Lasseter Taking Sabbatical over "Missteps"

[TheMaxRebo]

Not everyone wants to be touched. At work, I don't. It'd be an HR issue.

I have to agree. I think hugging at work is inappropriate and crosses some boundaries.

Obviously it is up to each individual what is appropriate for them or not, but I guess how would someone know unless someone says something? Obviously if someone says they prefer not to be hugged or indicate it somehow and then the other person keeps trying that is very wrong, and needs to be addressed. Maybe just the company I work for or industry (insurance) I am in but I see hugging or kisses on the cheeks quite often - both with colleagues or when meeting clients

And then when dealing with Latin America everyone kisses each other on the cheek (up to 3 times, depending on the country)

 

[amberpi]

Obviously it is up to each individual what is appropriate for them or not, but I guess how would someone know unless someone says something? Obviously if someone says they prefer not to be hugged or indicate it somehow and then the other person keeps trying that is very wrong, and needs to be addressed. Maybe just the company I work for or industry (insurance) I am in but I see hugging or kisses on the cheeks quite often - both with colleagues or when meeting clients

And then when dealing with Latin America everyone kisses each other on the cheek (up to 3 times, depending on the country)

There are definitely some cultural normative things you have to work with respectfully. Personally, I'm so glad my subject matter expertise is in US/EU cross border stuff. It's not like my English, German, or Swiss banking clients/colleagues are known for being touchy-feelly. I'm not one to run to HR, but I have absolutely said "I'm not much of a hugger" in a professional situation if I didn't think it'd be offensive. Consultants (MBAs and/or attorneys) and bankers, which is my world, aren't exactly known for being warm bunch. I mean, I seem down right lighthearted compared to Swiss bankers

I really think the world is changing and people are more aware of their actions and hopefully, that will continue and in a few years, we won't have fatigue about inappropriate behavior as it'll be dealt with swiftly and at the time of incident. I mentioned I've noticed some insanely positive change on the dating scene in terms of consent. It's really positive and while this recent spate of learning about all these flipping creeps sucks, it's great to get that out of positions of authority at whatever point instead of maintaining the same old, same old.

 

[jade1]

In France the women in the office kissed each man's cheek.....every morning.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

There are definitely some cultural normative things you have to work with respectfully. Personally, I'm so glad my subject matter expertise is in US/EU cross border stuff. It's not like my English, German, or Swiss banking clients/colleagues are known for being touchy-feelly. I'm not one to run to HR, but I have absolutely said "I'm not much of a hugger" in a professional situation if I didn't think it'd be offensive. Consultants (MBAs and/or attorneys) and bankers, which is my world, aren't exactly known for being warm bunch. I mean, I seem down right lighthearted compared to Swiss bankers

I really think the world is changing and people are more aware of their actions and hopefully, that will continue and in a few years, we won't have fatigue about inappropriate behavior as it'll be dealt with swiftly and at the time of incident. I mentioned I've noticed some insanely positive change on the dating scene in terms of consent. It's really positive and while this recent spate of learning about all these flipping creeps sucks, it's great to get that out of positions of authority at whatever point instead of maintaining the same old, same old.

Guess Swiss Insurance people are different than Swiss Bankers, as whenever I am in Zurich for meetings/off sites there is a lot of hugging when you say hi to colleagues.

Glad to hear your comments about positive movement in the dating scene - I think that is the big thing in really any setting... that people respect each other and can speak up for what they feel is ok or not ok and the other party totally respect that

 

[mikebb]

I have to agree. I think hugging at work is inappropriate and crosses some boundaries.

Typically I would agree but it can be dangerous to make blanket assertions like "it's always inappropriate". (Disclaimer, the following is not in any way the same universe as the Lasseter, Weinstein, etc stories...)

To illustrate, I have worked for the same company for close to 20 years and while I'm not an overtly personal person at work, I have of course developed close relationships with co-workers over the years. We have shared joyous and terrible moments in each others lives. After all, if I count the hours, there are probably people at work who I've spent as much or more time with than my wife.

