Looking into buying DVC. Need help!!

[chalee94]

But IMO the point price direct over resale with VGC is not enough difference to not buy direct. Being in cali and not really near WDW buying GCF makes sense. It also makes sense that if in a jam you could use those points to stay in DL.

i'd partly agree.

if you are determined to buy into DVC, buying VGC direct and booking at 11 months out is the best option...with a direct purchase giving you more options in CA if needed on short notice.

but frankly, i'd also stop to think about whether a timeshare is a good option at all in your situation.

 

[Woody and Buzz]

I would like to buy 200 points either used or direct. I am looking to go to DL every other year. Also when we want to go to WDW I could bank points and barrow points. For that trip I would plan on 600 points for the trip.

So buying direct would give me the option in using all other Disney resorts and hotels. Has anyone used there points to go to other hotels in other places? I don't know if buying direct and using points that is a good way too.

If I buy used for the GC that would limit me too just the 11 resorts. I would save around $4000-$6000 dollars but I would put myself in a corner.

In the end ultimately want to buy a DVC because I think I pay the same amount of $$ every trip to DL. I would like to save $15-20,000 to put down for a DVC. Also I could give the DVC to my 2 kids down the road.

 

[dmunsil]

I don't think the ability to use points for other Disney hotels at DL is worth enough to make buying direct worth it. The whole point of DVC is to save money on accommodations, and every time you use your points for an exchange to a non-DVC hotel, Disney cruise, or Adventures by Disney trip, you're no longer saving much, if any, money. You might be losing money, depending on the specific situation.

If you compare the points value of DL rooms at any of the three hotels, they're essentially valuing the rooms at $9-10 a point, if you compare to rack rate. If you can get any discount at all, even AAA at 10%, it's now more like $8-9$ a point. If you can get a 20-30% discount, which is available during quite a good chunk of the year, you're now looking at $6-7 per point. That's lower than your dues plus your amortized buy-in. In other words, you're losing money using DVC for that room.

If you plan to use the DVC points for DVC rooms, and just want the option to use the points directly just in case, you're basically saying that the option to book a DL hotel room is insurance in case your regular (DVC) plans fall through. That's expensive insurance.

Given that the waiting list for VGC points is reportedly very long, I think resale is your best bet right now, assuming DVC is right for you at all. Moreover, if you're not sure if DVC is going to be right, if you buy resale you will lose a lot less money if you have to turn around and sell it because it wasn't working for you, since your sale price will be similar to your purchase price and you'll mostly be losing the selling costs (broker commission and fees).

 

[Minniesgal]

We own at both AKV and VGC. The reason for this is we fly from the UK and we want to fly out to the East coast and home from the West coast. This somehow makes the flights cheaper and also gives us two holidays in one. We only travel once every three years and do 1 long holiday rather than lots of short.

To me the point,I'd owning at VGC is only the 11 month advantage. If I couldn't have booked at 11 months I would have bought cheaper AKV points and taken my chances at 7 months. If you don't use your home resort advantage thnk carefully about why you are buying there and if you do use it you shouldn't need to worry about using the Disney collection.

 

[BestDadEver]

I would like to buy 200 points either used or direct. I am looking to go to DL every other year. Also when we want to go to WDW I could bank points and barrow points. For that trip I would plan on 600 points for the trip.

So buying direct would give me the option in using all other Disney resorts and hotels. Has anyone used there points to go to other hotels in other places? I don't know if buying direct and using points that is a good way too.

If I buy used for the GC that would limit me too just the 11 resorts. I would save around $4000-$6000 dollars but I would put myself in a corner.

In the end ultimately want to buy a DVC because I think I pay the same amount of $$ every trip to DL. I would like to save $15-20,000 to put down for a DVC. Also I could give the DVC to my 2 kids down the road.

I guess the question is , is that a lot of money to you .

To me $4-6k in comparison to the purchase price is not enough to take the risk on what restrictions may or may not take place down the road to resale buyers . If your were looking at others resorts the numbers saved would be much higher and IMO worth the risk if you find no value in the options you won't have .

