MCO to begin using the new scanners within next 2-3 weeks

[ExPirateShopGirl]

Nothing is ever 100%. I certainly never took the position that it was. I don't believe for 2 seconds that full body image scans can't be saved or retrieved for use later.

Again, this varies not only by airport but by terminals within the airport. Since some employees can bypass screening if they are not going on a flight, what is to prevent them from carrying harmful items to be passed on to another that is flying.

Too many of us "feel" safe because we and our families (small kids, grandma, etc) are subjected to multiple screening processes, but the hard reality is that the process does not make us safer from someone intent on harm.

I will not let myself of any member of my family to be subjected to the full body scanners. The government assures me it is safe? The agency in charge says the images will never be available for outsiders to see? That has not been the case.

 

[kaytieeldr]

How do we know that tsa agent looking at your daughter on the scanner is not a pedophile.

Presumption of innocence until proven guilty? The fact that virtually all TSA hirings to this point predate the use of the image scanners combined with that they ARE images and not photographs - photographs and more being readily available online, along with only a very few TSA personnel viewing the actual images? That harassment and other simple/common working rules and conditions would tend to have the typical sex offender NOT use any work equipment???? Common sense?

All our phone calls are recorded.

Okay... Can be isn't the same as are.

The government spies on our computers. They probably track what we say on this board. There are cameras everywhere.

Again, just There seems to be far too much paranoia. The government spies on our computers? Really? The only entity that cares what's said on the DIS boards, aside from its owners, would be Disney itself. Sure, they have people who check internet forums - but contrary to popular belief, Disney isn't the government, has no control over the government (or the TSA)...

 

[Lewisc]

Some people claim the scanner takes "nudie pictures". I'm confused. I thought passengers going through the scanner aren't required to remove their clothing. The scans aren't in color. Don't show skin. I don't see how you could identify a person from the scan. You don't see eye color, hair color, skin color etc. Can you even tell if the passenger has hair from the scans?

Are the scans the kind of images that pedophiles are interested in? There are a lot of jobs I'd think a pedophile might be interested in. Working for the TSA, looking at scans, isn't one of them.
The scan of an adult female doesn't do anything for me.

Several sources, including a TSA employee in this thread, confirmed that people watching the scans are isolated.

An abundance of evidence suggest the amount of radiation is negligable. I might understand some concern by airport employees who might be scanned several times a day or TSA employees stationed next to the machine.

I'm not saying they are at risk, only that I could understand their concern.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Nothing is ever 100%. I certainly never took the position that it was. I don't believe for 2 seconds that full body image scans can't be saved or retrieved for use later.

True and agreed - but I do believe and trust that as a matter of standard policy they won't be (saved/stored/retreived for later use).

 

[deegack]

True and agreed - but I do believe and trust that as a matter of standard policy they won't be (saved/stored/retreived for later use).

Well, the US Marshall Service who uses the same millimeter wave machines has admitted to saving tens of thousands of these images taken when people entered some federal courthouses.

The ability to save has been disabled (or so they say) on the machines. The specs for the bid on the machines specifically call for the ability to save images. Logically, they would want the ability to save images. Imagine the situation that bomb making material gets past the machines. If they know who the person is, they would want to review security footage, figure out approximately when he went through security and pull up his image.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html

I don't think that big brother is monitoring the disboards, but there are thousands of americans whose phones have been unconstitutionally tapped and recorded all under the Patriot Act umbrella.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Some people claim the scanner takes "nudie pictures". I'm confused. I thought passengers going through the scanner aren't required to remove their clothing. The scans aren't in color. Don't show skin. I don't see how you could identify a person from the scan. You don't see eye color, hair color, skin color etc. Can you even tell if the passenger has hair from the scans?

Are the scans the kind of images that pedophiles are interested in? There are a lot of jobs I'd think a pedophile might be interested in. Working for the TSA, looking at scans, isn't one of them.
The scan of an adult female doesn't do anything for me.

Several sources, including a TSA employee in this thread, confirmed that people watching the scans are isolated.

An abundance of evidence suggest the amount of radiation is negligable. I might understand some concern by airport employees who might be scanned several times a day or TSA employees stationed next to the machine.

I'm not saying they are at risk, only that I could understand their concern.

But, the fact is that the scanners see under/through your clothes and the images show the size of one's genitals and secondary sex characteristics (trying to stay family friendly here), hence the nickname nude-o-scope.

As far as some pp being a TSA employee, you only know what a poster claims. And just how does being "isolated" prevent him/her from getting jollies? Wouldn't it be better to have the TSA viewer visible to the public to assure us of professional behavior?

Remember those A bomb test pictures with the draftee soldiers out there with sunglasses during the blasts? Remember being told that Agent Orange was safe. Skepticism about the safety of the scanners is warrented.

What's your take on why TSA employees screened aren't each time they enter the "sterile area?"

 

[deegack]

oh just another point - when these first came out, TSA swore up and down they would only be used for secondary screening. Now they are used for primary screening. How much of a leap would it be to switch them to save mode in a few months after people get use to it.