As formal as I like to keep things, there are a handful of times that I shared hugs or put an arm around the shoulders of both female and male co-workers over the years. Harsh layoffs, sickness of a spouse, and death of a close relative are a few things that come to mind. So again, please don't conflate this with acceptance of harassment (sexual or not), but there can be and are circumstances where co-workers may appropriately and consensually share physical contact.

I would hate for an outsider to see me as a man comforting a grieving female co-worker whom I've known personally for years and automatically think "inappropriate!"

 

[amberpi]

Guess Swiss Insurance people are different than Swiss Bankers, as whenever I am in Zurich for meetings/off sites there is a lot of hugging when you say hi to colleagues.

Glad to hear your comments about positive movement in the dating scene - I think that is the big thing in really any setting... that people respect each other and can speak up for what they feel is ok or not ok and the other party totally respect that

I've seen some French-Swiss do the double kiss thing. I actually prefer that as it's typically arm to arm and then cheek to cheek. Hugging can get weirder faster in my experience. It may also be me. I'm not super warm in professional situations; I'm sure that's shocking.

Yep, things are getting better. I've noticed *some* small progress with unsolicited pictures. I think folks are finally realizing that's not a great idea. Not sure why it took so long

 

[amberpi]

I would hate for an outsider to see me as a man comforting a grieving female co-worker whom I've known personally for years and automatically think "inappropriate!"

It's always shades of gray. When you have a long term relationship with someone you'd know if that person would be comforted by a hug, or would just want to have a minute alone. Context, as always, is key.

 

[mikebb]

It's always shades of gray. When you have a long term relationship with someone you'd know if that person would be comforted by a hug, or would just want to have a minute alone. Context, as always, is key.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more about the context thing. Problem becomes that people love to apply absolutes to situations - I think saying things without context like "hugging at work is [always] inappropriate" if anything minimizes the severity of what people like Lasseter are accused of doing, because it puts the line SO far to one side that almost everyone seems "guilty of something".

All the way back to the topic at hand, this whole situation really bugs me and makes me feel awful. As a husband and father of a daughter I find it ridiculous and inexcusable that these things still go on - I've been so proud to raise my daughter in a modern country where I thought we'd put things like this behind us and WHAM - right in the gut again and again. I already couldn't turn on The Cosby Show and share my fond childhood memories of it with my kid because of what Bill Cosby did. Now I have to confront the same crummy feelings about all the Pixar movies we've enjoyed as a family.

 

[dina444444]

Another article from THR

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/john-lasseters-missteps-how-did-disney-execs-know-1062361

 

[jknezek]

Another article from THR

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/john-lasseters-missteps-how-did-disney-execs-know-1062361

Not much new in here. The speculation about who could take over is interesting and the last paragraph or two is really the heart of the matter. Not a real pretty picture for sure.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Another article from THR

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/john-lasseters-missteps-how-did-disney-execs-know-1062361

key take away for me is the last bit:

Iger probably will be the one to decide whether Lasseter can return. "The key to all this is Bob Iger's legacy," suggests a source. "Everything is about preserving his legacy, and if Lasseter's behavior threatens to tarnish that, they will throw John to the wolves."

 

[erin1715]

Another article from THR

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/john-lasseters-missteps-how-did-disney-execs-know-1062361

Quote from that article, "But given Lasseter's creative brilliance and track record of delivering hit after hit, "they shielded and protected him," adds a longtime Disney insider. This source adds that multiple employees "had talked to HR."

I think what is most disturbing is that the higher ups knew and protected him, and they still have done nothing even now. I love the Disney parks, but this behavior just goes to show that the thing Disney cares most about is making money hand over fist, even at the detriment to their employees. And before anyone says, all corporations care about making money, I'm sure Matt Lauer made NBC a ton of money too but they acted swiftly.

I know Iger cares most about his legacy and he's probably trying to feel this one out before he gets rid of his top money-maker.

