LOL, no Avatar land after all?

[Masonmj84]

What I would have liked to have seen them do with AK (probably too late for this now) is have a different land for each continent.

They already have Africa and Asia. Why not have a North America, South America, Europe, and Austrailia? (heck, they could even have an Antartica with some sort of penguin attraction and/or some sort of cool ice cave ride).

They could put at least one of thse where the abomniation otherwise known as Dinoland currently exists. They could put another where they're planning to put Avitar.

 

[Micca]

What I would have liked to have seen them do with AK (probably too late for this now) is have a different land for each continent.

They already have Africa and Asia. Why not have a North America, South America, Europe, and Austrailia? (heck, they could even have an Antartica with some sort of penguin attraction and/or some sort of cool ice cave ride).

They could put at least one of thse where the abomniation otherwise known as Dinoland currently exists. They could put another where they're planning to put Avitar.

This is one of the best ideas I've ever seen for AK. An ice cave ride would be excellent! This would give them the rationale to build a Matterhorn at WDW.

Also agree about Dinoland. They should have just put the Indiana Jones attraction from DLR in the space of the dino ride.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They don't want a zoo....

every zoo ever created has areas themed to continents....as they did with the first segments of animal kingdom as well.

I'll say this for them...they have (at least publically) stuck to their guns about attempting to separate animal kingdom from a zoo or a zoo with rollercoasters (busch gardens tampa)...

i'd be fine with busch gardens...as its better than what animal kingdom offers...but disney isn't going there.

There are two advantages to them outright rejecting the continent idea for expansion:
1. they can claim that its not the design/ direction they want....which works for them because they can also save bucks by not expanding/ taking on more animal care costs
2. Zoos don't push merchandise...and all disney parks are now handled to push merchandise...that's why they are there. merchandise is almost pure profit - its where their butter is breaded at WDW
(its not coincidence that approximatly ALL of their addtions over the last 8 years has been either pixar based or princess/pirate based...its to get you into the show dump giftshop...even avatar has that in mind - but avatar is just pretty forgetable all in all)

 

[tjkraz]

Assuming the Avatar project goes forward, its purpose is to expand Disney's appeal into new areas. Reality is if Disney created a new land at DAK with either a generic theme or some other Disney character property, they would be attracting the same audience they already have. The park may see some modest attendance bump, but realistically there won't be anyone saying: "wow, Disney just added Australia to the Animal Kingdom park...we've never been to Walt Disney World before but NOW I'm convinced we need to go!"

The Avatar tie-in has the potential to expand the parks' appeal.

Look at Universal and Harry Potter. Universal could have simply built castle theming, a magic wand gift shop, a restaurant and the Forbidden Journey attraction without any Harry Potter licensing. But that would not have yielded the 50% attendance bump that the HP name brought. Heck, two of the three Harry Potter attractions have already been in Islands of Adventure for YEARS without the HP tie-in.

That's what Disney is hoping to replicate with Avatar.

And as long as the attractions are enjoyable, even non-Avatar fans will find something to like, too. You don't have to be an Aerosmith fan to enjoy Rock N Rollercoaster or a Twilight Zone fan to appreciate Tower of Terror.

 

[umichigan10]

I wouldn't mind an Avatar ride maybe, but a whole land just doesn't fit. It's not disney to me. It's universal.

Fair enough. I'm not sure exactly where I stand on this whole thing anyways. On one hand, AK is getting a potential shot in the arm its needed. On the other hand they couldn't have added a star wars land to DHS instead?

 

[tjkraz]

Fair enough. I'm not sure exactly where I stand on this whole thing anyways. On one hand, AK is getting a potential shot in the arm its needed. On the other hand they couldn't have added a star wars land to DHS instead?

Given that George Lucas still owns Star Wars I would have to say no, they couldn't add a Star Wars land instead. The stories about Lucas taking forever to approve the Star Tours upgrade are pretty legendary.

