Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis found in contempt, going to jail

[TLSnell1981]

There is a problem that you *see* things as "Christian bashing" when they are not. The people who make this a "war on Christians" or "Christian bashing" are missing the point.

Maybe, if not for comments, such as...

But those of us who don't believe in your imaginary friend in the sky don't care about "His" supposed definition of anything. We care about the legal definitions.

 

[Wishing on a star]

True, there are those who will state that they are not christian, do not believe in christianity, and be 'christian bashers'.
That is a given.

So what!!!

Again, that is just a given, which is completely and totally NOT RELEVANT.
Just as any possible death threats.

None of these things are relevant to this case.

And, as I mentioned once before, just stating the obvious, any true religious comments (pro any religion OR bashing any religion) are not supposed to be allowed here on the DIS. (which BTW does not infringe on my civil rights)

Teresa Pitman is free to believe, or not believe, as she wishes.
She is free to state that 'legal' definitions (and I will add civil rights) are what matters.
And I respect that.
But she is not doing herself any favors or gaining any respect from me when she openly 'christian bashes'.

Yes, the bashers are there, on ALL sides.
And contrary to what was posted in some previous comments, they do have a right to their feelings and beliefs. They do have a right to freedom of speech.
I am just saying that here, on the DIS, is not supposed to be a place for it.

Like I said before... this clerk is free to walk outside of that government office, protest, wave 10 foot signs, and sing Kum Bay Yah... Have at it.

Same goes for those who do not agree with Christianity.
They can gather outside of churches and protest, wave 10 foot signs, and sing Imagine... Have at it.

But just as the DIS is a privately operated board where overt religion and politics are not allowed, A government office is a place where this kind of religious activism is not allowed.

 

[sam_gordon]

Well, if the elected representatives are doing their jobs, and fulfilling their oaths to uphold the law, then it should take one vote, and the vote should be unanimous. Of course, I don't doubt for a second your assessment that this would never happen. But doesn't that speak to the bigger problem? A single vote is all it should take, and as you point out, that would cost $65k. The state has probably already incurred more than that in extra security forces to oversee the protests, for the court hearings, and for her incarceration.

It's not a single vote though. Look up impeachment process... Kentucky follows the same policy as the federal government. The House has to vote to impeach, then the Senate has to hold a trial. There is no way this is a one day issue.

They already gave her that option, over and over again and it doesn't seem likely that it will end this way.

If you're going to quote me, please use my entire thought, not just a single phrase. I was asked what *I*, as a resident of Kentucky think should happen. I was giving my opinion.

 

[sam_gordon]

None of these things are relevant to this case.

And, as I mentioned once before, just stating the obvious, any true religious comments (pro any religion OR bashing any religion) are not supposed to be allowed here on the DIS.

I am just saying that here, on the DIS, is not supposed to be a place for it.

It REALLY sounds like you're trying to be a moderator in telling people what they can and can't post.

Just so you know, the price of tea in China is ¥ 3.01. It's not relevant to this thread at all, but I'm allowed to post it.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Of course you are allowed...
I do, however, much prefer Matcha Tea, which I believe is from Japan... It is far more expensive!!!

Just a note... again, I said I was stating the obvious.
Others have said, for example, that others don't have the 'right' to question religious beliefs.
And, I think that the DIS policy on politics and religion are self explanatory.

I am not "REALLY" (all caps, to quote you) moderating anything....
Just stating the obvious, people.
Just stating the obvious.

 

[robinb]

Maybe, if not for comments, such as...

... and this ...

Would you rather her remain a heathen all her life?

... bashes everyone else .

I do think that there is some Christian bashing out on the interwebs but here on the DIS we have kept things on a pretty even keel because if the board restrictions. The thread *isn't* about Christianity. It's about a county clerk shirking her job.

 

[GaryDis]

I do, however, much prefer Matcha Tea, which I believe is from Japan... It is far more expensive!!!

Upton Tea shows their organic Kakegawa Matcha (which you correctly state is from Japan) at $22 for 30g, or 73 cents/g. Their most expensive Chinese green tea (ignoring the samplers) is their Pre-Chingming Pi Lo Chun at $36 for 40g, or 90 cents/g, making the Chinese tea about 22% more expensive, though there are also much cheaper Chinese teas. Obviously other vendors may have other prices and other teas.