 

[padawans]

Okay...I truly don't want to start something here, but really??? All our phone calls are recorded?? Our computers are spied on by the govt?? It's comments like these that take away credibility from posters. Does anyone, really, think our phones are all monitored??? I grew up in the 60's, a true child of the 'never trust the govt' movement. But even I don't think that there are people sitting in cubicles tracking what I am saying here, or listening in on my phone calls, or monitoring my text messages or whatever. Of course, this could be the reason nothing of any importance gets done in Washington!!

There are plenty of 'sleeper cells' here in this country..with people that are flying way under the radar. The govt has no idea who, or where, they are. If the govt were as all knowing as you seem to think, we would have found the major terrorists by now. Believe me..they aren't 'that' good.

It's not about being anti-government it's about being proconstitution. You may wan't to educate yourself on the patriot act, the obama care bill dig around a little bit you might be surprised what you come up with. Even if you not proconstitution you will find it interesting none the less. I doubt their are people sitting in cubicles monitering you, but if they wan't to they can easy peasy. I also have faith in our intelligence agencies to find bad guys. Not the tsa. If you haven't noticed there is a little thing going on in this country called the tea party. Full of millions of nut jobs like myself who wan't our constitution restored.

 

[goofy4tink]

It's not about being anti-government it's about being proconstitution. You may wan't to educate yourself on the patriot act, the obama care bill dig around a little bit you might be surprised what you come up with. Even if you not proconstitution you will find it interesting none the less. I doubt their are people sitting in cubicles monitering you, but if they wan't to they can easy peasy. I also have faith in our intelligence agencies to find bad guys. Not the tsa. If you haven't noticed there is a little thing going on in this country called the tea party. Full of millions of nut jobs like myself who wan't our constitution restored.

I'm sure the ability, and intelligence, to track my every move is out there. But, who would want to?
I am not an unintelligent person. I am not all that liberal...tend to be more conservative the older I get. Yup...I was there, on the front lines in the 60's, picketing colleges and such, marching for rights. I get it, I truly do.
But...I just don't see any need to get up in arms about airport security. Yes, there is big money behind all this. And yes, if those who wish to change the system want to change it, they certainly should be allowed to. I have no issue with that...go for it.
But, I'm not getting my panties in a twist because I have to go through a scanner at the airport. I'm sure there's a bit, and I do mean a bit, more radiation involved. But, with things the way they are at the moment, there are bigger fish to fry. Maybe we need to depend a lot less on fossil fuels..otherwise, all the radiation in the airports is going to become a moot point. Seriously.

 

[padawans]

I'm sure the ability, and intelligence, to track my every move is out there. But, who would want to?
I am not an unintelligent person. I am not all that liberal...tend to be more conservative the older I get. Yup...I was there, on the front lines in the 60's, picketing colleges and such, marching for rights. I get it, I truly do.
But...I just don't see any need to get up in arms about airport security. Yes, there is big money behind all this. And yes, if those who wish to change the system want to change it, they certainly should be allowed to. I have no issue with that...go for it.
But, I'm not getting my panties in a twist because I have to go through a scanner at the airport. I'm sure there's a bit, and I do mean a bit, more radiation involved. But, with things the way they are at the moment, there are bigger fish to fry. Maybe we need to depend a lot less on fossil fuels..otherwise, all the radiation in the airports is going to become a moot point. Seriously.

We all pick our battles. I'm sure you have picked yours. My panties are not in a bind over this. This is a fun debate. I am pro government just not pro what they have done over the last 20 years. I worry about the government becoming to powerful, I worry about an economic collapse. I worry about the falling dollar, I worry about a lot of things, but not about the radiation I recieve or someone getting their jollies from the scanners. I am against the scanners because I believe its unconstitional, unnessarily invasive, and unnessary for our safety. It goes against my core beliefs. I have read numerous articles about groups fighting this from privacy groups to religious groups to others. The Eu thinks are security measures are ridiculous and invasive. To us being patted down or xrayed may not be a big deal, but you have to respect people that don't like this. It is your body after all. I know people don't have to fly and maybe we will see less people flying. Air travel has suffered greatly since 911. I would like to see policies that helped our economy not hurt it further.

 

[goofy4tink]

We all pick our battles. I'm sure you have picked yours. My panties are not in a bind over this. This is a fun debate. I am pro government just not pro what they have done over the last 20 years. I worry about the government becoming to powerful, I worry about an economic collapse. I worry about the falling dollar, I worry about a lot of things, but not about the radiation I recieve or someone getting their jollies from the scanners. I am against the scanners because I believe its unconstitional, unnessarily invasive, and unnessary for our safety. It goes against my core beliefs. I have read numerous articles about groups fighting this from privacy groups to religious groups to others. The Eu thinks are security measures are ridiculous and invasive. To us being patted down or xrayed may not be a big deal, but you have to respect people that don't like this. It is your body after all. I know people don't have to fly and maybe we will see less people flying. Air travel has suffered greatly since 911. I would like to see policies that helped our economy not hurt it further.