A Star Wars land seems like such a no-brainer that the reasonable assumption is that Lucas either won't approve it at all or his financial terms are unworkable.

 

[GenevieveRaqs]

2. Zoos don't push merchandise...and all disney parks are now handled to push merchandise...that's why they are there. merchandise is almost pure profit - its where their butter is breaded at WDW

Dude, have you been to a zoo lately? Particularly with kids in tow? Because every zoo I've ever been to is definitely pushing merchandise and dumping you into a gift shop at the end! From $25 stuffed animals to $15 souvenir cups, they're no different from WDW in the merchandise department...just, perhaps, smaller in scale.

 

[skier_pete]

I still don't get the fan community. Complain constantly that they don't expand the parks - and then 75 % of the comments when they do come out and say 'big expansion' is "Ooohhh...Avatar, I don't like THAT idea!" even when there is ZERO information on what the expansion actually is. I never understood the huge popularity nor the huge backlash against Avatar - it was decently entertaining movie with some wonderful concepts and some mundane storytelling. However, I don't know why they CAN'T make an entertaining ride/them park out of the concept...they've done much better with much less. (Splash Mountain >>> greater than Song of the South, for instance. Or even the Toy Story movies, while in concept don't lend themselves to theme park rides - have spawned not one but two great (albeit similar) rides.)

Let's use the example of Carsland. Not one person would list "Cars" as their favorite Pixar movie, yet the right design elements they made by all accounts (possibly lets Luigi's Flying Tires) and pretty fantastic theme park experience.

So, I guess I'm just saying I can respect an opinion of "Avatar, hmmmm, not sure I'll wait and see" much more than "Avatar, what are they stupid up there!" and if that's your attitude I really feel sort of sorry for you.

And as far as those thinking that Pandora is shut down, I will simply tell you that you are going to be disappointed, but I also think you will be disappointed no matter what.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Dude, have you been to a zoo lately? Particularly with kids in tow? Because every zoo I've ever been to is definitely pushing merchandise and dumping you into a gift shop at the end! From $25 stuffed animals to $15 souvenir cups, they're no different from WDW in the merchandise department...just, perhaps, smaller in scale.

I'm at aquariums/ zoos all the time....

And one or two giftshops at the front of the park are nowhere near the level that disney has cranked out.

Of course they sell lions, tigers, and bears....but what they don't do is move heavy volume as you see at WDW. Zoos and aquariums are still relatively cheap for entry...and there are often programs to expand access by the selling/ distribution of discounted tickets...
But most zoos and many aquariums are still public trusts/ municipal facilities where profits arent the goal...so while they'll sell you plenty of stuff...it is a nice benefit to them...not a necessity.

Enter WDW...where it costs you $100 to get in...and they are looking for about the same expenditures by the customer in additional out of pockets expenses...food and beverage...but the goal is merchandise.

Why do they build parks in china?

to tap an "unexplored market"?
perhaps...plenty of people to pay...if few could ever afford it.

But they get lots of favorable trade with these new parks....and the goal there is merchandise on the cheap to walmart, amazon, target, the disney store, disneyland, tokyo disneyland, disneyland paris, and yes...Walt disney world.

i see your point...and i didn't make my case as i would have liked...but animal kingdom embracing a more traditional zoo approach is never going to happen.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I still don't get the fan community. Complain constantly that they don't expand the parks - and then 75 % of the comments when they do come out and say 'big expansion' is "Ooohhh...Avatar, I don't like THAT idea!" even when there is ZERO information on what the expansion actually is. I never understood the huge popularity nor the huge backlash against Avatar - it was decently entertaining movie with some wonderful concepts and some mundane storytelling. However, I don't know why they CAN'T make an entertaining ride/them park out of the concept...they've done much better with much less. (Splash Mountain >>> greater than Song of the South, for instance. Or even the Toy Story movies, while in concept don't lend themselves to theme park rides - have spawned not one but two great (albeit similar) rides.)

