lens reviews with number ratings

[jann1033]

i find these the most helpful since sometimes at least with pro reviews the words get me bogged down but wonder is anyone has noticed if the ratings are fairly consistent or accurate. i mean sites like fred miranda( x out ot10) and photodo( x out of5) that rate lenses by reviews but also give a number rating...any number below which you wouldn't go if you use these?
thanks

 

[deletedpenguin]

Fred&Miranda seem pretty spot on about alot of their ratings, from my experience. They're a pretty reliable site, overall.

 

[tinksdad]

The FM site is one of my favorites. I also like the SLR Gear Review guys. Suppose to be independent lab that tests quite a few lenses. The users have reviews (which might be biased) but give a good feel for how the lens might perform.

Here's a quote from their site:
Looking for a new camera lens or other piece of gear for your SLR? SLRgear is the place to come for camera lens reviews from our own lab, as well as from fellow readers. It's not just about camera lenses though, you'll find hundreds of reviews on everything from camera bags to tripod heads as well. Check the listings below, and while you're browsing, please consider leaving a few reviews of your own, to help others searching for their perfect gear!

 

[mhutchinson]

Another very useful site for lens information is http://the-digital-picture.com/Default.aspx. The information is very objective and with really good sample pictures from each lens reviewed.

Mike

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I'm always skeptical of user reviews of lenses. There is usually very little rigor in their evaluations and subsequent rankings. There also tends to be large difference between brand rankings.

It is not uncommon to see decent reviews given to poor performing lenses. Some lenses, like superzooms, are often purchased by people with very little experience with high quality lenses. For that reason, you often see cheap, mediocre lenses with ratings as high or higher than lenses that are much better.

A good example of this on FM's site is the "Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM" which rated 7.6 while the "Canon EF 28-105 F/3.5-4.5 II USM" rated 8.6. That's almost exactly the opposite of the way I'd rank them based on my experience and conversations with people that know what they are talking about. The problem is that the 24-85 used to be a very popular "cheap" zoom lens for serious photographers wanting to travel light and the 28-105 was a popular choice of newbies wanting a zoom lens. The basis for comparison of the two groups was quite different.

Another problem with single number reviews is that they reduce the entire performance of a lens to a single number. Some zooms are very good at one end of the range and terrible at the other. Some lenses work well for cropped bodies but suffer terrible vignetting or edge distortion on film or full-frame bodies.

When comparing lenses, I prefer to compare MFT charts along with written reviews that discuss things like usability, build quality, etc. Methods for computing MTF charts vary from company to company, so I wouldn't use them to compare across brands.

I'm also skeptical about a lot of cross-brand comparisons. On this board, I've seen several cases where Pentaxions have dumped on the Rebel kit lens. The Rebel kit lens gets some justifiable grief, but part of that is because of the recent popularity of some very high quality Canon lenses. I've never seen a straight up comparison of the Canon kit lens vs the equivalent Nikon or Pentax lens. I suspect that it would hold up suprisingly well in the comparison.

 

[jann1033]

I'm always skeptical of user reviews of lenses. There is usually very little rigor in their evaluations and subsequent rankings. There also tends to be large difference between brand rankings.

It is not uncommon to see decent reviews given to poor performing lenses. Some lenses, like superzooms, are often purchased by people with very little experience with high quality lenses. For that reason, you often see cheap, mediocre lenses with ratings as high or higher than lenses that are much better.

A good example of this on FM's site is the "Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM" which rated 7.6 while the "Canon EF 28-105 F/3.5-4.5 II USM" rated 8.6. That's almost exactly the opposite of the way I'd rank them based on my experience and conversations with people that know what they are talking about. The problem is that the 24-85 used to be a very popular "cheap" zoom lens for serious photographers wanting to travel light and the 28-105 was a popular choice of newbies wanting a zoom lens. The basis for comparison of the two groups was quite different.

Another problem with single number reviews is that they reduce the entire performance of a lens to a single number. Some zooms are very good at one end of the range and terrible at the other. Some lenses work well for cropped bodies but suffer terrible vignetting or edge distortion on film or full-frame bodies.

When comparing lenses, I prefer to compare MFT charts along with written reviews that discuss things like usability, build quality, etc. Methods for computing MTF charts vary from company to company, so I wouldn't use them to compare across brands.