I jus gloom at it this way if Disney decides to restrict anyone's perks ect . It will most likely be resale buyers . At least till they stop selling new resorts . I doubt they can demand such high prices for new resorts without having separate extra perks that make it worthwhile .

 

[dmunsil]

To me $4-6k in comparison to the purchase price is not enough to take the risk on what restrictions may or may not take place down the road to resale buyers .

Two things:

- It's not 4-6K. It's 10-12K for 200 points. A high price for VGC right now is $115, which is $50 off direct price, which is $10,000 off a 200-point block. At $105, which is still higher than any contract that we know has been taken in ROFR, that's $60 off, or $12,000. You can buy a lot of nights at the Disneyland Hotel with $10-12K.

- In the past, when Disney added restrictions to resale buyers, they grandfathered everyone in who had already bought resale. There's no guarantee that this would happen again, but I don't see why anyone would think they wouldn't do so.

 

[BestDadEver]

If I buy used for the GC that would limit me too just the 11 resorts. I would save around $4000-$6000 dollars but I would put myself in a corner.

Two things:

- It's not 4-6K. It's 10-12K for 200 points. A high price for VGC right now is $115, which is $50 off direct price, which is $10,000 off a 200-point block. At $105, which is still higher than any contract that we know has been taken in ROFR, that's $60 off, or $12,000. You can buy a lot of nights at the Disneyland Hotel with $10-12K.

- In the past, when Disney added restrictions to resale buyers, they grandfathered everyone in who had already bought resale. There's no guarantee that this would happen again, but I don't see why anyone would think they wouldn't do so.

This is what I was referring to . They were his numbers I didn't calculate them . I have no interest in calculating his numbers but he said this would be the difference in price due to his calculations . That's what I responded to and my numbers were correct for the situation. So thanks for correcting me with wrong information . Dmunsil you have been a member for 5 days .

 

[dmunsil]

They were his numbers I didn't calculate them .

I realized that. Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that they were your numbers, it was just a convenient quote that talked about the difference in price. And it's you I'm disagreeing with on the larger question of the value of avoiding the supposed restrictions that might come up.

Frankly even if it was "only" $4-6K, that's a lot of money to pay for potential restrictions that might or might not happen down the road.

I think when you're talking about buying into resorts that are not sold out, there's a huge win buying direct, which is that you get your points now. The waiting for the right contract, waiting for ROFR, closing, etc. is a major pain. I don't know if it's thousands of dollars of pain, but it's really annoying.

But for sold out resorts, especially ones with a huge waiting list like VGC, there's essentially no value in buying direct. The ancillary "benefits" are financially worthless; they're a convenience that you're paying significant sums of money for, both up front and every time you use them.

 

[BestDadEver]

I realized that. Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that they were your numbers, it was just a convenient quote that talked about the difference in price. And it's you I'm disagreeing with on the larger question of the value of avoiding the supposed restrictions that might come up.

Frankly even if it was "only" $4-6K, that's a lot of money to pay for potential restrictions that might or might not happen down the road.

I think when you're talking about buying into resorts that are not sold out, there's a huge win buying direct, which is that you get your points now. The waiting for the right contract, waiting for ROFR, closing, etc. is a major pain. I don't know if it's thousands of dollars of pain, but it's really annoying.

But for sold out resorts, especially ones with a huge waiting list like VGC, there's essentially no value in buying direct. The ancillary "benefits" are financially worthless; they're a convenience that you're paying significant sums of money for, both up front and every time you use them.

If they do restrict resale down the line I'd be kicking myself for not bucking up the IMO few extra bucks to have full benefits . What if they decide to make it that you can only stay at your home resort if you bought resale .

I understand its a lot of money but not when your spending $20k

 

[dmunsil]

What if they decide to make it that you can only stay at your home resort if you bought resale .

They can't do that. It's in the declaration of condominium for all the resorts that every member participates in the DVC system, and every owner of a portion of the condominium is a member of the DVC system. Moreover if they did do that, it would just make life worse for the other DVC members who bought direct, because they'd have a harder time staying in other resorts.