Let's use the example of Carsland. Not one person would list "Cars" as their favorite Pixar movie, yet the right design elements they made by all accounts (possibly lets Luigi's Flying Tires) and pretty fantastic theme park experience.

So, I guess I'm just saying I can respect an opinion of "Avatar, hmmmm, not sure I'll wait and see" much more than "Avatar, what are they stupid up there!" and if that's your attitude I really feel sort of sorry for you.

And as far as those thinking that Pandora is shut down, I will simply tell you that you are going to be disappointed, but I also think you will be disappointed no matter what.

Pete,

I don't think this is the standard "complain to complain" phenomena going on here...though that usually IS the issue...

Its that its Avatar....which is way more underwhelming to the general masses than alot of our recent scifi/ fantasy franchises...

That movie was visually great but ridiculously weak when it came to characters and stories....

i'm a star wars age guy, i read marvel and dc, love the tolkien movies, the non bill shatner star trek, transformers (childhood tie), big pirates fan...love the technology of effects....and although the star wars movies of late ruined lucas's credibility as a "visionary" - still realize that we would see nothing cool without his original 3 movies...
but Avatar...was cool for exactly the 2 1/2 hours when i sat with 3-D glasses watching it...it just left you with nothing.

So really, this isnt' such a big mystery...its just that the "franchise" is kinda blah...

And i KNOW the box office numbers....but what people didn't recognize/ quickly forgot is that avatar was up against perhaps the softest two month period in film of the last 10 years when it was released...if had a lot of benefit from good timing and a dearth of competition.

lets be honest

the point is - i guess let's not even talk about it. i think fundamentally everyone will be "happy" with the expansion as long as they DO IT and do it well...
because we all are feeling a little rip off at this point...disney has "come out" one of their worst economic clients in its history and has announced it will "spend less"...while increasing fees all the way across the board.

We're disney dopes (i can only speak for myself)...but when the mouse ears come off - deep down - we know when we are having the screws tightened on us.

 

[sbell111]

I don't like the idea of an avatarland simply because avatar isn't a movie with 'legs' in my opinion. It will go down as a footnote in movie history and be largely forgotten.

A better plan for that area would be to build out an Australia- or Americas-themed area. Plunk down a rethemed ride or two copied from DisneySea and you've pretty much guaranteed a successful expansion.

I do, however, agree with those who argue that dinoland needs a total redo. the dino-themed carnival theme never really worked for me. I think that an actual prehistoric/dino themed land could work, but that's far from the direction that they chose. My choice would be to keep the dino ride and scrap all of the carnival junk, replacing it with a couple b-level dino themed rides and an expanded dino walkthrough/play area.

 

[tjkraz]

A better plan for that area would be to build out an Australia- or Americas-themed area. Plunk down a rethemed ride or two copied from DisneySea and you've pretty much guaranteed a successful expansion.

If by "successful expansion" you mean an attendance bump in the single-digit percent, no increase in merchandise sales and the die hard Disney fans saying "yay, something new to see!" then you are correct.

Problem is Disney doesn't want to spend a half billion for such modest results.

Avatar may or may not have long-term staying power but with three sequels in the pipeline it's likely to remain in the public eye for a decade or more. What Disney envisions is people walking out of Avatar 2 (and 3, and 4) and saying "that was cool....we should go check out that Disney park!"

Whether it works or not remains to be seen.

To use a baseball analogy, the Avatar project is like taking a big home run cut on a 3-0 count. The safe approach is try and draw the walk or wait on a good pitch for a solid base hit. That would be Disney putting $500M into non-headline grabbing projects like Australia. Same audience--no tremendous financial upside.

Avatar is a swing for the fences. Of course, there's also higher potential for a strikeout.

 

[Disco]

I don't like the idea of an avatarland simply because avatar isn't a movie with 'legs' in my opinion. It will go down as a footnote in movie history and be largely forgotten.

