Just saw Harry Potter 3 and have a major problem with one part.

[Maleficent13]

Can I just say, this thread made my head hurt.

 

[Elwood Blues]

One of my favorite time travel movies was The Final Countdown With Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen. The Aircraft carrier Nimitx travels back in time to the day before the attack on Pearl Harbor. The movie deals with the rights and wrongs of whether or not the Nimitz should join the fight.

I have that movie in my DVD collection but haven't watched it yet. I don't think I've seen it before. But there was another one involving a navy ship. I think it was called "The Philadelphia Experiment" That's the one where the some men were stuck halfway in the deck of the ship. Creepy.

 

[Elwood Blues]

I get the feeling that even though they time travelled after all the events, the things that they change merge into one universal time. All the time merges into one. Think of it as layers. They didn't change things that had already happened.. The chop the kids heard during Buckbeak execution was not Buckbeak being executed. It was the executor chopping a pumpkin. Timetravel Harry and Hermione had already saved him, while the kids were running up the hill. See how I am saying it all merges into the same time? Same thing when TimeTravel Harry and Hermione saved Sirius. He hadn't had his soul sucked out... yet. So when they saved him, they didn't change the past, they changed.. the future. Does that make sense? LOL

No, not really. I don't want to appear argumentative but I really enjoy a logical discussion like this!!

If they didn't have to meddle with the past to change the future, why did they go back in time?

If during the first presentation of the events shown to us at Hagred's hut the Buckbeak was saved and it was a pumpkin that was being "executed", IMO, it means that Harry and Hermione were there at during the first presentation of those events.

 

[gometros]

I have that movie in my DVD collection but haven't watched it yet. I don't think I've seen it before. But there was another one involving a navy ship. I think it was called "The Philadelphia Experiment" That's the one where the some men were stuck halfway in the deck of the ship. Creepy.

I saw that too. It's just the opposite of Final Countdown in that two sailors from 1943 are sent 40 years into the future.

Watch Final Coundown as soon as you can. The concept will drive you crazy, because on one hand you want to agree with Martin Sheen that it's their obligation to help out, there's a domino effect to the time line if we had stopped the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. We probably would have still declared war and gotten involved in WWII, but our Pacific fleet would still be intact and the tide of the war in the Pacific would have been drasticly altered. It could have led to a quicker defeat of the Japanese, allowing us to focus more of our efforts on the European front. Plus an earlier defeat of Japan may have meant no need to use the bomb.

 

[gometros]

Yes, I get the theory that all time will merge into one. SORT-OF...

I am recalling "Star Trek, Next Generation" when Worf was the only one on board the Enterprise who was not a time traveller or frankly I guess we can call it "dimensions", really. The layers you speak of. He kept bouncing between realities. Prior to the merging there is an infinite set of "possibilites or outcomes".

Want to get more of a headache? Remember the Star Trek: TNG episode Yesterday's Enterprise, where Tasha Yar, alive in a an alternate reality, goes back to help the Klingons fight Romulans at Kitamar on the Enterprise, NCC 1701- C? She wasn't supposed to be alive and knowing from Guinan that the real Tasha died a meaningless death, she volunteers to go back with the ENterprise C before the timeline corrects itself. She ends up being captured and agrees to become a consort to a Romulan and her daughter, Sela comes back to haunt Picard and crew.

 

[babar]

I just had to say I got in an argument over this exact subject this weekend!!! And I asked the same question you did!!

 

[Imzadi]

Want to get more of a headache? Remember the Star Trek: TNG episode Yesterday's Enterprise, where Tasha Yar...

Ah, but what about the Star Trek: TNG episode (don't know the name) where the bridge crew is playing poker, while the Enterprise gets sucked into a temporal anomaly, where the Enterprise meets up with another space ship caught in that anomaly, and the Enterprise ends up getting blown up. Only a time loop happens and they keep playing poker (for like 23 days) and keep getting blown up, until they have played the same game of poker so many times, that they start to "remember" that they've already played a game, that to them, hadn't happened yet. But it is by that "remembering" and finally implanting a code into Lt. Data that they are actually able to change events & the timeline and get themselves out of the loop.

 

[gometros]

Ah, but what about the Star Trek: TNG episode (don't know the name) where the bridge crew is playing poker, while the Enterprise gets sucked into a temporal anomaly, where the Enterprise meets up with another space ship caught in that anomaly, and the Enterprise ends up getting blown up. Only a time loop happens and they keep playing poker (for like 23 days) and keep getting blown up, until they have played the same game of poker so many times, that they start to "remember" that they've already played a game, that to them, hadn't happened yet. But it is by that "remembering" and finally implanting a code into Lt. Data that they are actually able to change events & the timeline and get themselves out of the loop.