The things they can remove, either for everyone or just some people, include:

- Shopping & dining discounts.
- Annual pass discounts.
- Tables in Wonderland discount.
- RCI exchanges

And I'm not actually sure they'd want to restrict RCI exchanges; I think they make money on them.

Basically they can't take away your ability to book DVC resorts. That's what you're paying for, that's where the value is. The other stuff is miscellaneous conveniences and minor discounts. The exchanges for cruises and so forth are actually financially a loss over just paying cash.

Also, keep in mind that any time DVC reduces the benefits for resale customers, they reduce the resale value of everyone's memberships. If you ever think you might want to sell your membership, you should be upset that Disney has this two-tier thing going on. It could cost you money down the road. If they add more restrictions, that's dollars Disney is taking out of your pocket if you ever need or want to sell.

 

[iluvthsgam]

This is what I was referring to . They were his numbers I didn't calculate them . I have no interest in calculating his numbers but he said this would be the difference in price due to his calculations . That's what I responded to and my numbers were correct for the situation. So thanks for correcting me with wrong information . Dmunsil you have been a member for 5 days .

Don't think you need to be a jerk about it.

 

[ELMC]

I would like to buy 200 points either used or direct. I am looking to go to DL every other year. Also when we want to go to WDW I could bank points and barrow points. For that trip I would plan on 600 points for the trip.

So buying direct would give me the option in using all other Disney resorts and hotels. Has anyone used there points to go to other hotels in other places? I don't know if buying direct and using points that is a good way too.

If I buy used for the GC that would limit me too just the 11 resorts. I would save around $4000-$6000 dollars but I would put myself in a corner.

In the end ultimately want to buy a DVC because I think I pay the same amount of $$ every trip to DL. I would like to save $15-20,000 to put down for a DVC. Also I could give the DVC to my 2 kids down the road.

With all due respect, I think you need to either change your thinking about DVC or consider not purchasing DVC. The value of any timeshare system is the ability to use one's ownership within the system. In the case of DVC that means 7 WDW resorts, 1 DL resort and 3 beach properties. If these options do not appeal to you, then you probably should not be buying DVC.

A few other quick points:

• The distinction is resale and direct, not "used" and direct. I know it's a subtle difference, but it is a difference.
• You already do have the option to stay at any WDW or DL resort. All you need to do is call CRO and make a reservation. The thought that you need to buy a timeshare to have these options is a bit misguided. By using DVC direct for these options you are not saving any money, you are just paying differently and at different times, and probably more than you would by booking direct and paying cash.
• While a noble thought, I do not think that people should buy a timeshare with the idea of giving it to their children. I thought this way when I bought my Marriott timeshare 10 years ago. Seeing how the maintenance fees have increased, I would not want to burden my children with this expense when I eventually die. I am glad my DVC contracts have an expiration date.

I guess the question is , is that a lot of money to you .

To me $4-6k in comparison to the purchase price is not enough to take the risk on what restrictions may or may not take place down the road to resale buyers . If your were looking at others resorts the numbers saved would be much higher and IMO worth the risk if you find no value in the options you won't have .

I jus gloom at it this way if Disney decides to restrict anyone's perks ect . It will most likely be resale buyers . At least till they stop selling new resorts . I doubt they can demand such high prices for new resorts without having separate extra perks that make it worthwhile .

While I respect that this is the way you feel, I really think you should investigate the legalities of restrictions a little more. Many of the possible changes you suggest are at best incredibly difficult to implement and at worst a violation of the contract. I'm not going to suggest that you should feel differently, but you should know that what you are saying is sheer speculation and in some ways is in conflict with the rights that DVD has regarding the ability to implement restrictions. Take a moment to read Dean's analysis of potential restrictions for a more likely scenario.

If they do restrict resale down the line I'd be kicking myself for not bucking up the IMO few extra bucks to have full benefits . What if they decide to make it that you can only stay at your home resort if you bought resale .