I'm also skeptical about a lot of cross-brand comparisons. On this board, I've seen several cases where Pentaxions have dumped on the Rebel kit lens. The Rebel kit lens gets some justifiable grief, but part of that is because of the recent popularity of some very high quality Canon lenses. I've never seen a straight up comparison of the Canon kit lens vs the equivalent Nikon or Pentax lens. I suspect that it would hold up suprisingly well in the comparison.

well that just shocks me! i personally i think the rebel/canon has become the scapegoat of those threads, whateverso 1/2 the camera buying population are idiots i guess ...and no one has yet to address my comment about buying plastic lenses vs plastic bodies

i had noticed that as well about not so good lenses getting high marks since probably any "Real person" reviews can have that element of not wanting to dis their purchase. i do like the way phootdo also has tech review #, which are usually lower rated than individual reviews. I t just seems like dpreview and some others just give the media blurp which is kind of annoying

 

[ukcatfan]

As I am sure I am one of guys you are talking about, I will respond. As for the quality of the images coming out, I only base my opinion on what I have heard. It is dumped on by many people (including Canon owners) on other sites. In fact, it is probably the most dumped on kit around. I am just repeating what I have heard. What did directly influence my decision was the build quality. The Canon kit looks and feels very cheap IMO. That is a decision everyone must make on their own. It almost looks like it is unfinished or like it is missing a part or something. For what it is worth, I felt the same way about the Nikon kit. I didn't look at Sony/Minolta or Olympus.

Kevin

 

[jann1033]

As I am sure I am one of guys you are talking about, I will respond. As for the quality of the images coming out, I only base my opinion on what I have heard. It is dumped on by many people (including Canon owners) on other sites. In fact, it is probably the most dumped on kit around. I am just repeating what I have heard. What did directly influence my decision was the build quality. The Canon kit looks and feels very cheap IMO. That is a decision everyone must make on their own. It almost looks like it is unfinished or like it is missing a part or something. For what it is worth, I felt the same way about the Nikon kit. I didn't look at Sony/Minolta or Olympus.

Kevin

Kevin yes, that is your option,. the pro reviews i've read totally disagree with you so maybe it's a entry level camera bias on what ever site you read and just image what they would say about Pentax . but you know I've never trashed your camera( or anyone else's) just because i think that is a very rude thing to do. however, off the top of my head i wasn't thinking of you or anyone else in particular. i don't come here to read rude comments so after the first couple days i avoid threads that are like that and that was what those threads that were supposed to help someone consider options available to them turned into.
i do however find it hysterical that of all those who draw back in terror at the thought of touching a plastic body,no one minds plastic lenses. i could make some really rude comments about that but i won't

 

[Groucho]

Jann, I fear that you may be taking things a little too personally. If we dump on Canon, it doesn't mean that we're dumping on Canon users. Furthermore, I don't think it's rude to comment on camera equipment - what would be the point of someone asking, then, if they'll only hear positives?

the pro reviews i've read totally disagree with you

DPReview, XT: "New kit lens disappointing at telephoto with smaller apertures"
DPReview, XTi: "Kit lens disappointing, better to buy body only and spend more on a good lens" (along with criticisms of body ergonomics)
Megapixel, XTi: "Photos captured at the wide angle end of the zoom and with a wide aperture are visibly soft, and more uniform sharpness is obtained when the lens is stopped down to f8. Likewise, a chromatic aberration is also noticeable when there are strong contrasts, and is more pronounced in the corners of the frame." (they go on to state that the "L" lenses are much better - big surprise there, eh?) The summary states: "Kit lens not up to the camera's capabilities."
DCResource, XT: "Kit lens is disappointing at smaller apertures"
DCResource, XTi: "If you get the lens kit you'll also get Canon's second generation 18 - 55 mm EF-S lens in the box. I used this lens back when I reviewed the Rebel XT, and it's not the greatest -- it tends to get soft at smaller apertures. It's a decent everyday lens, but there are better lenses out there -- there's a reason why this thing costs $100."
Imaging Resource had terrible results from the kit lens but they admit that it was worse than they'd seen elsewhere and it may have been not working properly.