A better plan for that area would be to build out an Australia- or Americas-themed area. Plunk down a rethemed ride or two copied from DisneySea and you've pretty much guaranteed a successful expansion.

I do, however, agree with those who argue that dinoland needs a total redo. the dino-themed carnival theme never really worked for me. I think that an actual prehistoric/dino themed land could work, but that's far from the direction that they chose. My choice would be to keep the dino ride and scrap all of the carnival junk, replacing it with a couple b-level dino themed rides and an expanded dino walkthrough/play area.

It's hard for me to fathom how Disney could fail with a Dino themed park but they did. The old skeleton museum they had was better than the carni theme that replaced it.
Seriously, I mean for an Imagineer a Dino theme has to be the all honey pot they could hope for.
Considering AK needs a little love I won't fight against the Avatar theme idea anymore. Don't love it but I would compare it to Jurassic Park at US. It’s nice and has a good ride but I just don't think it will have staying power.
Now if they could get Tolkien in there that would be awesome. It would tie into their mythical Land they were planning and would have staying power for generations. The Hobbit movie coming out soon wouldn't hurt either. Too bad Tolkien hated Disney, it’s the only thing I can think of (other than a Star Wars land) that would crush Harry Potter.
With George Lucas checking out we’ll never see a SW land either. He just doesn’t give a crap anymore.

 

[LuvSnowWhite]

I hated the movie and I HATE the idea of a whole LAND with this ridiculous theme. I am getting so sad that Disney is ruining itself with these stupid ideas. If they have to have an Avatar "something" ride or whatever, put it in Disney Hollywood Studios where the theme is actually about movies. It's called "ANIMAL Kingdom" NOT Avatar Kingdom. An a WHOLE LAND would be an Epic Fail IMHO.
I just HATE the idea. If the powers that be at Disney keep pulling it down like this I will probably stop coming. And I go to DW every single year.

 

[mike the canuck]

So many haters. I'm pretty pumped for this. I'm really hoping for something cool and innovating. I really enjoyed the movies and I have no problem watching it again and again.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

I said this back when Avatarland was announced. Avatar is the S******* movie I've seen in a long time and it makes me sick and angry it's the highest grossing film of all time. That being said I refuse to pass any kind of judgement before seeing more solid plans. Cameron laid down a building block for what could be a really spectacular project if Disney goes "all out". We just don't know yet

 

[mike the canuck]

Cameron laid down a building block for what could be a really spectacular project if Disney goes "all out". We just don't know yet

I agree. I hope they do go "all out"

 

[dairylives]

So many haters. I'm pretty pumped for this. I'm really hoping for something cool and innovating. I really enjoyed the movies and I have no problem watching it again and again.

oh god. "haters" are not people with valid reasons to dislike something. These people are very eloquent and respectful with their distaste, unlike you who feel the need to discredit their opinions because they don't line up with yours.

 

[tjkraz]

oh god. "haters" are not people with valid reasons to dislike something. These people are very eloquent and respectful with their distaste, unlike you who feel the need to discredit their opinions because they don't line up with yours.

I must be missing the valid reasons for disliking a theme park expansion on which we haven't seen a single piece of concept art or basic written overview.

I understand that some folks don't care for Avatar. Big deal! I'm quite certain there are people who are not fans of Aerosmith, Twilight Zone, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter, Spider-Man, Men in Black and others who still enjoy their respective theme park attractions.

 

[madcat]

saw avatar once and once was enough for me. I cannot imagine what an entire "land" could consist of. I think that there are a lot of other lands that could be created that would do well. I agree that an avatar ride wouldn't be bad but an entire area dedicated to it.. no thank you. If something has to go into AK maybe a revamp of dinoland or even something dealing with underwater (I know that epcot has an entire section dedicated to this). I would like to see something in the MK dedicated to villians. Is anything going to be done in the parks with Marvel characters (like rides etc) since Disney bought them or will US get to keep the rights to the rides?