I understand its a lot of money but not when your spending $20k

Just so I'm understanding you, saving $4,000-$6,000 is not a substantial savings on a $20,000 purchase? I think we'll have to disagree on that one. Also, for the benefit of the readers, I think it is important that you disclose that you chose to finance your purchase. I'm not making any judgments or speaking negatively about those who choose to finance a DVC purchase. But I do think it adds perspective to the conversation. I suspect that you would change your tune about saving $4,000 not being a big deal if you had to write the check up front.

 

[BestDadEver]

They can't do that. It's in the declaration of condominium for all the resorts that every member participates in the DVC system, and every owner of a portion of the condominium is a member of the DVC system. Moreover if they did do that, it would just make life worse for the other DVC members who bought direct, because they'd have a harder time staying in other resorts.

The things they can remove, either for everyone or just some people, include:

- Shopping & dining discounts.
- Annual pass discounts.
- Tables in Wonderland discount.
- RCI exchanges

And I'm not actually sure they'd want to restrict RCI exchanges; I think they make money on them.

Basically they can't take away your ability to book DVC resorts. That's what you're paying for, that's where the value is. The other stuff is miscellaneous conveniences and minor discounts. The exchanges for cruises and so forth are actually financially a loss over just paying cash.

Also, keep in mind that any time DVC reduces the benefits for resale customers, they reduce the resale value of everyone's memberships. If you ever think you might want to sell your membership, you should be upset that Disney has this two-tier thing going on. It could cost you money down the road. If they add more restrictions, that's dollars Disney is taking out of your pocket if you ever need or want to sell.

This makes no sense day in day out around here you see people say you are only guaranteed you home resort . They could easily make the booking window smaller for resale .You don't know what they are going to do .

I really don't care cause because I don't intend to sell till after my break even point so at that point anything is good to me . If I even sell it . I know where this is going , I don't really want to hear about how if I loose my job ect . That i will be in over my head . The stupid DVC contract would be the last of my worries if I lost my job . I wouldn't buy anything if I was worried about loosing my job .

 

[BestDadEver]

With all due respect, I think you need to either change your thinking about DVC or consider not purchasing DVC. The value of any timeshare system is the ability to use one's ownership within the system. In the case of DVC that means 7 WDW resorts, 1 DL resort and 3 beach properties. If these options do not appeal to you, then you probably should not be buying DVC.

A few other quick points:

• The distinction is resale and direct, not "used" and direct. I know it's a subtle difference, but it is a difference.
• You already do have the option to stay at any WDW or DL resort. All you need to do is call CRO and make a reservation. The thought that you need to buy a timeshare to have these options is a bit misguided. By using DVC direct for these options you are not saving any money, you are just paying differently and at different times, and probably more than you would by booking direct and paying cash.
• While a noble thought, I do not think that people should buy a timeshare with the idea of giving it to their children. I thought this way when I bought my Marriott timeshare 10 years ago. Seeing how the maintenance fees have increased, I would not want to burden my children with this expense when I eventually die. I am glad my DVC contracts have an expiration date.

While I respect that this is the way you feel, I really think you should investigate the legalities of restrictions a little more. Many of the possible changes you suggest are at best incredibly difficult to implement and at worst a violation of the contract. I'm not going to suggest that you should feel differently, but you should know that what you are saying is sheer speculation and in some ways is in conflict with the rights that DVD has regarding the ability to implement restrictions. Take a moment to read Dean's analysis of potential restrictions for a more likely scenario.



Just so I'm understanding you, saving $4,000-$6,000 is not a substantial savings on a $20,000 purchase? I think we'll have to disagree on that one. Also, for the benefit of the readers, I think it is important that you disclose that you chose to finance your purchase. I'm not making any judgments or speaking negatively about those who choose to finance a DVC purchase. But I do think it adds perspective to the conversation. I suspect that you would change your tune about saving $4,000 not being a big deal if you had to write the check up front.

