Love to Hate Disney?

[Alice Royal]

I think this thread can be summed up with a simple equation

Value = Guest Satisfaction - Cost

This is a very subjective equation. However, when the result becomes 0 or negative people will spend their money elsewhere. As the result approaches zero people will become more critical of what they are getting for what they pay for.

I for one am closer to 0 than a lot on this board which is why it has been a while since I have gone, and will get critical when I see true entertainment that used to be included in the price of admission be reduced, removed or replaced with something less impressive.

Even if you are at a much higher number, never be afraid to express your discontent. Don't just do it on these boards, write them a letter. Probably more importantly if there is something you absolutely love, make sure you tell the company before you hear they are shutting it down.

I edge closer and closer every time I visit and every time I visit other parks in the area (dedicated Universal AP and future Team Member, here). For now, the cost is so low as a resident who carpools in with friends that it still works out. I'm hoping this coming weekend's announcements keep it all worth it.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

As already explained, true as in true for that individual. Sorry for any confusion.

Right, true opinion for one can be completely offset by a true opinion of another. And an opinion of one can also be offset by an opinion of another. Not sure if there is such thing as a false opinion or not, but same rule would apply IMO / IMTO.

 

[Teamubr]

I Remember once there were like three threads in a row we agreed on stuff...it was kind of scary!)

I remember that too. Thought I was in some kind of parallel universe or something.

j

 

[Planogirl]

I still think I am.

 

[Bolt4Life17]

I think the Internet, and message boards specifically are a breeding ground for negativity. Maybe I don't notice, but I don't see as much outright hate on here, but I do see frustration and disappointment.

I agree completely with you. I am 25 now and have been using message boards (forums) since I was 14. People use forums to rant and complain more than praise.

However, this place does not compare one bit to an NFL forum. I have been on the Chargers.com forums since 2004 and I also explore other teams forums. Sports fans are extremely negative and a majority of posters only show up when there is something to complain about; not to mention their complaining is extremely exaggerated and unrealistic a lot of the times compared to actual facts. They disappear when things are going good.

Something else I notice about the internet forums is the prevalence of the internet has turned a lot of posters into, "I told you so!" type posters. So they throw a ton of stuff on the wall, then when they finally get something right you never hear the end of it.

 

[ChrisFL]

The DIS is, in general, WAY more positive than most, and a majority of the people posting LOVE Disney and WDW extensively.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, however I do think it is important that some people on here DO put things into perspective and give people the non-pixie dust version of things. There's been a lot of changes that happened at WDW that are negative.....that isn't a "hating Disney" problem, it's a "hating the direction of WDW" problem. You may sometimes find mention of the acronym TDO. This stands for Team Disney Orlando and is basically the team that makes the decisions for the WDW resort (except for the largest expansions, like the new Fantasyland).

I am very critical of WDW, but my favorite resort in the world is Tokyo Disney Resort. Although it only has two parks, the quality of everything and the pace of additions and new things is much better than WDW. Yes, Tokyo is NOT owned by Disney, which is part of the reason, but even Disneyland in Anaheim has seen a lot of great additions in the past decade.

Why is WDW dragging its proverbial feet with every new addition? 6+ years for Avatar...only the fourth major attraction for Animal Kingdom since it opened in 1998? Why not put in a few dark rides with A/C and nice slow-moving (read: not bumpy, high speed or in the dark) dark rides based on their NUMEROUS properties that feature animals?

Epcot hasn't seen a new attraction since Soarin' in Future World, Universe of Energy is falling apart, Wonders of Life shuttered, several parts of Innoventions are now closed, Captain EO should have had a replacement already.....etc.

DHS is...well, we all know the status of DHS. The question is whether it will get anything substantial within the next 5 years or not.

So, yes, you'll see a lot of negative posts, but what is there that's positive to talk about? Hopefully D23 will show us something!!

 

[socrateze]

Why is WDW dragging its proverbial feet with every new addition?

I think it's because they wasted...oh, I mean invested 1.5- 2.5 billion in MDE.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Right, true opinion for one can be completely offset by a true opinion of another. And an opinion of one can also be offset by an opinion of another. Not sure if there is such thing as a false opinion or not, but same rule would apply IMO / IMTO.

Documented changes in patterns, management styles, priorities, and pricing relative to inflation or historical trend could build a pretty compelling argument that can be accepted though...

The other side of the coin.

 

[rteetz]

I think it's because they wasted...oh, I mean invested 1.5- 2.5 billion in MDE.

I don't think it was wasted but it really wasn't necessary at the time. Disney was going to have to update their systems at some point and that would cost a lot of money anyways. They obviously took it a little farther. They connected everything under one system essentially. The magicband concept in my opinion is very good one thing for everything, room key, FP, park ticket, dining credits, etc. Now where people would start to get upset and say it was wasted was in FP+. The FP system was changed dramatically when it really didn't need to be. Then you also have the problem of Disney spending that money and their websites and apps still lagging, crashing and not working.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think it's because they wasted...oh, I mean invested 1.5- 2.5 billion in MDE.

