Member Services Breaking 11 Month Rule!

[KAT4DISNEY]

I might be confused, but no booking would be available for June 17th until July 17th, correct?

Since you can book 11 months out + 7 then someone who had a reservation starting earlier would be able to book the 17th prior to the 17th of July. So June 17th can actually be booked before the 17th of July but it has to be part of a reservation that starts before the 17th.

 

[sethschroeder]

Taken out for maintenance. Happens all the time. DVC isn’t pulling any fast ones. You say they wouldn’t tell you why. That’s because member services isn’t Always notified That far out.

For 1 day?

What in the world could they jot get done between checkout and late check-in that needs that little extra time? Also that far out as well?

Yes we just happen to know there will be a plumbing issue in 11 months lol. Sorry I don't buy it unless it's out multiple days.

 

[Grumpy Mouse]

Been following this thread with some interest.

These booking systems are transactional ones with many, many, simultaneous and near simultaneous requests to the data store. The kind of "glitches" that might occur (and I emphasize "might") would be along the lines of the unavailable access for millisecond time periods, but the software would be designed to handle these issues such that once a transaction begins, it can be completed.

What you describe is not a "glitch". It might be a bug in the software, but funny thing about bugs - they're fairly consistent in their bad behavior. Any bug such as you describe would have been seen and fixed long ago.

What you describe is user intervention, pure and simple. Someone with privileges to override the 11-month lockout rule modified the data store. Whether it was done for maintenance or some other reason of course is not known, but blaming it on some software "glitch" is just nonsense.

The most worrisome part of your story is after you started asking questions and calling for retrieval of DVC member numbers - the "glitch" magically fixed itself.

The more I learn about DVC, the more it smells. Legally, is there any language in the contract between Disney and the DVC member that might allow this behavior? Is this the reason why Disney continues to allow unlimited walking of reservations - to provide some kind of "smoke screen" to some of their own shenanigans?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Been following this thread with some interest.

These booking systems are transactional ones with many, many, simultaneous and near simultaneous requests to the data store. The kind of "glitches" that might occur (and I emphasize "might") would be along the lines of the unavailable access for millisecond time periods, but the software would be designed to handle these issues such that once a transaction begins, it can be completed.

What you describe is not a "glitch". It might be a bug in the software, but funny thing about bugs - they're fairly consistent in their bad behavior. Any bug such as you describe would have been seen and fixed long ago.

What you describe is user intervention, pure and simple. Someone with privileges to override the 11-month lockout rule modified the data store. Whether it was done for maintenance or some other reason of course is not known, but blaming it on some software "glitch" is just nonsense.

The most worrisome part of your story is after you started asking questions and calling for retrieval of DVC member numbers - the "glitch" magically fixed itself.

The more I learn about DVC, the more it smells. Legally, is there any language in the contract between Disney and the DVC member that might allow this behavior? Is this the reason why Disney continues to allow unlimited walking of reservations - to provide some kind of "smoke screen" to some of their own shenanigans?

They have had inventory loading issues in the past. One time they loaded some and had to walk it back. Their ineptness is real and not imagined.

 

[T-i-double-guh-er]

They kept saying that other members had already booked the rooms. No matter how many times I said "They can't have booked 11 months and 2 days unless they also had 11 months and 11 months and one day, and I have one of those rooms reserved. You must be taking a room out of service or booking rooms beyond 11 months" They just replied that other members must have already reserved the room before me.

I had this exact same experience last year with multiple cast members regarding an AKV value 2BR. It was incredibly frustrating.

With the second call, I started out by getting the CM to acknowledge that if I already had the date exactly 11-months out booked, then I should definitely be able to extend my existing reservation. I then asked them to go ahead and make the change for me. Suddenly their answer changed to another member must have already booked the room.

Strangely, it was the 1BR side that was showing as unavailable, not the studio side.

 

[TisBit]

I don't know for sure, but it sounds like there are a decent number of reports of this happening and they are all around reservations that are being walked. There is a possibility that the DVC systems are being set up to monitor reservations being walked and start to block dates temporarily to prevent walking.

Obviously, in order for that to happen they would have to do some coding and it would be a consistent behavior. So they could do it for all reservations or possibly just high demand rooms (GV's, Concierge, etc) and prevent members from walking a reservation indefinitely.

