Large Print Menus

[jcb]

I've been good in not nitpicking at legal points as of late but I was flabbergasted by DCL's response to Kevin's call about how a DCL passenger can obtain large print materials (menus and the personal navigators) and extra lighting in a cabin.

I can only assume that, when they told Kevin, "we'll get back to you," they were saying, "oh, cr*p, we have to call our lawyers."

Not surprisingly, the applicable ADA regulations give, as examples of an accommodation, providing "large print materials" or "other effective methods of making visually delivered materials available to individuals with visual impairment" is one "auxiliary aid[] and service[]'' a "public accommodation" (a technical word for what most of us call a "business") must provide.

Cruise ships are a "public accommodation". That was settled in 2005.

Now a public accommodation doesn't necessarily have to provide the requested accommodation but what they provide has to be "effective" (unless the accommodation would fundamentally alter "the nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations being offered").

This last is why I'm not surprised that DCL wanted to know the identity of the person who needs the accommodation. To provide an "effective" accommodation, DCL will at some point need to know exactly what is needed and that usually requires some type of interaction with the passenger involved. It isn't, however, usually an accommodation to say that there is a companion along who can read or help the sight limited person.

But for a company usually so effective in accommodating individuals with disabilities their response was just plain bizarre.

 

[exwdwcm]

I am as well. But then again, maybe not.....sometimes Disney's response doesn't surprise me at all.

I agree the navigators are way to small print for me too and I have fairly good vision (no glasses/contacts). The menus would be nice too- my mom had a hard time reading them and we usually ended up reading them to her a lot of the time. I think they could definitely do more in this area. There are a lot of vision impaired folks that are not completely blind but could use a little help to make their stay or trip more enjoyable.

 

[Justin Jett]

Large print menus would help me as well.

Jack my man......here is a legal question for ya:

Does the ADA apply to the Disney ships since they are registered in the Bahamas?

 

[jcb]

Does the ADA apply to the Disney ships since they are registered in the Bahamas?

Yes, that's what I meant by "settled" but I was pretty cryptic and until the U.S. Supreme Court settled it in 2005, the lower courts were divided on the issue. In 2005, however, the Court held that Norwegian Cruise Lines, despite being foreign flagged, pretty much had to comply with Title III of the ADA.

I say "pretty much" because the Court left the door open for cruise lines to argue that certain uniquely U.S. imposed requirements conflict with the ship's internal affairs and foreign regulation. This is a pretty hypertechnical issue, however, and odds are good that before there is a conflict of this nature, the cruise line would probably have other, better, arguments that the requested accommodation is unreasonable.

Think of it like this. Yvet, by rumor, is a party animal. If, during Pirate night, she wanted decks 9 and 10 of the Wonder lit up like the surface of the sun, the cruise ship would probably have a valid argument that this interferes with their internal affairs; but then this request wouldn't be a reasonable one under the ADA, either. Like so much else, it is a question of degree.

 

[Disneybridein2k3]

I have nothing to add, except I just wanted to say I you Jack! You rock!!!

 

[WaltD4Me]

I'm was really surprised by their response too. They do have a good track record with disability issues and this cannot be the first time anyone has ever asked them this. My dad has reduced vision and has a very hard time in low light, well really even normal indoor lighting, I do not know if it would have occured to me to ask for extra lighting for him, but it makes sense and I'm surprised it isn't available if needed/requested.

 

[Justin Jett]

Yes, that's what I meant by "settled" but I was pretty cryptic and until the U.S. Supreme Court settled it in 2005, the lower courts were divided on the issue. In 2005, however, the Court held that Norwegian Cruise Lines, despite being foreign flagged, pretty much had to comply with Title III of the ADA.

I say "pretty much" because the Court left the door open for cruise lines to argue that certain uniquely U.S. imposed requirements conflict with the ship's internal affairs and foreign regulation. This is a pretty hypertechnical issue, however, and odds are good that before there is a conflict of this nature, the cruise line would probably have other, better, arguments that the requested accommodation is unreasonable.

Think of it like this. Yvet, by rumor, is a party animal. If, during Pirate night, she wanted decks 9 and 10 of the Wonder lit up like the surface of the sun, the cruise ship would probably have a valid argument that this interferes with their internal affairs; but then this request wouldn't be a reasonable one under the ADA, either. Like so much else, it is a question of degree.

Jack is awesome!

The reason that I asked was that when I was in travel school. We were told that cruise ships under foreign registry were not subject to US laws.