Of course, no one really cares about this, least of all me. (I prefer black teas). But as long as the subject came up, I thought it worth an entertaining digression. Better than repeating the same arguments multiple times, which is where I think this thread is heading.

 

[TLSnell1981]

True, there are those who will state that they are not christian, do not believe in christianity, and be 'christian bashers'.
That is a given.

So what!!!

Besides the fact, it gets really old, after a while? Or, that it's disrespectful and possibly offensive to some?

... and this ...



... bashes everyone else .

I do think that there is some Christian bashing out on the interwebs but here on the DIS we have kept things on a pretty even keel because if the board restrictions. The thread *isn't* about Christianity. It's about a county clerk shirking her job.

It's disrespectful on both sides. The comments are rude and/or hurtful. Tit for tat doesn't make it better or right. JMO

 

[POOHsie]

I read today that Miss Davis' attorney wanted to talk compromise with the Governor of KY. Basically the proposal is to have designated County clerks who would handle same-sex marriage licenses, so that other County clerks who are opposed could have a legal carve-out for non-compliance.

But I think Americans and American Law are too far along for that to be allowed. It would be the same as separate-but-equal schools for whites/blacks. Heck, even at WDW we continue, today, to read posts from folks who want people with mobility equipment to have separate buses to take them to/from the parks. Because loading "them" on regular buses slows down the process. That sounds nice for folks who aren't handicapped, or families who aren't partial to black people -- but not so good for the people affected.

In the same way, a compromise of separate-but-equal access to same-sex marriage licenses would force aggrieved couples to search for which County to go to, and the added burden of travel time and expense that other couples aren't subject to. Not to mention, local folks in the Counties which allowed same-sex marriage licenses might harass these couples when they arrived in town, because they were winnowed out for "special handling." No, I don't think we're going back to that form of "keeping different people apart" again b/c the majority always wins and the minority population always loses.

 

[PlutoPony]

Saw a brief blurb today about a flight attendant for Express Jet who has been suspended for refusing to serve alcohol because it's against her religion. She converted to Islam after taking the job and now has a problem fulfilling her duties. Initially she was able to work it out with other FA's so they did all the alcohol duties but another FA recently filed a complaint about her not doing all aspects of her job. The suspended FA is claiming she should not have to choose between her job and her religion.

I think you will see more of these type claims

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

So now there is a problem if I don't like Christian bashing?

Don't lump all Christians together.

On the bolded we absolutely agree.

I, for example, as a devout Christian, do not want to be lumped in with you and those like you who see disagreement with bigotry and hypocrisy as "Christian bashing" as instead I see it for what it is--disagreeing with bigotry and hypocrisy. Your tendency to be aggrieved by phantom assaults on your faith tradition does nothing to advance dialogue or progress towards a common ground.

On that same note, please remember that you do not speak for all (or most, or even a plurality of) Christians, either. I see many of your opinions as a direct assault on my Christian faith values and if you want people to stop, you should also stop espousing your opinions which are, quite frankly, anathema to my Christian values.

 

[Kimberlyann11]

Besides the fact, it gets really old, after a while? Or, that it's disrespectful and possibly offensive to some?

It's disrespectful on both sides. The comments are rude and/or hurtful. Tit for tat doesn't make it better or right. JMO

I don't know that someone failing to believe the same thing you do qualifies as "bashing".

This kind of attitude is why we can't have nice things here on the Dis.

 

[Bec3b1g]

I read today that Miss Davis' attorney wanted to talk compromise with the Governor of KY. Basically the proposal is to have designated County clerks who would handle same-sex marriage licenses, so that other County clerks who are opposed could have a legal carve-out for non-compliance.