 

[Mattimation]

Not much new in here. The speculation about who could take over is interesting and the last paragraph or two is really the heart of the matter. Not a real pretty picture for sure.

Jennifer Lee was my immediate thought to replace Lasseter. Disney is clearly investing in her future, with Wrinkle in Time and Frozen 2, and the optics of replacing a man accused of sexual harassment with a woman would be on point. Byron Howard taking over would also be socially exciting, since I don't believe there are many openly gay men with high-ranking positions in Hollywood Animation, though of the movies he's co-directed I only find Zootopia to be really great.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Quote from that article, "But given Lasseter's creative brilliance and track record of delivering hit after hit, "they shielded and protected him," adds a longtime Disney insider. This source adds that multiple employees "had talked to HR."

I think what is most disturbing is that the higher ups knew and protected him, and they still have done nothing even now. I love the Disney parks, but this behavior just goes to show that the thing Disney cares most about is making money hand over fist, even at the detriment to their employees. And before anyone says, all corporations care about making money, I'm sure Matt Lauer made NBC a ton of money too but they acted swiftly.

I know Iger cares most about his legacy and he's probably trying to feel this one out before he gets rid of his top money-maker.

I do think the details are important though - what exactly did they go to to HR with? Was it a formal complaint filing? and what did the Disney executives know? everything that is alleged to have happened or just that at parties he could drink a lot and then got too huggy?

Maybe they knew everything and there were formal complaints and they ignored them, etc. and then that is a disaster and shame on them

I give NBC a lot of credit for what they did and how quickly the acted - but it was only after a formal complaint was filed on Monday and then they did find some evidence that other things took place too - but they didn't investigate that until the formal complaint was made either.

Every situations is different and we don't know what they know and when, etc. Could Disney have done more? Sure, but he is gone for now and let's see what plays out. If 6 months he comes back and it is like nothing happened and nothing changed, then I will be disappointed. I truly do hop Disney does an investigation and finds out the truth - but all we have for now is what he said in the note and anonymous quotes in an article - if people were immediately terminated following anonymous quotes I think that sets a bad precedent as well

 

[erin1715]

I do think the details are important though - what exactly did they go to to HR with? Was it a formal complaint filing? and what did the Disney executives know? everything that is alleged to have happened or just that at parties he could drink a lot and then got too huggy?

Maybe they knew everything and there were formal complaints and they ignored them, etc. and then that is a disaster and shame on them

I give NBC a lot of credit for what they did and how quickly the acted - but it was only after a formal complaint was filed on Monday and then they did find some evidence that other things took place too - but they didn't investigate that until the formal complaint was made either.

Every situations is different and we don't know what they know and when, etc. Could Disney have done more? Sure, but he is gone for now and let's see what plays out. If 6 months he comes back and it is like nothing happened and nothing changed, then I will be disappointed. I truly do hop Disney does an investigation and finds out the truth - but all we have for now is what he said in the note and anonymous quotes in an article - if people were immediately terminated following anonymous quotes I think that sets a bad precedent as well

It says in the article that people are still afraid of naming themselves and going to HR because technically Lasseter is still employed. I'm not sure that we need a formal complaint to HR before anything is done, especially if enough women have corroborating stories. I do think details are important when it comes to what executives knew.

I do think it's quite frightening that a person can basically accuse someone of sexual harassment and ruin a person's career without much evidence. Like a PP said, I fear for the good men who may be accused of something they never did, but someone is out to ruin them for other reasons. This could absolutely happen to politicians.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I do think the details are important though - what exactly did they go to to HR with? Was it a formal complaint filing? and what did the Disney executives know? everything that is alleged to have happened or just that at parties he could drink a lot and then got too huggy?

Maybe they knew everything and there were formal complaints and they ignored them, etc. and then that is a disaster and shame on them

I give NBC a lot of credit for what they did and how quickly the acted - but it was only after a formal complaint was filed on Monday and then they did find some evidence that other things took place too - but they didn't investigate that until the formal complaint was made either.