But, outside of that, no one knows how the DVC systems work and there are 100 possible scenarios or situations where the room is not available. Maybe the room was taken out for maintenance and then later released for some VP to book. Technically, not against the rules, but definitely not "fair", although walking reservations could be seen as unfair too. Also, I think we have all seen where all availability is not immediately available at 11 months, as others have eluded to as well. I have seen where availability seems to be added several days or weeks after the 11 month window, especially for high demand dates. Rooms may be rotated through maintenance cycle days throughout the year automatically and then released later when it is determined it is needed or not (or maybe they get an inspection day periodically).

But, the truth is that no one knows and members don't have the right to know who has a reservation in front of them. As members, we have a right to book at 11 months if a room is available, I don't think we have a right to know why there is not availability, even if it is suspect. Outside of actually filing some type of lawsuit and going after Disney to disclose how the systems work and why this might occur, I doubt we will ever know. And, even if that were to happen, we would then only know this one scenario and again their might be 100 more that we don't know why.

 

[Dean]

For applicable resort he fixed weeks could come into play. The other issue is that 2 BR lockout's could be an issue. Someone with s 2 BR can make less studios & 1 BR available and vice versa. I'd call corporate.

 

[drusba]

I don't know for sure, but it sounds like there are a decent number of reports of this happening and they are all around reservations that are being walked. There is a possibility that the DVC systems are being set up to monitor reservations being walked and start to block dates temporarily to prevent walking.

Obviously, in order for that to happen they would have to do some coding and it would be a consistent behavior. So they could do it for all reservations or possibly just high demand rooms (GV's, Concierge, etc) and prevent members from walking a reservation indefinitely.

But, outside of that, no one knows how the DVC systems work and there are 100 possible scenarios or situations where the room is not available. Maybe the room was taken out for maintenance and then later released for some VP to book. Technically, not against the rules, but definitely not "fair", although walking reservations could be seen as unfair too. Also, I think we have all seen where all availability is not immediately available at 11 months, as others have eluded to as well. I have seen where availability seems to be added several days or weeks after the 11 month window, especially for high demand dates. Rooms may be rotated through maintenance cycle days throughout the year automatically and then released later when it is determined it is needed or not (or maybe they get an inspection day periodically).

But, the truth is that no one knows and members don't have the right to know who has a reservation in front of them. As members, we have a right to book at 11 months if a room is available, I don't think we have a right to know why there is not availability, even if it is suspect. Outside of actually filing some type of lawsuit and going after Disney to disclose how the systems work and why this might occur, I doubt we will ever know. And, even if that were to happen, we would then only know this one scenario and again their might be 100 more that we don't know why.

Doubt it has anything to do with DVC doing something about walking. Events I have seen occur were not just recent but also occurred a number of years ago before walking became an issue of significance, including the one I described above where the Jambo GVs were booked full for the Wed to Fri of Thanksgiving week despite that they were open the Monday and Tuesday 11-months out from the Monday. Moreover, walking had nothing to do with that problem since the Jambo GVs have otherwise never had any issue of disappearing quickly at 11-months out. And there is no way I would ever believe DVC had planned for some GVs to be out of service 11-months in advance of those particular dates. That incident did not, like some others, clear itself up by the GVs becoming open for those nights later in the day 11-months out from the Monday, or 11-months out from the Tues or Wed.

Moreover, as to members' right to know the reasons for the oddity, that may not be expressly spelled out in the POS documents but the POS documents do have provisions under which DVD agrees to be bound by the same rules applicable to making reservations as members (see, e.g., §3.7 of the BWV DVC Membership Agreement, which agreement gives DVCM the power to make reservation rules applicable to home resort reservations and DVD expressly agrees to follow such rules that are applicable to all Club Members), and in that sense members have a right to know if that agreement is being violated. DVCM, the management company which controls the 11-month reservation system, is a fiduciary to the members, and members thus have a right to know if DVCM is acting improperly by allowing any reservations to be made more than 11-months out, or doing something even more sinister by taking rooms out-of service more than 11-months out just so DVD can later rent them.

Nevertheless, I agree that getting a straight answer from DVD/DVC is unlikely, particularly in this modern age when it has continuously proven itself to be anti-member, such as in its treatment of resale purchasers, and in its attempt to raise points needed year round for studios and 1BRs when DVC issued the initial 2020 point charts.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

And MS in particular won't be helpful with answers. This is way beyond their training.

