Lawsuit at Disneyland - woman who fell when exiting Jungle Cruise boat

[KPeterso]

We were at Disneyland Wednesday and Thursday this week. We rode jungle cruise on Wednesday. We had a bit of a wait for the handicap boat. We did see that they are still using the boxes for load/unload. Saw an elderly woman using them. Her family was helping her and holding onto her for each step up and into the boat. She probably would have benefited from the special boat, but we were 3rd group in line and that would have made them the fourth and there is only 1 special boat at jungle cruise at Disneyland.

 

[nalabear]

I'm surprised there's no paragraph to agree to arbitration in the ticket disclosures.

 

[chaoslobster]

I think that if they see someone who truly needs help getting in and out of a ride, (ex. the person has a cane, trouble walking, etc.), they’ll offer assistance no matter what.

Yeah, almost all CMs will. They are not supposed to, I'm pretty sure they could get in trouble, but they're human beings too and it's difficult to not just offer someone a hand when you can see it's needed.

I sometimes struggle getting in and especially out of certain rides, it depends on my balance and pain level that day. If I'm alone I just avoid rides where I know I need help, but I'll usually take a chance if I know I've been able to manage it before and I'm having a good pain day. Sometimes I'm wrong and a CM will give me a hand for balance or a bit of a boost. I've never once needed help and had them just watch me struggle without offering. I'm sure it helps that I'm basically child-sized, too.

 

[NightGuardianAngel]

It was her fault. Disney has a complete guide to all rides and accessibility information and all of the information about the inherited risks. She should have consulted this guide before riding. The guests assumes all risks associated with the ride by choosing to participate. These was no negligence on Disney’s end, especially when Disney explained that Cast Members are not allowed to carry or even touch guests way in advanced before even visiting Disney World. There is such thing called rider’s responsibility. This is like suing a ski resort because you fell while skiing, which is a natural and inherited risk of the sport. I sure hope Disney win this one. The Americans With Disabilities Act only requires reasonable accommodations to be provided. However, the Cast Members who are laughing at her should be disciplined or fired.

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on Disney’s part.

 

[HopperFan]

I think that if they see someone who truly needs help getting in and out of a ride, (ex. the person has a cane, trouble walking, etc.), they’ll offer assistance no matter what.

Yeah, almost all CMs will. They are not supposed to, I'm pretty sure they could get in trouble, but they're human beings too and it's difficult to not just offer someone a hand when you can see it's needed.

I sometimes struggle getting in and especially out of certain rides, it depends on my balance and pain level that day. If I'm alone I just avoid rides where I know I need help, but I'll usually take a chance if I know I've been able to manage it before and I'm having a good pain day. Sometimes I'm wrong and a CM will give me a hand for balance or a bit of a boost. I've never once needed help and had them just watch me struggle without offering. I'm sure it helps that I'm basically child-sized, too.

Disagree. CMs are not to help you, that is clearly their instructions. Yes at JC they hold a hand out because you have a boat at a dock and you can use their hand as a balance to your other hand holding on to the boat. They are not trying to help you out, pull you up etc, they are merely providing a counter balance to the rail because the boat bobbles. NO ONE should expect any kind of assistance. My DS is clearly disabled, unsteady on his feet and sometimes balance issues (I even have vertigo) and never have we been offered assistance as we wobbled.

I have an example from our fall trip. Some DUMB family thought it be okay to send elderly grandma with a broken shoulder to take their toddler on the SPEEDWAY. The bumper rail ride that even the best adult driver struggles with. A ride that could further damage her injury. They pulled back in to the spot behind me. Grandma could not get out, could not stand up, could not pull herself with her good arm. She was very frail. The CM (with a look of panic) stood there, asked the toddler if they could push grandma up and was just watching. I finally locked my legs and held the "windshield" bar, told grandma if she wanted to grab me she could. She kept saying "my shoulder is broken" ... yeah and where is your family? She finally after holding up ride for awhile was able to get at an angle to get out. The CM profusely thanked me. At the end of our ride the CM found me and thanked me so much, I told her no problem I know that she is not allowed to help. She felt terrible but had her protocol. The CMs only option was to call medical to get her out of the car. I could have gotten in our car and left but no way I was loading if we came back around to wait for medical to get her out. I wanted her out of her car before I boarded.

CMS are not to help for SO MANY reasons. It is not their job or responsibility, and actually against their job. If you don't think you can unload then be prepared for medical to evac you.