I would surely hope that the Governor would say no to treating her religious beliefs as some sort of special class protected status. Can you imagine if every person requested job accommodations because they had a personal agenda that differed from state and federal laws? That would cause anarchy.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

Hm. I was going to write that I didn't mean to be "Christian bashing" but I re-read what I wrote and I see how my frustration came through in a not very nice way. I was frustrated because people had presented a couple of definitions of marriage, and one poster kept repeating that the only thing important to her was "His" definition of marriage, in what seemed to me to be a rather smug way. I can see that for people who believe in a god, the phrase "your imaginary friend in the sky" was kind of insulting. I apologize if I have offended people (and I would say that it was not specifically Christian-bashing, but more critical of anyone who believes in a god or, I suppose, multiple gods).

I find it hard when we are discussing an issue (in real life as well as on the boards) and someone's response is "but God says..." What is the polite way to say "I don't believe in your god and I don't really care what you think he/she would say on this topic?"

 

[TLSnell1981]

Hm. I was going to write that I didn't mean to be "Christian bashing" but I re-read what I wrote and I see how my frustration came through in a not very nice way. I was frustrated because people had presented a couple of definitions of marriage, and one poster kept repeating that the only thing important to her was "His" definition of marriage, in what seemed to me to be a rather smug way. I can see that for people who believe in a god, the phrase "your imaginary friend in the sky" was kind of insulting. I apologize if I have offended people (and I would say that it was not specifically Christian-bashing, but more critical of anyone who believes in a god or, I suppose, multiple gods).

I find it hard when we are discussing an issue (in real life as well as on the boards) and someone's response is "but God says..." What is the polite way to say "I don't believe in your god and I don't really care what you think he/she would say on this topic?"

Thank you. It's easy for a comment to come out, not exactly, as it was intended. I was only a little surprised, but disappointed, over the number of "likes" your post received.

What's the polite and probably safest way? Either, ignore it or simply state, "I disagree"

 

[ChrisFL]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-em...l?ir=Australia

1. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) I am not allowed to go to a religious service of my own choosing.
B) Others are allowed to go to religious services of their own choosing.

2. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) I am not allowed to marry the person I love legally, even though my religious community blesses my marriage.
B) Some states refuse to enforce my own particular religious beliefs on marriage on those two guys in line down at the courthouse.

3. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) I am being forced to use birth control.
B) I am unable to force others to not use birth control.

4. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) I am not allowed to pray privately.
B) I am not allowed to force others to pray the prayers of my faith publicly.

5. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) Being a member of my faith means that I can be bullied without legal recourse.
B) I am no longer allowed to use my faith to bully gay kids with impunity.

6. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) I am not allowed to purchase, read or possess religious books or material.
B) Others are allowed to have access books, movies and websites that I do not like.

7. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) My religious group is not allowed equal protection under the establishment clause.
B) My religious group is not allowed to use public funds, buildings and resources as we would like, for whatever purposes we might like.

8. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) Another religious group has been declared the official faith of my country.
B) My own religious group is not given status as the official faith of my country.

9. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) My religious community is not allowed to build a house of worship in my community.
B) A religious community I do not like wants to build a house of worship in my community.

10. My religious liberty is at risk because:

A) I am not allowed to teach my children the creation stories of our faith at home.
B) Public school science classes are teaching science.

 

[Nayan]

I read today that Miss Davis' attorney wanted to talk compromise with the Governor of KY. Basically the proposal is to have designated County clerks who would handle same-sex marriage licenses, so that other County clerks who are opposed could have a legal carve-out for non-compliance.

They already HAVE THAT!! That was one of her options that the Gov't. endorses, that she could step aside and allow the other clerks to issue licenses. She CHOSE NOT to do that, instead ordering the entire office to not hand out licenses to anyone. Argh, the more I read about this stupid broad the madder I get.

 

[gwynne]

I continue to be shocked/amazed at the numbers of "prominent " folks flocking to Kentucky. I guess it's become perfectly ethical to grab a paycheck but not do an honest day's work to some. Interesting.

 

[castleview]

No compromise. Do your job or quit. I feel for her since she seems to be cracking and already has a few screws lose. But leaving jail likely isn't an option because her pastor, lawyer, Mike Huckabee etc. are depending on her to make their point while they remain free.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Considering what get's done in this world on a daily basis in the name of religion, this woman and her plight is a tiny spec, all things considered. An annoying little gnat when you look at the bigger picture. I'll never understand it, but here we are.