 

[Roughians_satchel]

What are the rules regarding DVC's slush fund of points that they rent out for cash (from people transferring)? Can they hold a room for cash beyond the 11 months?

 

[Sandisw]

What are the rules regarding DVC's slush fund of points that they rent out for cash (from people transferring)? Can they hold a room for cash beyond the 11 months?

I believe that rooms attached to owners trading out of DVC to things like cruises, etc. go at the time of the trade,

So, if someone books that more than 11 months, the room can go then. There is also something in my RIV POS that says they can anticipate inventory and take it. While it doesn’t mention it specifically, it does appear they may have some leeway given this clause as well.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

Well, the same thing is happening to me but with two AKV value studios. I have one with a checkout date of July 23 and one with a checkout date of July 24. I am trying to move both to July 22-29. No such luck! The 23rd-26th is booked. These nights happen to be a Friday-Monday. I have spoken to MS twice with no luck. First person told me that there are very few of these rooms. Yes, I know. There are 10 value studios and I have 2 of them. But no one should be able to book my two rooms for the 23rd since that's 11 months and 1 day. She couldn't explain it, all she said was it was booked. Next call, I'm told that someone could have booked days before me and booked up to 7 nights. Yes, that's right, but they would be booking another room, not my two rooms. I was repeatedly told that it was possible to which I responded that it is impossible. All I got was "I'm not going to fight with you." Why would you as a customer service representative use that term? I was not raising my voice at all, not fighting, just trying to understand how someone could book my room more than 11 months out. Anyway, I was told I couldn't speak to a supervisor, all that could be done was a form could be filled out and a supervisor could call me back in 7 days. This is the worst customer service I've ever had with DVC. I'm going to continue to try to modify today, and if that doesn't work I will do what the OP did and just try to book again. So frustrating!

 

[zavandor]

Well, the same thing is happening to me but with two AKV value studios. I have one with a checkout date of July 23 and one with a checkout date of July 24. I am trying to move both to July 22-29. No such luck! The 23rd-26th is booked. These nights happen to be a Friday-Monday. I have spoken to MS twice with no luck. First person told me that there are very few of these rooms. Yes, I know. There are 10 value studios and I have 2 of them. But no one should be able to book my two rooms for the 23rd since that's 11 months and 1 day. She couldn't explain it, all she said was it was booked. Next call, I'm told that someone could have booked days before me and booked up to 7 nights. Yes, that's right, but they would be booking another room, not my two rooms. I was repeatedly told that it was possible to which I responded that it is impossible. All I got was "I'm not going to fight with you." Why would you as a customer service representative use that term? I was not raising my voice at all, not fighting, just trying to understand how someone could book my room more than 11 months out. Anyway, I was told I couldn't speak to a supervisor, all that could be done was a form could be filled out and a supervisor could call me back in 7 days. This is the worst customer service I've ever had with DVC. I'm going to continue to try to modify today, and if that doesn't work I will do what the OP did and just try to book again. So frustrating!

Tell them you're going to write to the Florida regulators denouncing that DVCMC is violating the 11 months booking window rule at the expense of members and that you are going to include in your report the conversions you had with Customer Services in which you reported the issue and they failed to act on it.
Not sure who is the best office to write to, sorry, but others might.
If it happened to me I would do it.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

Tell them you're going to write to the Florida regulators denouncing that DVCMC is violating the 11 months booking window rule at the expense of members and that you are going to include in your report the conversions you had with Customer Services in which you reported the issue and they failed to act on it.
Not sure who is the best office to write to, sorry, but others might.
If it happened to me I would do it.

Thank you for the information. I'm not sure the CMs at MS would even know what this means. It's so frustrating that most of them don't even understand how the product works. Nothing I could say could convince the one that it's impossible that someone who booked days earlier would move into my room halfway through their trip. All I kept getting was "It's entirely possible."