I totally agree that it is a question of degree.

 

[Dale-Not-Chip]

I've always said that if a Cruise Ships full time birth is in the United States. The cruise starts and ends in the United States then it should have to sail under United States legal requirements. It should be under contract at the port to do so..

It's just a tax trick that they are registered elsewhere. Much like if we could get away with having a foreign country licence on our cars.

 

[Yvet]

Yvet, by rumor, is a party animal.

Hmmm don't believe all the rumors you hear, read or see.......

It's just nuts that Disney such a good company in doing everything for people handicapped or not, that this company doesn't provide large print menus and navigators.

The comment about bringing reading glasses is just plain rude, then you just make comments about things you don't know what you are talking about.

And the comment about let somebody else read the menu for her is really not okay.
With all the help from all the extra's there are in life for VI people like large font, magnifiers and such materials i can do stuff alone.
Those materials make me independent, i can still do stuff by myself but i need those extra's. When you just say: "let somebody read the menu to her" that is just not right.....

With these comments i'm suprised that there wasn't a comment like: "Why travel just stay home where you know your way".......


I'm very very very curious if they going to call back to Kevin and what the outcome is going to be.....

 

[winotracy]

Hmmm don't believe all the rumors you hear, read or see.......

It's just nuts that Disney such a good company in doing everything for people handicapped or not, that this company doesn't provide large print menus and navigators.

The comment about bringing reading glasses is just plain rude, then you just make comments about things you don't know what you are talking about.

And the comment about let somebody else read the menu for her is really not okay.
With all the help from all the extra's there are in life for VI people like large font, magnifiers and such materials i can do stuff alone.
Those materials make me independent, i can still do stuff by myself but i need those extra's. When you just say: "let somebody read the menu to her" that is just not right.....

With these comments i'm suprised that there wasn't a comment like: "Why travel just stay home where you know your way".......


I'm very very very curious if they going to call back to Kevin and what the outcome is going to be.....

Yvette, did you get my email yesterday? I got some different answers from Disney. Here's what I found out:

Large print menus have been available in the past and may be available on some sailings, but DCL prefers to have the server assist the guest with this. This would be done the same way that they handle allergies, where the server or head server will go over the menu with the guest to find out what they may want to have for dinner. This would not be another guest reading the menu to them, it would be the server “discussing” the menu with the guest.

Front row seating in the theater is available approximately 30 minutes prior to the shows. The guest just needs to let one of the cast member attendants know they need to sit up front due to low vision and they will be escorted to the front row.

Guests can request a larger font Navigator from Guest Services. There are a number of font options for the Navigators. This must be done onboard.

There was no specific information about lighting but a request can be made for an extra lamp in the room.

 

[Yvet]

Hi Tracy,
I didn't saw the email until just after my post.
Then while you where responding here i was sending you an email back....

Thanks thanks thanks you are an awesome TA!!!!!!!

I'm glad that it lookes like that there are more things possible then they told Kevin and then what they told me in an email and by phone.
About reading the menu to me, it is a way but it feels better and more independent to have it in large print just so i can work the menu out myself.
I do understand the standpoint of DCL but independent is the key word here.

Tracy again thanks and you are awesome!!!!

 

[tickledtink33]

Thank you so much Tracy for the information. Being legally blind myself I understand how Yvette feels when it comes to being independent. I am lucky that I can usually read menus close up okay but I do carry a 10x magnifyer with me just in case. I would find having to wait for the server to discuss the menu with me very frustrating. I like to take my time and look over the menu and ponder which dishes I want to try. Larger font Navigators will be a big help. Certain sections are very tiny. I always need my magnifyer for these. Next time I'm onboard I will have to see what their larger font Navigators look like and if they are helpful. I travel a LOT and more often than not I travel alone. I like to be as independent as possible but sometimes it just isn't possible and I need to ask for assistance. I have encountered some very helpful people but I have had some unpleasant experiences both on and off Disney. More than once I have had someone ask me where my companion or travel party is. When I say that I'm traveling solo they look at me like I have lost my mind.

What do you mean your traveling alone? You can't do that.

Say what! I certainly can, and have, and will again thank you very much.

If someone in charge at DCL had a visually impaired and or blind family member and understood the challenges they face I guarantee there would be large font and braille menus available in the dining rooms. I think it is hard for some folks without special challenges to understand what it is like for those who have them. They have their independence and don't give a second thought as to what it would be like if that independence were taken away.

