Let's speculate about Polynesian some more!

[DanCali]

But didn’t VGF sell poorly in 2022 after the few months of sales until DVD was forced to make it less expensive than RIV and roll out deep discounts this summer?

Did it sell well because they made it cheaper than RIV, or because they made the direct price comparable to resale?

I walked away from a signed resale contract in June because buying direct would have been just $9/point more. But other than the ability to book at RIV, the VGF resale product is not that different.

 

[maui22]

Haven't voted yet.

CFW is the 17th association, I suspect announcement will happen during annual meeting/2025 point charts. That leaves time to vote in the poll.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

But it's part of an existing resort not a new property.

Just like CCV

 

[SPLzero]

Just like CCV

Boulder ridge had 25 years left on the deed when CCV went live.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I'm 80% current. I think Disney will do what is easiest for Disney, and keeping it the same will make it easy. Different branding, operations, etc for a separate timeshare is just a pain. And BPK seems to have sold so well/quickly, that I see that influencing their decision.

BPK was an existing building,
Poly is not
BPK sold quickly when they gave almost a 60 dollar per point discount…

Not sure Disney would build a new resort, to fire sale it….

If DVD wants restrictions then new association is the way to go

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Boulder ridge had 25 years left on the deed when CCV went live.

So you are not disputing the fact that Disney created a new association at an existing resort? Just the timing?

It doesn’t change my point, it would not be the first time Disney created a new association at an existing resort.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

I think that would be minimal given that both are DVC and managemed by the same group.

But, I think this is about sales first and the long term product of DVC.

If it was as easy to combine, we’d have heard by now but they continue to keep it secret. And, only they know why.

If it was announced now/soon that it will be same association, wouldn't resale prices skyrocket?
It could also result in a reduction in PVB resale inventory, both reducing Direct sales competition???

(fwiw...In last 3 wks I called 3 resale offices (none affiliated here) inquiring about 3 resale contracts (none PVB) but I asked each agent about Tower. One said he knew nothing. One said their office "heard" same association & one said she "knows" it will not be a new association....File under: FWIW ONLY!)

 

[SPLzero]

So you are not disputing the fact that Disney created a new association at an existing resort?

DVD can make new associations as much as they want. In the past they have added new rooms 3 times to the same resorts. SSR Treehouses and VGF BPK were rolled into the same association. Copper creek and Boulder ridge were separate.

I just dont really see DVD keeping this association a secret on purpose. They really haven't given us anything about the new tower.

 

[MagicDVC]

BPK was an existing building,
Poly is not

Can't really use this logic, because Poly was existing buildings to begin with and now they are adding the new tower. VGF started with the new tower and then renovated an existing building. I'm still leaning towards 20% new, 8% same association as we are only on year 7 of PVB. This seems to be DVC's biggest secret of 2023.

 

[zavandor]

Haven't voted yet.

CFW is the 17th association, I suspect announcement will happen during annual meeting/2025 point charts. That leaves time to vote in the poll.

I don't think it will be at the annual meeting. Whatever they choose there will be unhappy people. They don't want to make the big announcement and then have half the room boo them.

Also, I do not expect any new booking category or resort to be in the 2025 point charts. Charts for VDH were released shortly before it went on sale. The same will be for Poly, same or different association alike.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

prior to Riviera they didn’t have the same resale restrictions.

BPK is an older building, they didn't add it they converted it….

The tree houses although drop me Lego’s on to what what there they really did t build those new either… I can remember stay there in the 80’s

I’m sure some one who care way more than I do can go back and check, but there was no info about BLT until 4 or 6 month before it opened….

I think we are going to have to until June of next year to now….

And I think that is online with what they have done

 

[SPLzero]

What does being a new building really mater?

Treehouses were repurposed.

 

[Jwaire]

We've debated this ad nauseam, but based on the sheer size and number of different room types—I can't see it being added to the current association.

That's just as well too because this thing is going to command a much higher point chart especially for rooms that face the castle. There's also the question of studios. They are definitely going to be smaller than PVB and we don't even know if they're going to sleep 5.

DVC loves to throw a wrench in new resorts.

Like GFV, once the new wears off, you're going to be able to book this tower at 7 months with direct points anyway. So, not sure it really matters.

Overall this tower was a rash decision by DVD and it shows. Not adding "real" infrastructure and amenities to an already crowded resort is going to just cause additional problems for both Poly hotel and PVB in addition downline to Grand Flo and GFV.

You think the monorail is tough to get on now at GF, just wait.

It should have had an equal sized themed pool, a Topolino's style restaurant at the top and its own bus stop. But like always, they cheaped out.

I hope they plan on dedicating a full-size boat to PVB/PVB2 (like Wilderness Lodge) once this opens instead of continuing to share a small launch with GF, but I doubt it.

 

[Jlo85]

But didn’t VGF sell poorly in 2022 after the few months of sales until DVD was forced to make it less expensive than RIV and roll out deep discounts this summer?

