MD dropping out of all insurance plans

While it is clear to me that you like a good debate, I'd go back and check the statement you are commenting on. The two people I quoted indicated that ED's could refuse treatment. This is not true.
And I agree with that... what I was pointing out is that there is a very high cost to that - I listed precisely how much - and I pointed out that people who did pay for their own care covered the cost of those that don't, but are still granted care due to that tenet you pointed out.


exactly - the name is bicker for a reason...
And what useless banality can we post with regard to your user name? Stick to the topic: heath care.
 
And I agree with that... what I was pointing out is that there is a very high cost to that - I listed precisely how much - and I pointed out that people who did pay for their own care covered the cost of those that don't, but are still granted care due to that tenet you pointed out.


And what useless banality can we post with regard to your user name? Stick to the topic: heath care.

Well, to reduce costs effectively we're going to have to ration and/or determine where people can get care for what....are you open to that? That's what happens in other countries which have shifted the cost burden into the public sector. For example, in England Swine flu is back and sweeping through the country right now. Infection rates have raised about 40% in a week. One of the primary causes is that the National Health Service decided NOT to vaccinate children under 6...as a cost saving measure.

Our system is far from perfect, but much of the issue is a culture in our country which will not accept rationing and stipulations on where, with whom, you receive care. Changing culture is a mammoth task that is particularly ineffective when you're talking about health habits. It's great to talk about wellness and prevention, but it's not in the nature of many Americans. We need a unique solution to our unique issues. Let's stop letting politicians deal with this and get a bunch of experts into the room who actually work the trenches. If you haven't worked an ED on a Monday night, you have NO idea what it's like in the trenches.

As for Medicare...it's unsustainable in it's current form. The sad thing is that most of America doesn't know how many cost controls and denials have already be instituted in the program. One small example is the federal institution of "observation" for patients in the hospital. You're in the hospital, you're in a regular hospital room, but you are NOT an admitted patient (based on federal clinical guidelines)....that means that medicare will not cover what they consider to be "over the counter medications" (like insulin) but the hospital (because of other federal regulations) can't let you take your own from home. That means the that the patient has to pay out of pocket (at the hospital rates....HIGH) for the medication they receive while in the hospital. Because you're admitted, you also don't qualify for the three day mandate...so any long term care is not covered in any way by Medicare after the hospitalization...saves the Feds a boatload of money....bankrupts patients.
 
Well, to reduce costs effectively we're going to have to ration and/or determine where people can get care for what....
.... or trade-off some other expenses for these, all-the-while also facing the prospect of everything being more costly because of a declining global advantage.

are you open to that?
First: A categorical rejection of change is a forceful endorsement of the unfairness and daily tragedy of our current system. Are you open to that?

Second: There are two sides to the equation: costs and revenues. I've already addressed, elsewhere in this thread, matters of fairness on the revenue-side (people who can afford care should pay for it, rather than have the public pay for it - and affordability should be determined before factoring-in discretionary spending).

Third: Remember that we're already rationing care. At this point, the rationing is, at least to some extent, based on affluence. Changing things so that the rationing we're already doing is based a bit less on affluence and a bit more on a generally-accepted metric of likely impact on quality of life is an interesting idea, that I can't find fault with (but only phrased that way, including the specific trade-off I mentioned, and with the clear qualifications that I included, especially that it is a "bit" of a change toward a better balance, not a quantum shift from one extreme to another).

Fourth: There are no simple answers. Anyone who thinks there is a simple answer to anything in this realm is foolish. The only simple aspect to this is that there is something, now, that isn't fair. However, it is craven to avoid working to address an issue because you fear that the answers aren't simple, that the path isn't clear, that the result isn't guaranteed to be positive.

Our system is far from perfect, but much of the issue is a culture in our country which will not accept rationing and stipulations on where, with whom, you receive care. Changing culture is a mammoth task that is particularly ineffective when you're talking about health habits. It's great to talk about wellness and prevention, but it's not in the nature of many Americans. We need a unique solution to our unique issues.
ITA.