NOTE: MY DD worked attractions, not to touch or help anyone. And in this litigious society, you are asking for trouble if you do help. I should not have offered. Better off letting the professional do that aka medical teams.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

It was her fault. Disney has a complete guide to all rides and accessibility information and all of the information about the inherited risks. She should have consulted this guide before riding. The guests assumes all risks associated with the ride by choosing to participate. These was no negligence on Disney’s end, especially when Disney explained that Cast Members are not allowed to carry or even touch guests way in advanced before even visiting Disney World. There is such thing called rider’s responsibility. This is like suing a ski resort because you fell while skiing, which is a natural and inherited risk of the sport. I sure hope Disney win this one. The Americans With Disabilities Act only requires reasonable accommodations to be provided. However, the Cast Members who are laughing at her should be disciplined or fired.

A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on Disney’s part.

agree if CMs were laughing at guest and not unrelated to the fall. CM could have been laughing with another guest not seeing what was happening

 

[LiDa]

The part of the lawsuit that seems shady is the accusation that "the cast members refused to help her." They literally are not allowed to help you. They can't really touch you. That's the rule.

I feel for these daughters, but transferring into and out of ride vehicles is an "at your own risk and under your own power" type deal at Disneyland and they are very clear about that.

This woman should not have boarded this attraction and when told the special wheelchair boat was not available, just accepted that and moved on to another attraction.

No doubt they will settle this lawsuit out of court. No one would ever blame Disney for this outcome. There was no ride malfunction or any other contributing factor to the woman falling.

I disagree only with your statement: "No one would ever blame Disney for this outcome. " I'm sure there are plenty of people who will blame them.

Not only do I work in visitors services, but I have traveled all over with wheelchair users and people with other mobility issues. We have never NOT taken responsibility for our own actions. I'm sorry this woman suffered injury, but I agree that it sounds as if she & her party were expecting the CMs to do something that is not their responsibility.

 

[LiDa]

At Disneyland there is no excuse for the accessible boat to not be available, as there are two of them, so even if one goes down, there is a second one that should be available. There may be a wait for it, but it should be available.

With respect, there are always reasons something may go wrong.

 

[LiDa]

Sure, but Disney's admission media and disclosure online very clearly states that all rides may not be available at all times for any reason and that is not grounds for refunds or taking legal action.

Perhaps the wheelchair boat wasn't working. Disney doesn't owe anyone guaranteed access to every ride in the park. It's not a violation of ADA. They have to make a reasonable accommodation when possible, but people also need to know their limits.

As a theatre manager, I can attest to the fact that not many people truly understand ADA. I have to navigate this all the time, but mostly with people w/ temporary or new permanent disabilities.

I also work at a nonprofit & we recently had a series of very important webinars. We were asked by a Deaf friend of mine to line up an ASL interpreter for one & my management REFUSED. They felt closed captioning was enough. Have you ever used CC on Zoom? Yeah, well.... I said if one is requested we need to provide it, so there's nothing wrong with lining one up. I was told to stay in my lane.

I once got on a plane with a friend with cerebral palsy. She was clearly mobility-impaired & should not have been the only person seated in an exit row, in case of emergency. The flight attendants looked at her, spoke to her, rolled their eyes (2 of them!) & moved on. This is the OPPOSITE of what they were supposed to do. I thought, "We're all going to die."

 

[chaoslobster]

Disagree. CMs are not to help you, that is clearly their instructions.

I'm not sure you understand what I said. Let me be more clear.

CMs are not supposed to touch guests for any reason. They're not supposed to help you at all because of liability. They can get in trouble for doing so.

Most CMs will offer a hand despite this, because CMs are also human beings, not robot drones.
When a nice person sees somebody off-balance who needs a steadying hand, in that moment the human being usually overrides the Disney Policy. It's instinctive.

Should they? No, it's against policy. Do they do it anyway? Yes. The type of person who loves Disney enough to be a CM is rarely able to stand impassively and watch a guest struggle when all that's needed is a steadying hand.

I'm genuinely not certain why you "disagree" with this?

I'm NOT saying that guests should depend on this. If you're disabled or especially have balance issues you need to be keenly aware that if you need help and a CM instinctively reaches out, it could get them in trouble, possibly even fired. That's why I don't do rides where I know or even suspectI'll need help. But I will go on rides where I'm sure it'll be fine, because I've never had a problem with that ride before.

On occasion, it turns out I was wrong and I did wobble getting on or off a ride car. I'm also only human. We all are. At the instant I lose my balance, the CM isn't thinking "I could get fired, I should let her fall" and I'm not thinking "they could get fired, I shouldn't take their hand" -- it's a split second when they offer me a hand and I take it, steady myself, and let go.