I specifically stated it was my opinion it wasn't a lot of money . And specifically asked the OP to ask himself that question . If he think is its a lot then thats his decision .

 

[ELMC]

This makes no sense day in day out around here you see people say you are only guaranteed you home resort . They could easily make the booking window smaller for resale .You don't know what they are going to do .

To be fair, that's not what you said. You said that they could make you stay at only your home resort. They are two different things. You are correct in saying that contractually they can alter the booking windows for resale owners. But as it stands now, the best interpretations of the contract I have read infer that they cannot remove access to the other resorts in the system for one group of owners and not another.

 

[BestDadEver]

To be fair, that's not what you said. You said that they could make you stay at only your home resort. They are two different things. You are correct in saying that contractually they can alter the booking windows for resale owners. But as it stands now, the best interpretations of the contract I have read infer that they cannot remove access to the other resorts in the system for one group of owners and not another.

Its all what if's . I didn't say they were going to do anything . What if they say all resale purchases will not be able to access new resorts in the DVC system .

 

[ELMC]

What happens when down the road disney decides to restrict resale buyer again . Things I think could happen , maybe they will lower the 11/7 book window for resales , maybe they will only allow you to to stay at your home resort .

Its all what if's . I didn't say they were going to do anything . What if they say all resale purchases will not be able to access new resorts in the DVC system .

Your argument would hold water if your "what ifs" were possible. But it has been opined on here many times that the restrictions you are suggesting are in violation of the POS and are near impossible for DVD to implement. Posing it as a question rather than a statement doesn't make it any less incorrect. Your fears about restrictions are in line with "what if aliens come down from outer space and blow up Disney World?" I guess it would ruin the value of my resale contract, but the chances of it happening are so infinitesimally small that it's not a valid argument.

 

[dmunsil]

This makes no sense day in day out around here you see people say you are only guaranteed you home resort . They could easily make the booking window smaller for resale .

People say that, and my opinion is that they are wrong. You are not just guaranteed your home resort, you are guaranteed to participate in the entire DVC system. And I don't actually think they could make the booking window smaller for resale owners.

Disney has great lawyers, though; possibly they could find a way. But do I think they will? No. And if they did, it would be a public relations disaster. There would be lawsuits. It would be epic. ROFR would not be enough to stem the tide of resales being offered at bargain-basement prices.

I actually do think Disney has some limitations on what they can do, not just legally, but because they actually have a brand to protect. They have to carefully calibrate the restrictions so they don't anger a large chunk of their customers. That's why the restrictions so far have been options that aren't really a good deal. They're pure convenience, but they help the sales staff offer a reason to buy direct. That's perfect from Disney's POV. Enough difference to keep sales up, but not enough difference to anger the customers.

 

[iluvthsgam]

I was looking the other day but could not find, are all the agreements online somewhere? Membership Agreement? I would assume some like the ground lease and/or operating agreement and/or others would be on the OCC website. Does anyone know? Maybe i'll have a lawyer take a look at it (me)

 

[dmunsil]

I was looking the other day but could not find, are all the agreements online somewhere? Membership Agreement? I would assume some like the ground lease and/or operating agreement and/or others would be on the OCC website. Does anyone know? Maybe i'll have a lawyer take a look at it (me)

Yes, they're all on the OCC website, or PM or email and I can send over most of them.

Search on "Condo Related" and DISNEY as the grantor, and I think you'll get them. The first filing for each resort is usually the main Declaration of Condominium and the rest of the DVC membership stuff. If you put one of the following in the Legal Description field you can usually narrow it down to one resort:

"CLUB AT WALT" (for OKW)
BOARDWALK
"BEACH CLUB"
WILDERNESS
ANIMAL
SARATOGA
"BAY LAKE TOWER"
"GRAND FLORIDIAN"

Sometimes Beach club comes up as "BCH CLUB" in the older documents. Anyway, it's not super hard.

Also, a lot of the Disney deeds reference the book and page numbers of the key documents in their legal description. So just look up a Beach Club deed from Disney, read the legal description, and search for the book and page numbers they cite.