LOST SEASON 3 **Official** Discussion/Speculation Thread (No Spoilers)

[MyGoofy26]

I agree... not much choice in LOST world.... poor Kate having to choose between Sawyer and Jack. I'd take them BOTH on if I were her.... Ha!
joking.

I think that's exactly what she's trying to do!

 

[southernbohemian]

Something I wanted to throw out here for discussion. Anyone else think the sub was just a prop?

A few episodes ago when Locke blew it up, Ben made a comment that having the sub there made the non-native Others feel like they could leave. They didn't feel trapped. Basically saying it was like a security blanket - they were happy to be there as long as they think they have a way home. His wording (like I posted above, I LOVE him as a character and love to analyze how he presents info) was more about how it makes people feel, not the actual function of the sub. And like I said, Ben doesn't lie, he's just very careful with his words. I find it interesting that he is very careful not to come out and say that the sub is how they get to/from the island, only that it makes people feel like they can go to/from the island.

So, they had to knock Juliet out to take the sub to the island? Because it's such a rough entry? What about everyone else there? Why didn't they have to be knocked out? I think there's another way to/from the island that they're not giving up. The sub is a prop - people think it's how they got there, people think it's how they can leave so they don't go searching for any more answers.

I think this is a brilliant idea. I was wondering why they would go through all of the trouble to make it seem like she was taking a plane if they were going to take a sub. I'm assuming the "real" way off the island isn't an airplane because at least one of the two airplanes that crashed on the island should have seen an airstrip if there is one, and they said they were receiving "drops" which implies that airplanes don't land on the island. My other logical guess would be a ship, but then why have a sub? You could just say they would take the ship. Must be something a little more out there, don't you think?

 

[MyGoofy26]

I think this is a brilliant idea. I was wondering why they would go through all of the trouble to make it seem like she was taking a plane if they were going to take a sub. I'm assuming the "real" way off the island isn't an airplane because at least one of the two airplanes that crashed on the island should have seen an airstrip if there is one, and they said they were receiving "drops" which implies that airplanes don't land on the island. My other logical guess would be a ship, but then why have a sub? You could just say they would take the ship. Must be something a little more out there, don't you think?

If Michael and Walt could leave on that little boat, then the sub can't be the only way. Granted Ben said once they got out, they wouldn't be able to get back in so there must be a very specific window (for lack of a better word) to get into the island.

Maybe they drop them with the food, LOL! Hey, maybe the REAL Henry Gale was parachuting in for his new job with Dharma

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

If Michael and Walt could leave on that little boat, then the sub can't be the only way. Granted Ben said once they got out, they wouldn't be able to get back in so there must be a very specific window (for lack of a better word) to get into the island.

Maybe they drop them with the food, LOL! Hey, maybe the REAL Henry Gale was parachuting in for his new job with Dharma

Unless Michael and Walt didn't REALLY leave....

 

[RadioNate]

Also, Ben gave Michael and Walt specific coordinates to follow. He said if they went to them, they would be met (no clue by who) and released.

It seems to me that there are several steps to getting to/from the island.

 

[brerrabbit]

Speculation has run rampent about the island and where it is, what it is and how you get there or for that matter how you get off. I think they can't get off the island with the sub. The reason I believe this is if you think back to the episode where Jin, Sun, and Sayeed sail Desmonds boat around the island to go after Kate, Sawyer, Jack, and Hurley towards the end of season two when Ben is told that the "Others" have a sail boat you can see a look of suprise on his face and he tells someone, "I want that boat". I remember thinking at that time that the Others were stranded on the island the same as the Losties. As far as supplies, they continue to count on the Dharma drops for that. I envision the whole Dharma resupply scheme is similar to the situation in the movie The Village. A lot of money was spent to isolate the Village and they were even able to get it declared a no fly zone because they had enough money to set up a trust that would guarentee it would exsist forever.

 

[MyGoofy26]

Unless Michael and Walt didn't REALLY leave....

Damon and Carlton have said to assume that they made it out.

 

[bigmerle1966]

But how would that get her off of the island...especially if the problem happens at conception?

Then I got nothin'

Must be something a little more out there, don't you think?

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[glass- slippers]

The old comm major in my LOVES Ben as a character. He doesn't lie. Not outright. He leaves out information. He misleads. He presents information in a way that allows it to be interpreted in another way, all the while never actually lying. He manipulates the way he speaks to implant specific meaning in someone's head that contradicts the real truth without ever actually telling a lie. He's absolutely fascinating. And I think this is why Ben takes it so seriously when called a liar. He isn't. He's a manipulator, but not an outright liar.

Ok, I'm confused. Are you saying Ben never lies to his own people or to anyone? Because he sure has lied alot to the "losties".Maybe he doesn't think they deserve to be told the "truth", whatever that is? I guess it's all in the way you interpret it, but IMO, manipulation and intentionally misleading is lying. It certainly isn't being very honest or trustworthy.

 

[beattyfamily]

Ok, I'm confused. Are you saying Ben never lies to his own people or to anyone? Because he sure has lied alot to the "losties".Maybe he doesn't think they deserve to be told the "truth", whatever that is? I guess it's all in the way you interpret it, but IMO, manipulation and intentionally misleading is lying. It certainly isn't being very honest or trustworthy.