I'm not suggesting that people with balance issues should go around doing rides they're uncertain about and assume a CM will step in if anything happens. I was just replying to someone who stated that most CMs will offer a hand regardless of policy. Yeah, they will. That's why we as guests have a responsibility to ensure a CM's kindness doesn't get them into trouble.

 

[HopperFan]

I'm not sure you understand what I said. Let me be more clear.

CMs are not supposed to touch guests for any reason. They're not supposed to help you at all because of liability. They can get in trouble for doing so.

Most CMs will offer a hand despite this, because CMs are also human beings, not robot drones.
When a nice person sees somebody off-balance who needs a steadying hand, in that moment the human being usually overrides the Disney Policy. It's instinctive.

Should they? No, it's against policy. Do they do it anyway? Yes. The type of person who loves Disney enough to be a CM is rarely able to stand impassively and watch a guest struggle when all that's needed is a steadying hand.

I'm genuinely not certain why you "disagree" with this?

I'm NOT saying that guests should depend on this. If you're disabled or especially have balance issues you need to be keenly aware that if you need help and a CM instinctively reaches out, it could get them in trouble, possibly even fired. That's why I don't do rides where I know or even suspectI'll need help. But I will go on rides where I'm sure it'll be fine, because I've never had a problem with that ride before.

On occasion, it turns out I was wrong and I did wobble getting on or off a ride car. I'm also only human. We all are. At the instant I lose my balance, the CM isn't thinking "I could get fired, I should let her fall" and I'm not thinking "they could get fired, I shouldn't take their hand" -- it's a split second when they offer me a hand and I take it, steady myself, and let go.

I'm not suggesting that people with balance issues should go around doing rides they're uncertain about and assume a CM will step in if anything happens. I was just replying to someone who stated that most CMs will offer a hand regardless of policy. Yeah, they will. That's why we as guests have a responsibility to ensure a CM's kindness doesn't get them into trouble.

Without going into examples I've experienced and witnessed, I'll just say I disagree with the statement that "most" will offer physical assistance. When you work in a place with very strict rules on guest engagement, those things do mold your reactions.

 

[BillSears]

At Disneyland there is no excuse for the accessible boat to not be available, as there are two of them, so even if one goes down, there is a second one that should be available. There may be a wait for it, but it should be available.

I visited DL in 2019 and they had both wheelchair lifts boats out of service. In the week I was there I stopped by 5 times to try to ride JC and every time both boats were out of service. Both boats out of service for a full week. Every time the CM would apologize and suggest I return the next day and they might be back in service. It's a shame because I was really looking forward to riding the DL Jungle Cruise.

 

[KPeterso]

At Disneyland there is no excuse for the accessible boat to not be available, as there are two of them, so even if one goes down, there is a second one that should be available. There may be a wait for it, but it should be available.

in my experience, there is only 1 lift boat at Disneyland. When we rode it a couple weeks ago, we had to wait for the full cycle for the boat. We watched the family who used it before us board and go around and when they got back it was our turn to board. There are often at least 2-3 groups waiting for the special boat and having to wait full cycles for it to return. Small world on the other hand has 2 Ada boats.

 

[JLTraveling]

Without going into examples I've experienced and witnessed, I'll just say I disagree with the statement that "most" will offer physical assistance. When you work in a place with very strict rules on guest engagement, those things do mold your reactions.

And it's not just "the rules," it's also the "why" behind the rules that can mold reactions. I was an attractions CM for awhile. One of the biggest things they drill into your head is that you can do MORE damage by trying to help. I have a friend who has a spot on the top of her head that if it accidentally gets touched, she will pass out instantly. Now, she's in great shape and I only learned about this during stage combat class, but she's a perfect example of "you never know." A CM has no way of knowing if you're unsteady because of an injury or a neurological condition or what, and which ways of handling you might make you more likely to fall or even cause a complication to a possible injury. So yes, being a concerned human being always kicks in...but so does the fear of making things worse, not just the fear of being fired or of messing up your own body or whatever.

 

[SueM in MN]

And it's not just "the rules," it's also the "why" behind the rules that can mold reactions. I was an attractions CM for awhile. One of the biggest things they drill into your head is that you can do MORE damage by trying to help. I have a friend who has a spot on the top of her head that if it accidentally gets touched, she will pass out instantly. Now, she's in great shape and I only learned about this during stage combat class, but she's a perfect example of "you never know." A CM has no way of knowing if you're unsteady because of an injury or a neurological condition or what, and which ways of handling you might make you more likely to fall or even cause a complication to a possible injury. So yes, being a concerned human being always kicks in...but so does the fear of making things worse, not just the fear of being fired or of messing up your own body or whatever.