The XT lens didn't even come with a hood - I'm not sure about the XTi one. One non-IQ benefit of the Pentax kit lens is that the front element doesn't rotate during focusing, unlike the Canon and Nikon ones, which makes it suitable for use with a circular polarizer.

For comparison:
Megapixel, K100D: "This is a lens that offers good sharpness at all focal lengths, and which has practically no barrel distortion at the wide angle end, and no pincushion distortion at the telephoto end. Likewise, images captured with this lens reveal no chromatic aberration at any point in the focal length range. A small amount of vignetting, however, can be detected in some wide angle shots when using a wide aperture."
Imaging Resource on the K100D: "Unlike some kit lenses, the lens on this camera is appears (sic) of decent quality."
Imaging Resource, K10D: "...the bundled 18-55mm lens is built very nicely, made of metal, and quite handsome. Its performance is decent, just a little above most kit lenses..."
DPReview did not list the kit lens as a negative and I couldn't find a mention of it inside and I have to go run an errand so can't spend much more time.

Anyway, Jann, we all love you and I promise that we're not trying to beat up on you! However, the Canon kit lens is singled out by many as being a real weak point of the Rebel series. And the Pentax 18-5mm kit lens is certainly no top-shelf lens either but does not get the negative marks that the Canon does.

 

[ukcatfan]

Kevin yes, that is your option,. the pro reviews i've read totally disagree with you so maybe it's a entry level camera bias on what ever site you read and just image what they would say about Pentax . but you know I've never trashed your camera( or anyone else's) just because i think that is a very rude thing to do. however, off the top of my head i wasn't thinking of you or anyone else in particular. i don't come here to read rude comments so after the first couple days i avoid threads that are like that and that was what those threads that were supposed to help someone consider options available to them turned into.
i do however find it hysterical that of all those who draw back in terror at the thought of touching a plastic body,no one minds plastic lenses. i could make some really rude comments about that but i won't

Groucho covered much of this, but I will add some.

If you look back, you will notice that I did not quote you. I was not responding to you, I was responding to Mark. Please do not think that I was trying to single you out or anything. Like Groucho said, I seems like you took this too personal when it was never intended that way. If I offended you, then I am sorry.

I have gone into great detail before why I picked my camera over the Canons, Nikons, etc. I will try to keep this brief and go over the high points. (BTW... I was a Canon fan before and after my purchase of a Pentax) I went out expecting to pick the XT. Once I handled it side by side with the 30D, D50, and *istDL I decided that the XT was not for me. It just did not feel like that much of an upgrade over my S1 IS compared to the other offerings. The main thing was the feel in my hands, but I also did not like the small LCD, the button placement, the viewfinder seemed dimmer, and the kit lens does not seem as nice build wise, not IQ wise. Keep in mind that I have no plans to go right out and replace that range with another lens, so I need it to last. The IS of my K100D had no part in my brand decision in case you are wondering. I was going to go with the *istDL but the prices went too high. Then I was going to go with the K110D, but felt like the extra $75 or so that it was at the time to get IS was worth it.

If money were not as much of an issue, then I would likely be a 30D owner right now, but it is an issue for me as I am sure it is for others as well. I offer my viewpoint to help others that might be in a similar situation. I have never insulted anyone for picking a Canon, and would not insult you either. I believe that you made the correct decision for you due to you already having a Canon lens collection. I did not have that situation and feel like I made the correct decision even after about six months of use.

I also must say that with my decision, I am only about $100 invested in the Pentax system if I decide change to a different brand whenever I upgrade bodies. I am sure that this number will increase, but it cannot go up by too much unless I plan to start living in the garage b/c DW would not approve. She is happy with a $10 fixed lens film p&s from Walmart, so a DSLR was a tough sell even spending as little as I did. Don't take me wrong, it is not like I am neglecting my responsibilities by spending what I did, she just does not see the improvement as being cost effective. But anyway...

As for the plastic body thing, my K100D is also mostly plastic and that was not much of a deciding point for me.

Kevin

 

[jann1033]

kevin and groucho, thanks for the explanations and i'm not trying to be overly sensitve i guess it's just my paranoia kicking in due to my yrs as a CIA agent