Perhaps because that "investment" was built for two obvious reasons:

1.
Extract more money from each paying customer using the technology across all revenue streams
2.
Lower labor requirements/redundancy...reducing outlays

Those goals have nothing to do with new attractions/entertainment/additions...

In fact...they may diametrically opposed to addition...allowing for increased revenue and profit with less attendance lb for lb than before.

Think it's working? I don't...

Every "revenue has increased" stock pump press release completley ignores that pricing is being adjusted at an alarming percentage and frequency...-!: had been since about '05...across the board.

Wish there was a correlation to be made there...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't think it was wasted but it really wasn't necessary at the time. Disney was going to have to update their systems at some point and that would cost a lot of money anyways. They obviously took it a little farther. They connected everything under one system essentially. The magicband concept in my opinion is very good one thing for everything, room key, FP, park ticket, dining credits, etc. Now where people would start to get upset and say it was wasted was in FP+. The FP system was changed dramatically when it really didn't need to be. Then you also have the problem of Disney spending that money and their websites and apps still lagging, crashing and not working.

Nice job, Padawan...

And you bring up something that had been bugging me for two years...

I just don't know if
They were smart enough to plan it or just stumble on it with their typical good luck...

By hoopla ing the RFID system... They flipped the narrative. The stated design of the system was "enhanced experience"...by building it they divert all the attention to the system...what's lost is that the attractions to use the system was skipped...

The experience took a backseat to the window dressing...

Perhaps indefinitely...at a minimum for what? 5, 10 years?

The mind sees what it wants to see. I fear that putting the cart before the horse has caused the consumers to forget there is/needs to be a horse.

The mind sees what it wants to see.

 

[ChrisFL]

Nice job, Padawan...

And you bring up something that had been bugging me for two years...

I just don't know if
They were smart enough to plan it or just stumble on it with their typical good luck...

By hoopla ing the RFID system... They flipped the narrative. The stated design of the system was "enhanced experience"...by building it they divert all the attention to the system...what's lost is that the attractions to use the system was skipped...

The experience took a backseat to the window dressing...

Perhaps indefinitely...at a minimum for what? 5, 10 years?

The mind sees what it wants to see. I fear that putting the cart before the horse has caused the consumers to forget there is/needs to be a horse.

The mind sees what it wants to see.

The tourist mindset "I can never get on Soarin'/Midway Mania unless I go at rope drop and get a Fastpass"....solution FP+, now reserve it 60 days in advance.

The other thing I hate about FP+ is the fact that locals get the bad end of that deal.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The other thing I hate about FP+ is the fact that locals get the bad end of that deal.

I fear that it's just beginning for the old faithfuls

The sunshine state should wish for a recession...

The Chinese tanking their walmart/home depot dependent economy and blowing up their cities might just do the trick...

 

[BlackMagicWoman]

Nice job, Padawan...

And you bring up something that had been bugging me for two years...

I just don't know if
They were smart enough to plan it or just stumble on it with their typical good luck...

By hoopla ing the RFID system... They flipped the narrative. The stated design of the system was "enhanced experience"...by building it they divert all the attention to the system...what's lost is that the attractions to use the system was skipped...

The experience took a backseat to the window dressing...

Perhaps indefinitely...at a minimum for what? 5, 10 years?

The mind sees what it wants to see. I fear that putting the cart before the horse has caused the consumers to forget there is/needs to be a horse.

The mind sees what it wants to see.

Do not try to bend the spoon. That's impossible. Only try to realize the truth... There is no spoon.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Documented changes in patterns, management styles, priorities, and pricing relative to inflation or historical trend could build a pretty compelling argument that can be accepted though...

The other side of the coin.

My point is more the wording of True opinion, as if some folks counter with a False opinion. To me there is just someone's opinion.

 

[Disneychick75]

I'm relatively new to both reading and participating in discussions on Dis Boards. I've noticed a lot of people post responses to threads across Dis Boards (but especially on the Rumors and News threads) bemoaning the current state of Disney World. The attitude posters take sometimes seem even angry/hateful towards the "establishment." I find this interesting because it seems in order to read or especially post here, you have to be pretty invested in Disney. Probably most people are regular visitors. I understand that if you love Disney and are giving them a lot of your money, you may feel the desire or right to gripe about things once in a while, but it seems odd someone would be SO invested in Disney, they would come to hate it and then CONTINUE to post negative stuff about the company on message boards on the internet. It seems like if you reached the point where you think the company is terrible and your experiences aren't worth the money and so on and so forth, you would just stop giving Disney your money and find a new favorite place to visit and love.

I really enjoy reading the Rumors and News threads because I love Disney and am interested in the changes coming and think its fun to day dream about what could be.

So do people REALLY love to hate Disney? Or are message boards on the internet just a great place to spout off for people looking for an audience?