Of course, Cause and Effect, same idea as was the basis for the movie Ground Hog Day. Not time travel, per se, but a bad case of deja vu.

Of course, Cause and Effect, same idea as was the basis for the movie Ground Hog Day. Not time travel, per se, but a bad case of deja vu.

Of course, Cause and Effect, same idea as was the basis for the movie Ground Hog Day. Not time travel, per se, but a bad case of deja vu.

Of course, Cause and Effect, same idea as was the basis for the movie Ground Hog Day. Not time travel, per se, but a bad case of deja vu.

Of course, Cause and Effect, same idea as was the basis for the movie Ground Hog Day. Not time travel, per se, but a bad case of deja vu.

Of course, Cause and Effect, same idea as was the basis for the movie Ground Hog Day. Not time travel, per se, but a bad case of deja vu.

Of course, Cause and Effect, same idea as was the basis for the movie Ground Hog Day. Not time travel, per se, but a bad case of deja vu.

Of course, Cause and Effect, same idea as was the basis for the movie Ground Hog Day. Not time travel, per se, but a bad case of deja vu.

 

[Maleficent909TL]

I don't know if anyone's proposed this explaination, because I didn't want to get a major headache reading all of the confusing theories, but I believe that in time travel, your body exists in multiple folds of time. Therefore, Hermione wouldn't have known she threw the rock, and she just remembered it thrown, and realized she threw it. What I mean is, that if time travel really does exist (and for the discussion, it does), you're life is, possibly, repeating something over and over again, at different points in the universe, making it possible to travel backwards in time. So if, for example, someone wanted to go back to the day Harry was born, there would have to be some time, some where, when Harry was being born. And there would also have to be the whole time he was growing up, so there would be a future to affect, and there would have to be the present, so there was somewhere that you're coming from. And keep in mind, this is all in the movie, not the book, which means that it is less thought-out, because you have to be ready for these questions as an author, and she didn't metion any of it in the book (I just finished reading it for the 4th time). Hermione and Harry couldn't interfere with the past, as throwing the rock would have.

 

[Daxx]

Travelling back in time will never cease to confuse me.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I agree that the time travelers memories would be linear but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

But disagree that time travel was still in their future. If that's the case, who threw the rocks, howled like a wolf and used the spell to ward off the Dementors?

It's cyclical. Later on she comes back and picks back up where she left off (while that H & H are heading back in time). So it is never her same version that is going back in time. (i.e.--she's not in two places at once).

The spot where they time travel back to--requires the time travelers to toss the pebble. Because of the looping--that history is permanent....though it does require the time traveler to realize that they do need to do something.

Time travel is fake--so one must assume that in the present, things are as they should be.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

She asked "why aren't we leaving"? If they hadn't gone back in time before how did she know to throw the rock and how did they end up at the other side of the lake to save Harry and Sirius the first time around? If Hermione remembered that she time traveled, why didn't Harry? Actually, neither one one them remembered that they went back to save Sirius and the bird/horse creature.

They were on teh receiving end before--the time travelers had already been at that point...they remembered that something had happened....and realized that they were the ones that had to do it. Since Hermione has time traveled before--it would dawn on her that this is the case. Harry--it was his first time traveling, so he wouldn't have been as quick necessarily to figure it out.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Well... This still has me confused.

So how many times do you believe they "looped"?

IMO, it had to have been at least twice because the sequence of events are different between the first and the second.

What I'm getting at is the timeline as first presented in the movie appears to have been manipulated by someone from the future and then manipulated a second time which changed the outcome again because we now know who threw the rock and saved Harry and Sirius. I believe that the first timeline as presented in the movie is not the original timeline. Otherwise, they would have been caught in Hagred's hut and Harry and Sirius wouldn't have been saved.

Inifinitely.

At some point, Hermione would have continued into the future--went back and fixed the past...and then caused the looping affect when Harry came with her the 2nd go round and beyond. For the future to stay constistent, that time travel loop would be a permanent part of their history.

And a ala "back to the future"--it can be assumed that at any given point the history changes....the future would disappear--but since Hermione is the little time traveler, one can assume that she will figure it out each and every time.

We just didn't get to see the first rendition of the history.