This

As an RN Infection Prevention Specialist working in a hospital, I would not help anyone out of bed or transfer without someone who knew the patient and knew how to help that person transfer.
That is policy - I willingly help another caregiver who knows the patient and can direct me how to help.
I know safe transfer principles, but I don’t know the particulars for that person. I’ve been in enough situations with my daughter where someone wanted to help, actually made transfers harder or got in the way of what I needed to do.

 

[SueM in MN]

Without going into examples I've experienced and witnessed, I'll just say I disagree with the statement that "most" will offer physical assistance. When you work in a place with very strict rules on guest engagement, those things do mold your reactions.

I’ve always been told that the limits of what CMs are able to offer are to move or steady a wheelchair OR to offer a steadying hand if the CM feels comfortable offering a steadying hand.

There are also some attractions where a CM pushes the guest in their wheelchair into the accessible ride vehicle. Examples include Jungle Cruise and those like Buzz Lightyear, Toy Story Mania and Little Mermaid where the companion needs to be already in the vehicle before the wheelchair can be loaded.

There are very few attractions where a CM is even close enough to vehicles while loading or unloading to even offer a steadying hand. At the load point, there is usually one CM grouper directing guests which ride vehicle/line to go to. At unload, there is usually one watching unload for issues and directing guests which direction to go to leave.
The ONLY attraction I can think of where CMs offer a steadying hand, along with steadying the boat is Jungle Cruise - and it’s offered to all guest leaving the boat, not just those with disabilities.

When my DD was little and more ‘portable‘, there were a lot of rides we took her on that we not longer do. For many, like Pirates, no amount of assistance would help, even if CMs were able to offer it. Some, like Test Track are still doable for us, but they are not easy transfers so we don’t do them often.
Even with DH or I directing someone else to help, things can go wrong. On our first ride on Navi River ride, we were with a male friend who wanted to help with the transfer instead of me. My DH instructed the friend exactly what to do, but interpretation of what that meant exactly was apparently not clear to our friend. DD ended up not well positioned on the seat and felt like her butt was slipping off the seat. She got scared she would slide to the floor about halfway thru the ride and refuses to go on it again.

 

[Mle8308]

I’ve always been told that the limits of what CMs are able to offer are to move or steady a wheelchair OR to offer a steadying hand if the CM feels comfortable offering a steadying hand.

There are also some attractions where a CM pushes the guest in their wheelchair into the accessible ride vehicle. Examples include Jungle Cruise and those like Buzz Lightyear, Toy Story Mania and Little Mermaid where the companion needs to be already in the vehicle before the wheelchair can be loaded.

There are very few attractions where a CM is even close enough to vehicles while loading or unloading to even offer a steadying hand. At the load point, there is usually one CM grouper directing guests which ride vehicle/line to go to. At unload, there is usually one watching unload for issues and directing guests which direction to go to leave.
The ONLY attraction I can think of where CMs offer a steadying hand, along with steadying the boat is Jungle Cruise - and it’s offered to all guest leaving the boat, not just those with disabilities.

When my DD was little and more ‘portable‘, there were a lot of rides we took her on that we not longer do. For many, like Pirates, no amount of assistance would help, even if CMs were able to offer it. Some, like Test Track are still doable for us, but they are not easy transfers so we don’t do them often.
Even with DH or I directing someone else to help, things can go wrong. On our first ride on Navi River ride, we were with a male friend who wanted to help with the transfer instead of me. My DH instructed the friend exactly what to do, but interpretation of what that meant exactly was apparently not clear to our friend. DD ended up not well positioned on the seat and felt like her butt was slipping off the seat. She got scared she would slide to the floor about halfway thru the ride and refuses to go on it again.

You are absolutely corrrect in saying a CM can offer “a steadying hand” if comfortable. It’s more of the forearm, but this is allowed. They can’t assist with anything more physical.

 

[WonkaKid]

I don’t believe for a minute that they stood around laughing at her.

Neither do I. Was someone laughing? Perhaps. But it seems likely that if they were, it was at something or someone else. I simply can’t imagine CMs laughing at a disabled guest. Countless times I’ve seen visitors that need help in a range of ways and CMs were always quick to act. Moreover, they’re overwhelmingly kind and compassionate. Given what I’ve seen form CMs over the years, I can’t accept that they laughed at a woman as she fell, let alone a disabled woman. Anything is possible, of course. But I’ve been to DL perhaps 200 times and if I ever saw behavior that even approached something like that I’d be beyond shocked.