 

[Dean]

Well, the same thing is happening to me but with two AKV value studios. I have one with a checkout date of July 23 and one with a checkout date of July 24. I am trying to move both to July 22-29. No such luck! The 23rd-26th is booked. These nights happen to be a Friday-Monday. I have spoken to MS twice with no luck. First person told me that there are very few of these rooms. Yes, I know. There are 10 value studios and I have 2 of them. But no one should be able to book my two rooms for the 23rd since that's 11 months and 1 day. She couldn't explain it, all she said was it was booked. Next call, I'm told that someone could have booked days before me and booked up to 7 nights. Yes, that's right, but they would be booking another room, not my two rooms. I was repeatedly told that it was possible to which I responded that it is impossible. All I got was "I'm not going to fight with you." Why would you as a customer service representative use that term? I was not raising my voice at all, not fighting, just trying to understand how someone could book my room more than 11 months out. Anyway, I was told I couldn't speak to a supervisor, all that could be done was a form could be filled out and a supervisor could call me back in 7 days. This is the worst customer service I've ever had with DVC. I'm going to continue to try to modify today, and if that doesn't work I will do what the OP did and just try to book again. So frustrating!

I bet they decided to limit the number of studios vs 2 BR for this time thus making more studios available earlier and less later.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

I bet they decided to limit the number of studios vs 2 BR for this time thus making more studios available earlier and less later.

Are you saying that people may have booked 2-BR values for those dates, thus eliminating the studios? There are two dedicated studios though. How does that affect existing reservations?

 

[Dean]

Are you saying that people may have booked 2-BR values for those dates, thus eliminating the studios? There are two dedicated studios though. How does that affect existing reservations?

I mentioned that as a possibility earlier and it could be but what I was saying is that they could have just designated a certain # of 2 BR vs studios/1BR on their end. Historically they've done this routinely though it's been a few years since they appear to have done so to any scale. I know other timeshare that do so as well, esp when the balance of booking is out of what orphaning certain portions of the lockoff. I had this very issue in reverse at a Marriott resort this fall where they'd limited the number of units that could be locked off because of the availably of studios that were not being booked. As for the dedicated vs lockoff, do you know if your studio is one or the other?

 

[Sandisw]

Are you saying that people may have booked 2-BR values for those dates, thus eliminating the studios? There are two dedicated studios though. How does that affect existing reservations?

If you book a room at 11 months, the room can’t be taken out for booking by anyone but Disney.

Now, if Disney has decided to start the lock off on a certain day, that may be what Dean was referring to?

I have to keep searching but I read somewhere that Disney May have the power to book on different terms and when I read it, it surprised me but implied they are not required to follow same booking rules as other owners. Based on most here, I probably misunderstood.

But, if you have Room A booked, then that room can not be booked by another owner until you check out and it can’t be part of a 2 bedroom lock off until the day you check out.

Again, they can pull for marketing purposes, maintenance, and anticipated availability. I really think these individual nights going missing is a glitch of some sort because the initial one this thread was about showed up the next day.

 

[sethschroeder]

I mentioned that as a possibility earlier and it could be but what I was saying is that they could have just designated a certain # of 2 BR vs studios/1BR on their end. Historically they've done this routinely though it's been a few years since they appear to have done so to any scale. I know other timeshare that do so as well, esp when the balance of booking is out of what orphaning certain portions of the lockoff. I had this very issue in reverse at a Marriott resort this fall where they'd limited the number of units that could be locked off because of the availably of studios that were not being booked. As for the dedicated vs lockoff, do you know if your studio is one or the other?

Now them doing it might be a thing but is there any language that outlines they can do this?

I just looked I see lockoff defined and how points work but there is not a specific term of them being able to "disable" lockoff. Seems like this would be against the terms as it would be for the purpose of having people use more points only since orphan rooms are not exactly a thing in dvc since the "orphan" can be booked as a single night.

 

[Dean]

If you book a room at 11 months, the room can’t be taken out for booking by anyone but Disney.

Now, if Disney has decided to start the lock off on a certain day, that may be what Dean was referring to?

I have to keep searching but I read somewhere that Disney May have the power to book on different terms and when I read it, it surprised me but implied they are not required to follow same booking rules as other owners. Based on most here, I probably misunderstood.

But, if you have Room A booked, then that room can not be booked by another owner until you check out and it can’t be part of a 2 bedroom lock off until the day you check out.

Again, they can pull for marketing purposes, maintenance, and anticipated availability. I really think these individual nights going missing is a glitch of some sort because the initial one this thread was about showed up the next day.

Yes, both are possible but it was Disney deciding how many for the period that I was specifically referring to.

I think both options could get the poster in this situation, 2 BR booked and Disney limiting the numbers, it was the later I was referring to.
Now them doing it might be a thing but is there any language that outlines they can do this?

Yes, it says they have complete control over the reservation procedures plus they've done so in the past. And there's nothing that says they can't.