about things like this. I am certain they would have been saying no to everyone just on principle even if it meant there would be disciplinary consequences from the school. There's absolutely no way they would have allowed themselves to be coerced into dancing with someone.

I know they mentioned curriculum in the article, but it really is not clear. To me, it sounds like they are learning different types of dance in PE and then having school dances (for fun) where they're hoping the kids will use some of the moves they had learned in class (but the dance is not actually part of the class grade). I think it would be fine to be assigned a partner for class, but I just don't like the feeling of not being allowed to say "no" at a social dance event.

I also don't really see where this policy would eliminate rejection or make kids feel better about themselves overall.

By removing the possibility of "no", the boys will be emboldened to ask girls that they would not normally even consider. So won't all of the pretty/popular girls be receiving all of the invitations? I would think this would make the rest of the girls feel even more rejected and worse about themselves.


I think it's pretty common. I had dances in middle school and my kids did as well.

Most of the ones in our current school district are right after school and there are other activities (food in cafeteria, basketball, etc) so I don't think there's much actual dancing going on. All of the schools do have an 8th grade formal that includes dinner and is more like a traditional dance.

Our elementary schools even have dances, and a more formal 6th grade dance at a restaurant.

No school coed dances offered until I reached high school and at the time proms were out of fashion so probably 75% of the senior class didn't attend including self. Don't think a junior prom was offered either.
Both of my sons attended middle school outside the US and different ideas prevailed. I do recall learning various dances in gym (the Alley Cat, a Highland fling, and the hora spring to mind) but PE was separated by sex at the time as were performances of them during mandatory weekly auditorium meetings.

 

[wvjules]

I understand a girl's need to say "no" to rape, but this is for a middle school dance lesson and the music lasts what, five minutes per song? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a...ghters-right-to-say-no/ar-BB10sDxR?li=BBnb7Kz

I wouldn't want to dance with a creeper, but how far should the school go to make the guys feel included?

Does anyone say"yes" to rape?

 

[MillauFr]

Does anyone say"yes" to rape?

Agreed. It is shocking to me though how long its taken for people to drop the boys will be boys or locker room talk excuse. I think some people still believe that nonsense. Thankfully it is slowly starting to change.

 

[Turn the Page]

I know very little about this exact situation. I will say that in elementary school, I want to say about 5th grade or so, we were all taught some square dancing. It was during school hours and the entire grade participated. The teachers paired us up with fellow students. I didn't realize being paired up with a fellow student to learn to square dance was contributing to rape culture and violating my autonomy.

 

[mjkacmom]

Who knows what happened. But there is no right or wrong reason. If someone. A kid or not. Doesn’t want to do something with someone. Dance. Movie or whatever. Don’t do it. That’s a personal decision. And no one else’s. To make. I’m not going to dance with someone just to make myself look good or I feel sorry for that person. I would want someone to dance with me because they truly wanted to. Not for any other reason.

Sometimes you do something just to be kind.

 

[wenrob]

I know very little about this exact situation. I will say that in elementary school, I want to say about 5th grade or so, we were all taught some square dancing. It was during school hours and the entire grade participated. The teachers paired us up with fellow students. I didn't realize being paired up with a fellow student to learn to square dance was contributing to rape culture and violating my autonomy.

There’s a difference between being randomly being paired up for a lesson in PE class and being REQUIRED to say “yes” when asked to dance at a school dance. They’re claiming the dance was part of the school curriculum but it was still a dance and not a class. There’s no mention of a lesson. It absolutely does contribute to rape culture and violate autonomy. NO child (or adult for that matter) should be forced to say “yes” to something they do not want to do for whatever reason.

 

[Hikergirl]

Sometimes you do something just to be kind.

Sometimes you have your own personal reasons not too.
Refusing to dance with someone is not unkind.