And didn't he lie when they captured him and he was 'pretending' to be Henry??

 

[glass- slippers]

And didn't he lie when they captured him and he was 'pretending' to be Henry??

I think he lies to everyone :"Others" and "losties". I think he lied to get them all to the island and he continues to lie so they'll stay on the island. You can't believe anything he says . Isn't he also lying by allowing everyone to think Alex is his daughter?

 

[Amy]

Face it, they're ALL liars! The Others, the Losties, even Danielle.

 

[MyGoofy26]

Ok, I'm confused. Are you saying Ben never lies to his own people or to anyone? Because he sure has lied alot to the "losties".Maybe he doesn't think they deserve to be told the "truth", whatever that is? I guess it's all in the way you interpret it, but IMO, manipulation and intentionally misleading is lying. It certainly isn't being very honest or trustworthy.

Being manipulative and misleading may not be honest, but he doesn't flat out lie. When he states something directly, he's always telling the truth. When he's a little more indirect, you know there is more to the story. But he doesn't lie. Not technically. Being a liar and being dishonest/evasive can be completely different things.

Here's an example. When he was captured and "outed" as an Other, he insisted he wasn't the leader, that his leader was a great man, an unforgiving man but a great man. We now know about "Jacob" - whoever he is. So while the details Ben gave make it sound like he was just some ordinary peon, we now know that he's certainly upper level as far as their hierarchy goes. But did he lie? No. He was completely and totally truthful in the details he DID give.

I guess it's just something that needs to be looked at factually rather than ethically/morally.

 

[MyGoofy26]

And didn't he lie when they captured him and he was 'pretending' to be Henry??

Ok, so it's not 100%. It does seem that for survival's sake, he'll lie. He made up the story about how he got to the island and who he was. Can you imagine if he'd have admitted when Rousseau brought Sayid to him who he was? In hopes of escaping, anyone would lie.

But everything Ben has said and done as a leader, he hasn't flat out lied.

 

[glass- slippers]

Face it, they're ALL liars! The Others, the Losties, even Danielle.

Yes. I absolutely agree.

 

[glass- slippers]

Being manipulative and misleading may not be honest, but he doesn't flat out lie. When he states something directly, he's always telling the truth. When he's a little more indirect, you know there is more to the story. But he doesn't lie. Not technically. Being a liar and being dishonest/evasive can be completely different things.

Here's an example. When he was captured and "outed" as an Other, he insisted he wasn't the leader, that his leader was a great man, an unforgiving man but a great man. We now know about "Jacob" - whoever he is. So while the details Ben gave make it sound like he was just some ordinary peon, we now know that he's certainly upper level as far as their hierarchy goes. But did he lie? No. He was completely and totally truthful in the details he DID give.

I guess it's just something that needs to be looked at factually rather than ethically/morally.

This is Fact Definition of Lie: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive.something intended to convey a false impression. Seems to me that fits our boy Ben.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

Damon and Carlton have said to assume that they made it out.

Who the heck are Damon and CArlton???

 

[Kycha]

Who the heck are Damon and CArlton???

Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse...they are the creator, executive producers and writers for the show. They do the "Official Lost Podcast". Alot of the information they provide during the podcast, gives a better understanding of the show. They answer a lot of fan questions about the mythology of the show.

 

[MyGoofy26]

This is Fact Definition of Lie: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive.something intended to convey a false impression. Seems to me that fits our boy Ben.

I'm not going to argue semantics. My point was that Ben tends to skirt the truth, leave out important information and mislead. He doesn't typically come out and tell a bold-faced lie. The definition of a lie is a non-issue in my argument. If it makes you happier to call it a lie, then by all means, go right ahead. I prefer to get a little more detailed about his communication style because it's so unique and to just say "he lies" isn't giving him enough credit. His method of communication is much more "creative" than just telling a lie and is VERY important to how to you read him and the show.

 

[glass- slippers]

I'm not going to argue semantics. My point was that Ben tends to skirt the truth, leave out important information and mislead. He doesn't typically come out and tell a bold-faced lie. The definition of a lie is a non-issue in my argument. If it makes you happier to call it a lie, then by all means, go right ahead. I prefer to get a little more detailed about his communication style because it's so unique and to just say "he lies" isn't giving him enough credit. His method of communication is much more "creative" than just telling a lie and is VERY important to how to you read him and the show.

I'm not arguing semantics, a definition is a definition. If you choose to ignore it and change it to suit your theory, go ahead, doesn't mean it's 100% accurate. Your argument was that he never lies, and that isn't correct. Sure I'll give you that he is a "creative liar", but, the fact is, he is still a liar. His communication style is one of a compulsive liar,not unique or credit-worthy-IMO. Maybe he tries to justify that he isn't a liar to himself by his choice of wordplay and twisting of facts, that he isn't really lying. This show is so complicated with so many plots, twists and hidden meanings that I don't think there is a right or wrong way to interpret it, right now it's more of a guessing game. Everyone has their theories, and that's part of the fun involved with the show. I'm just stating my opinion, I'm not trying to start a major debate. Enjoy the show, enjoy the characters. I think Ben is an interesting character though he gives me the creeps. I also can't stand Jack, though that's probably a whole different topic!