Let's stop letting politicians deal with this and get a bunch of experts into the room who actually work the trenches.
And what happens when, as is inevitable, they disagree with each other? In a way, the "get a bunch of experts into the room" approach is too simple. It ignores the realities of the complexity of the issue, that you outlined so well in your previous paragraph.

If you haven't worked an ED on a Monday night, you have NO idea what it's like in the trenches.
And if you have, then you'll be far too biased in that direction. There's a reason why judges are chosen so as to be impartial. What's missing here isn't the ED's perspective. What's missing here is the leadership that would be able to pull-together the vast array of different perspectives into a cohesive, consistent and equitable path forward. However, again, there is no simple answer.

And one of the most troubling aspects of the fact that there are no simple answers is that there may not be any answer. That's something that no one has broached yet in this thread, but it is a reality of life that we all have to come to understand and accept, even if it radically undercuts our hopes and dreams. It is very possible that this aspect of our society is going to suck badly (averaged over all people) no matter what we do, and that all we can hope to do is move the shells around a bit so that different people gain advantage at different times, or that perhaps advantage is spread more evenly (which is perhaps the most defensible approach).

And even if there is no answer, that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop seeking one.
 
We are already paying at a state level for uninsured health care. IMO a national plan with increased membership will result in better cost sharing and improve cost and benefits. It will also add a level of protection and security for all of us.

Any plan that requires an additional 18,000 to 20,000 new IRS agents to implement, tells me everything I need to know about it.
 

Any plan that requires an additional 18,000 to 20,000 new IRS agents to implement, tells me everything I need to know about it.
I can't find anything official that corroberates your statement. Do you mind posting a link?
 
I understand your choosing the doctor who you felt was best for you, regardless of if they file or not...but... the better care is not the result of his refusal to file insurance, it is in spite of his not filing insurance.

Even with your example it is only staff time and care that is possibly affected, not physicians time or his level of care. He could choose to hire more staff to handle the insurance paperwork ( full or part time). Your level of care debate is only relative to adequate administrative staffing not physician time. This is still an economic decision for the physician. Filing paperwork is certainly the choice of each physician. I choose to support the physicians that provide this service for me. I feel that it is of great benefit to me when I am ill, not to have to deal with filing a lot of insurance paperwork and tracking reimbursements. (I am especially thankful to those who will check to see if I am covered for a certain test or procedure.) To me those are the physicians who are giving me a better level of care and I understand that they have costs associated with this. I thank those physicians who care enough to do this for me by seeking their service and recommending them to others.

Agree completely. It is administrative time, not a md's or rn's time and it doesn't affect anyone's level of care.
 
Agree completely. It is administrative time, not a md's or rn's time and it doesn't affect anyone's level of care.

False

While it is administrative time, if a doctor has to see MORE patients to make up the cost of administration because the insurance companies are paying less than the overhead, quality of care WILL decrease as a direct impact of the increase in patients seen.
 
And I agree with that... what I was pointing out is that there is a very high cost to that - I listed precisely how much - and I pointed out that people who did pay for their own care covered the cost of those that don't, but are still granted care due to that tenet you pointed out.


And what useless banality can we post with regard to your user name? Stick to the topic: heath care.
really?????
:lmao::lmao:one can only imagine........................
 
A little OT but the State of MA just okayed increased penalties for higher-income uninsured. I think what they consider as higher income is a joke. A family of 4 making $66K would be fine in most states but they can certainly be struggling here in MA. In that case, they can be fined $700 per year for a 2 parent household if they do not have insurance. The article is here. I had no idea the amount of money MA was making off of the penalties. It says in 2008 those penalized had paid $13 million to the state. I am now changing my mind...I don't think this should be used as a building block at all. I think it needs an overhaul!

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/n...creased-penalties-for-higher-income-uninsured
 
That money goes back into the system, to support state services, so the more cheaters they fine the better, afaic.

And families of four making $66K per year should be buying health insurance, rather than relying on EMTLA (for example), and shifting those medical expenses onto the rest of us.

The system is working, and that frustrates those who want things their way to no end.
 


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