Every situations is different and we don't know what they know and when, etc. Could Disney have done more? Sure, but he is gone for now and let's see what plays out. If 6 months he comes back and it is like nothing happened and nothing changed, then I will be disappointed. I truly do hop Disney does an investigation and finds out the truth - but all we have for now is what he said in the note and anonymous quotes in an article - if people were immediately terminated following anonymous quotes I think that sets a bad precedent as well

But he's not gone - every employee is still scared to speak up b/c he's still on the path to come back...It's now gotten embarrassing how much worse Disney is handling this vs every other employer. It's not like NBC had a replacement for Lauer lined up, but he was gone in under 48 hours...PERMANENTLY.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

But he's not gone - every employee is still scared to speak up b/c he's still on the path to come back...It's now gotten embarrassing how much worse Disney is handling this vs every other employer. It's not like NBC had a replacement for Lauer lined up, but he was gone in under 48 hours...PERMANENTLY.

I get that, and I give NBC credit for what they did and how fast - but we don't know what they found we don't know what Disney has done to investigate and either found or not found

Obviously he did thinks that were wrong - he wouldn't have gone on a sabbatical if is was just "hugging" - but you also can't just terminate someone on anonymous quotes. Now, if Disney had concrete evidence of serious malpractice and they aren't acting on it then that is a shame and would be embarrassing - I just think it is hard to compare what they are or aren't doing to others when you don't have all the facts in either case.

 

[Phicinfan]

I do think the details are important though - what exactly did they go to to HR with? Was it a formal complaint filing? and what did the Disney executives know? everything that is alleged to have happened or just that at parties he could drink a lot and then got too huggy?

Maybe they knew everything and there were formal complaints and they ignored them, etc. and then that is a disaster and shame on them

I give NBC a lot of credit for what they did and how quickly the acted - but it was only after a formal complaint was filed on Monday and then they did find some evidence that other things took place too - but they didn't investigate that until the formal complaint was made either.

Every situations is different and we don't know what they know and when, etc. Could Disney have done more? Sure, but he is gone for now and let's see what plays out. If 6 months he comes back and it is like nothing happened and nothing changed, then I will be disappointed. I truly do hop Disney does an investigation and finds out the truth - but all we have for now is what he said in the note and anonymous quotes in an article - if people were immediately terminated following anonymous quotes I think that sets a bad precedent as well

What choice did they have?? I don't know how many of you are in the large corporate world, but the global company I am part of cannot act until a formal complaint is filed, and action can be taken and investigation can be had. Any other action without a formal complaint leaves a company open to HUGE legal issues and wrongful firing action.

 

[Phicinfan]

I get that, and I give NBC credit for what they did and how fast - but we don't know what they found we don't know what Disney has done to investigate and either found or not found

Obviously he did thinks that were wrong - he wouldn't have gone on a sabbatical if is was just "hugging" - but you also can't just terminate someone on anonymous quotes. Now, if Disney had concrete evidence of serious malpractice and they aren't acting on it then that is a shame and would be embarrassing - I just think it is hard to compare what they are or aren't doing to others when you don't have all the facts in either case.

Pretty sure the article calls out that "hugging" was not the only issue, inappropriate touching and such are also quoted. That alone, should have cause an formal investigation IF and only IF a formal complaint was filed with HR.

 

[rteetz]

I get that, and I give NBC credit for what they did and how fast - but we don't know what they found we don't know what Disney has done to investigate and either found or not found

Obviously he did thinks that were wrong - he wouldn't have gone on a sabbatical if is was just "hugging" - but you also can't just terminate someone on anonymous quotes. Now, if Disney had concrete evidence of serious malpractice and they aren't acting on it then that is a shame and would be embarrassing - I just think it is hard to compare what they are or aren't doing to others when you don't have all the facts in either case.

I think the investigation is key. NBC clearly investigated and found something and was quick to make a change. Has Disney investigated? Are they currently? Will they? We don't know that and if they don't find anything does Lasseter come back?