MY biggest challenge in the parks are the overhead menus at the quick service locations. Can't see em at all. I always had to ask the cast members for assistance. Now I have my trusty Disney Dining app on my iphone. I love it and it is kept very updated. I can look at the menu on my phone and see every menu item and order on my own without any assistance. It's awesome. A new level of independence. It's a very small thing but makes a huge difference in how I feel.

Love you Yvette and hope everything goes smoothly and you and Emiel have a great time on your upcoming transAtlantic Disney cruise.

 

[Justin Jett]

The comment about bringing reading glasses is just plain rude,

Maybe Kevin was talking to DCL's branch office in Paris?

Not trying to make light of the subject matter, as it is very serious to me as well. I just could not resist a retort about Paris.

 

[Yvet]

Maybe Kevin was talking to DCL's branch office in Paris?

 

[FireDancer]

I always thought that the only regulations you had to worry about were the regulations of your home port or port of registration. I never even thought the ships had to abide by U.S. regulations since they weren't registered U.S. ships.

You really do learn new things on the DIS.

 

[Justin Jett]

Hmmm don't believe all the rumors you hear, read or see.......

It's just nuts that Disney such a good company in doing everything for people handicapped or not, that this company doesn't provide large print menus and navigators.

The comment about bringing reading glasses is just plain rude, then you just make comments about things you don't know what you are talking about.

And the comment about let somebody else read the menu for her is really not okay.
With all the help from all the extra's there are in life for VI people like large font, magnifiers and such materials i can do stuff alone.
Those materials make me independent, i can still do stuff by myself but i need those extra's. When you just say: "let somebody read the menu to her" that is just not right.....

With these comments i'm suprised that there wasn't a comment like: "Why travel just stay home where you know your way".......


I'm very very very curious if they going to call back to Kevin and what the outcome is going to be.....

DOT 117-10
Thursday, June 17, 2010
Contact: Bill Mosley
Tel.: (202) 366-4570

New DOT Rule Extends Disability Protections to Passenger Ships and Boats

Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood today announced the first federal rule to specifically provide Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) protections to people with disabilities who travel on boats and ships. The action comes as the 20th anniversary of the ADA approaches on July 26.

“This Administration is committed to protecting the rights of passengers with disabilities in all modes of transportation,” said Secretary LaHood. “This rule will ensure fair treatment for people with disabilities who travel by ship or boat.”

The rule applies to two categories of vessels: vessels operated by public entities, such as public ferry systems, and vessels operated by private entities primarily engaged in the business of transporting people, such as cruise ships.

The rule will ensure that vessel operators’ policies do not discriminate against passengers with disabilities. Under the rule, vessel operators cannot charge extra for accessibility-related services to passengers, cannot require passengers to furnish their own attendants, and cannot deny access to passengers based on disability. Vessel operators will have to provide information to passengers about the accessibility of their facilities and services and make a knowledgeable person available to resolve accessibility concerns.

This rule does not establish physical accessibility standards for new construction or alteration of vessels. The Access Board, an independent agency, is currently developing proposed accessibility guidelines that the Department would adopt in a subsequent rulemaking.

Department of Justice (DOJ) regulations will cover a third category of vessels not covered by DOT’s rules – those operated by private entities not primarily engaged in the business of transporting people, such as fishing charters and dinner cruise boats.

The new rule will become effective 120 days after it is published. There will be a 90-day comment period concerning three issues: whether vessel operators should be required to allow passengers with disabilities to bring emotional support animals on board, requirements operators must follow concerning the use of mobility aids, and the relationship of DOT and DOJ disability rules.

The rule is available on the Internet at www.regulations.gov, docket DOT-OST-2007-26829.

 

[jcb]

Cool - thanks for the notice, Skip. Here is a link where you can download the rule: http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#documentDetail?R=0900006480b03822

Click on the pdf icon to see the rule. It will be officially published in a few days. That document will be searchable.

 

[mdvlprof]

MY biggest challenge in the parks are the overhead menus at the quick service locations. Can't see em at all.

Ooh. Hadn't thought of that.

I have learned to deal with my vertical diplopia when looking down or looking ahead. When looking up, it's so bad I cannot focus. (Eye drs can't do anything since it's variable.)

 

[jcb]

The rules Skip mentioned a couple of weeks ago have been officially published (as of July 6, 2010). Here are links to the text version and the pdf version.

The rules will take effect November 3, 2010.