I think "deep discounts" and "fire sale" is a little hyperbole. They gave a discount of $23/point for VGF that was only 10% off. The rest of the discounts applied across the board to all resorts.

My sense is VGF gave them revenue that they've been craving for years. I think they'll follow that model. And I personally think same resort = more revenue. Especially since they've been targeting add-ons, and PVB is one of the larger resorts.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I think "deep discounts" and "fire sale" is a little hyperbole. They gave a discount of $23/point for VGF that was only 10% off. The rest of the discounts applied across the board to all resorts.

My sense is VGF gave them revenue that they've been craving for years. I think they'll follow that model. And I personally think same resort = more revenue. Especially since they've been targeting add-ons, and PVB is one of the larger resorts.

I believe you used the word hyperbole incorrectly.

It was listed at 217 per point and selling at 161…. That 56 dollars per point of….

That is almost 25 percent off a new product. That is a pretty deep discount.

If you had to give me 25 percent of your paycheck I think you would say your pay check was deeply discounts

 

[Sandisw]

I think "deep discounts" and "fire sale" is a little hyperbole. They gave a discount of $23/point for VGF that was only 10% off. The rest of the discounts applied across the board to all resorts.

My sense is VGF gave them revenue that they've been craving for years. I think they'll follow that model. And I personally think same resort = more revenue. Especially since they've been targeting add-ons, and PVB is one of the larger resorts.

I didn’t use those words. But the fact remains that until VGF was the lowest selling resort and they offered the MB program, it’s sales were not great.

That program is what got it moving when owners could get it in the $160s which brought its sales to a strong level.

Point is selling it was not a slam dunk for DVD or RIV would not have outsold it for 4 or 5 months in 2022

Not saying that Poly tower can’t be the same association, but the sales number of BPK would not be the reason they decide to do it.

 

[CarolynFH]

And I still believe that financially they will sell more being a new association vs combined.

That's what I believe, too.

(fwiw...In last 3 wks I called 3 resale offices (none affiliated here) inquiring about 3 resale contracts (none PVB) but I asked each agent about Tower. One said he knew nothing. One said their office "heard" same association & one said she "knows" it will not be a new association....File under: FWIW ONLY!)

Well, could it be that they want to sell you resale Poly points, so they want you to believe you'll be able to use them at Poly2?

I don't think it will be at the annual meeting. Whatever they choose there will be unhappy people. They don't want to make the big announcement and then have half the room boo them.

Yes, unfortunately, this is true. I remember that the first version of the 2020 points charts came out after the 2018 annual meeting, not before and not during, and I've always believed it was because they didn't want the uproar they knew would come with the big changes.

 

[Sandisw]

Did it sell well because they made it cheaper than RIV, or because they made the direct price comparable to resale?

I walked away from a signed resale contract in June because buying direct would have been just $9/point more. But other than the ability to book at RIV, the VGF resale product is not that different.

What we know is that until it was the cheaper than RIV, RIV did better in 2022 for several
months outside of the first months of sales.

During the first part of 2023, sales began to get better but they still were not considered great..and not suggesting RIVs were either

It was the MB program which brought it close to resale that sparked things because it made better sense seeing it was the same association and had no restrictions.

To me, it means that the same strategy might be needed to sell Poly tower if it’s part of PVB.

If it’s new, then there is no competition against PVB resale to compete with and it would be a longer contract

If Poly tower competes has to compete with resale PVB, i believe it will indeed have a similar effect on its sales…maybe not initially but shortly thereafter.

 

[Sandisw]

If it was announced now/soon that it will be same association, wouldn't resale prices skyrocket?
It could also result in a reduction in PVB resale inventory, both reducing Direct sales competition???

(fwiw...In last 3 wks I called 3 resale offices (none affiliated here) inquiring about 3 resale contracts (none PVB) but I asked each agent about Tower. One said he knew nothing. One said their office "heard" same association & one said she "knows" it will not be a new association....File under: FWIW ONLY!)

It could help raise them. But wouldn’t that be a good thing for DVD at this point?

I get maybe holding off in 2022…but now PVB is going in the $130s to $140s.

If I am DVD and know I want to sell Poly tower close to $200 to $220 a point, I would want that price to be closer…like it was for VGF when BPK started.

Take what they say in reference to this with that grain of salt because if they want to sell you a contract resale, saying it’s the same means your resale contract, regardless of resort, gets access.

Too many guides and DVC sales people have said there is no decision shared yet and in some cases, have heard comments that indicated same were walked back.

 

[Sandisw]

What does being a new building really mater?

Treehouses were repurposed.

The cost to build Poly tower is extensive which can’t compare to what was spent to renovate…in 3 months…BPK.

It was basically given a facelift. They also declared 100% of the rooms by the time it opened, which is not typical. It’s because they were having trouble with cash reservations at the Grand. So giving it to DVC to add to VGF solved two problems.