I have absolutely no argument with what you said here...actually agree with most of it, if not all.
I also tend to worry about the 'all powerful govt'...there seems to be a tendency lately to grab as much power, in whatever area possible, by the govt.
While I have no big issue with the various types of screening, you are right. Not really all that sure they do all that much to prevent terrorism. I suppose that if only one terrorist attempt is stopped due to these screenings, most of those here would agree that they are worthwhile. But, as in everything the govt does, we will never really ever know.

TSA people behaving badly??? I've been lucky so far. Sure, I've had a few testy TSA workers, but they are in the minority. Most have been very personable and pleasant. I have not run into any power-grabbing types yet. But of course, that will be what happens when I fly in Dec.
I have seen what some of them have to put up with. Yeah, the rules can be stupid, but they are the rules we have to deal with. Arguing about them, in the security line, is not going to help. It hinders everyone, it holds those behind you up and it really puts TSA workers in a bad mood.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Lord knows how unwise it is to put a TSAer in a bad mood.

Just suck it up and follow orders when processing through the government checkpoint.

 

[N965VJ]

The TSA requires only employees who are flying to be screened, but it sounds like your husband's employing airline has stricter rules. That's their prerogative.

I am not calling you a liar, I am merely pointing out the fact that your employer allowed you to break the law... probably for the purpose of facilitating your movement through the airport and on to the aircraft. Laws are now in place that eliminate those past practices.

Sorry, no. Airline employees, including flight crews, can bypass the checkpoint for administrative convenience. A few months ago a Delta FA bypassed security in ATL with a firearm in her bag. It was discovered the next day when she tried to go through the checkpoint in IND. This was certainly not the first time an airline or TSA employee has tried to bypass the checkpoint with a prohibited item, but nothing has ever been done to close this gap in security.

 

[N965VJ]

How do we know that tsa agent looking at your daughter on the scanner is not a pedophile.

Presumption of innocence until proven guilty? The fact that virtually all TSA hirings to this point predate the use of the image scanners combined with that they ARE images and not photographs - photographs and more being readily available online, along with only a very few TSA personnel viewing the actual images?

There is a never-ending stream of TSA employees arrested for theft, attempted murder, rape, etc. All of these Isolated Instances™ have been written off by TSA apologists as just a few Bad Apples™.

The fact that virtually all TSA hirings to this point predate the use of the image scanners combined with that they ARE images and not photographs - photographs and more being readily available online, along with only a very few TSA personnel viewing the actual images?

The TSA has added ~10,000 employees this year in anticipation of staffing levels needed for the Nude-O-Scope. Even with not having a high school diploma as a requirement, the TSA has had to resort to advertising jobs on pizza boxes, promising new hires would get “x-ray” vision.

 

[kaytieeldr]

There is a never-ending stream of TSA employees arrested for theft, attempted murder, rape, etc. All of these Isolated Instances™ have been written off by TSA apologists as just a few Bad Apples™.

When did "isolated instances" and "bad apples" get trademarked, and by whom and for what purpose?

eta: I'm not calling out or picking on the quoted poster's words because I have no response to what he/she stated; I genuinely want to know when these two VERY common expressions were trademarked and some information behind that.

 

[N965VJ]

Some people claim the scanner takes "nudie pictures". I'm confused. I thought passengers going through the scanner aren't required to remove their clothing. The scans aren't in color. Don't show skin. I don't see how you could identify a person from the scan. You don't see eye color, hair color, skin color etc. Can you even tell if the passenger has hair from the scans?

Are the scans the kind of images that pedophiles are interested in?

There is such a thing as an x-ray fetish, and now to satisfy ones kink they no longer have to spend the time and money to become a medical technician, just answer one of the many ads for TSA screening clerk employment.

Police suspect tech used X-rays, mammograms for sexual gratification

BRIMFIELD, Ohio — A technician at a Tiffin imaging center caught driving with a stash of X-rays, mammograms, videos and pictures of women and children used the images for sexual gratification, police believe.

Jaime Aguirre, 42, of Willard, had hundreds of the images in his car when he was stopped Sunday in the township on a traffic violation, officers said. He was held in Portage County Jail in lieu of posting $250,000 bond. He is charged with four counts of possession of child pornography.

An abundance of evidence suggest the amount of radiation is negligable.

Lifetime radiation exposure is cumulative. Also, Several University of California, San Francisco faculty members delivered a letter of concern to the TSA noting that the comparison of backscatter X-ray machine dosage to "cosmic ray exposure inherent to airplane travel or that of a chest X-ray" is "very misleading" and have noted that "real independent safety data do not exist".

 

[pr surfer]

When did "isolated instances" and "bad apples" get trademarked, and by whom and for what purpose?

eta: I'm not calling out or picking on the quoted poster's words because I have no response to what he/she stated; I genuinely want to know when these two VERY common expressions were trademarked and some information behind that.

They weren't trademarked. It's a criticism of the TSA due to their overuse of those phrases in the TSA blog and in their press releases.

Among the other phrases which are abused by them which people use the TM with: 9/11, abundance of caution, layers of security, and multi-layered approach.

My personal favorites are Blogdad Bob and Francine the Googling Lawyer.