In my case, it's not so much I love to hate Disney but that I want to love Disney as much as I did in the past. Maybe the difference is I've been there since 1973 and visited WDW during what I call the Golden Years, aka the Eisner Years. Unless you visited the Disney Parks during this time, it's hard to explain the difference. The parks were immaculate, Disney didn't outsource housekeeping, the food was better. There were lines but the atmosphere was better. Like I posted, it's hard to explain, except maybe to say that Disney was a more magical place. Making money was a priority, of course, but the guests were made to feel like Disney CMs really were glad to see them.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

The other thing I hate about FP+ is the fact that locals get the bad end of that deal.

Don't be so sure. A lot of locals still get rooms, but a lot visit for short hours-esp with the resident AP. The ones I know are visiting much more because of FP+, and only wish US/IOA offered it as well.

@jtowntoflorida Its totally true, even though we have other park APs, we go to Disney FAR more often BECAUSE of FP+. And when we meet up with locals that DON'T go to Disney, we often hear "We don't go to Disney, stand in those horrible long lines and its so expensive" yada yada. Most of the times, they had no idea you could book three attractions 30 days before you go, or same day (subject to availability of course) and that no one else offers that for us, no one. So when we go to the other parks, we roll the dice as to what the lines will be. (Not going to buy quick cue as locals, its only good for the day unless you go super premium and we aren't.) We do still go (because who loves rides that doesn't love Manta?!) but not nearly as often as we go to a Disney park. Its definitely helping them, right now I have at least 7 days planned already for Disney, and a few 'maybes' for the others....

On Memorial Day Sat SWW, one of the Survey taker CMs said "Its a locals kind of day". Where we locals might have avoided peak times before, we embrace them now - with FP+. We aren't afraid of crowds, we go ride a few things and move on. It has definitely made APs pay off. I wouldn't dare walk into a single Disney park with at least 3 somethings booked. We've never done it yet and don't intend to. We book FP+ 100% of the time.

And how many times have we been to Universal in the last 5 years...0....10 yrs? Maybe once or twice... and definitely no APs there. If Disney continues to get the edge on locals vs Universal because of the FP+, that is going to be sizable indeed. (As we were told, and was certainly true at least for us, that about 900 people move to FL every day...)

Yea the only 2 families we know in Orlando also love FP+. That doesn't mean more or most locals hate it I guess. But the reasoning seemed to make sense. They have done the parks so many times that a commando day is long gone. They tend do after work visits, dinner and night show things. FP+ really improved those visits. The headliners were always an hour or more early evening-now they can FP+ those and have a very relaxed evening. Even having no wait for TT or Soarin is a nice improvement for EPCOT, esp since they can alternate which one on different visits. Having the Frozen FP+ will be nice for them as well. But MK and DHS are really nice schedules now with 3 good ones at each.

One family even does Throwback Thursdays at MK-where they schedule 3 classics, like POTC/HM/PPan for example-then the parade and Wishes. Of course I kid them that its throwback to when those were no wait for those-they laugh and say the rest is far worth it, and that they were often 15 to 30 minutes (Pan an hour) anyway instead of no wait. Other visits have been like Monday Mountains etc.

They have AP at US/IOA as well and would love to schedule some FOTL times there if they could.

Since they live there, they don't get EMH either, so FP+ has been nice.

They are back at WDW much more than in the past now because of FP+.

Their visits have greatly improved, and are getting much more value now. AP renewal is now guaranteed.

 

[Planogirl]

My point is more the wording of True opinion, as if some folks counter with a False opinion. To me there is just someone's opinion.

I wouldn't get stuck on that one phrase because it means nothing in this context. I deal with people who bend the truth for various reasons and noting "true" opinion was something I did without really thinking about it. It's true that no opinion is wrong particularly to the person stating it. However if we believed that every opinion was true then there wouldn't be much to talk about.

This is getting way too philosophical for me. Just substitute "honest" opinion which many say and no one seems to mind.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I wouldn't get stuck on that one phrase because it means nothing in this context. I deal with people who bend the truth for various reasons and noting "true" opinion was something I did without really thinking about it. It's true that no opinion is wrong particularly to the person stating it. However if we believed that every opinion was true then there wouldn't be much to talk about.

This is getting way too philosophical for me. Just substitute "honest" opinion which many say and no one seems to mind.

Or humble opinion.

 

[goofy4prez]

I agree completely with you. I am 25 now and have been using message boards (forums) since I was 14. People use forums to rant and complain more than praise.

However, this place does not compare one bit to an NFL forum. I have been on the Chargers.com forums since 2004 and I also explore other teams forums. Sports fans are extremely negative and a majority of posters only show up when there is something to complain about; not to mention their complaining is extremely exaggerated and unrealistic a lot of the times compared to actual facts. They disappear when things are going good.

Something else I notice about the internet forums is the prevalence of the internet has turned a lot of posters into, "I told you so!" type posters. So they throw a ton of stuff on the wall, then when they finally get something right you never hear the end of it.

Hey, I'm 51 years old and have been a Browns and Indians fan my whole life; If there is anyone who has something to complain about it certainly would be me.