Jim Hill asks for Patience on DCA

[d-r]

FWIW, the spinning ride that is "like dumbo" is not Francis the ladybug. There is a Flik's Flyer that is supposed to be Flik's invention that is most like dumbo. The seats hang down from the look of the pictures. Francis the lady bug is more like the teacups or the kelp cups in Tokyo's mermaid. Personally, I'm more amazed that they actually put in bumper cars than I am that there is another dumbo or tea party clone, but ymmv.

AV, I read your description of Dumbo, and I have to guess that you must like Aladdin's flying carpets, because the description of Dumbo would work for those as well (but it sure doesn't work for triceratop spin or whatever it is called).

 

[KNWVIKING]

Threads like this seem to meandor from topic-to-topic and sometimes one forgets what the original subject was all about. I'm not going to comment on "Flik" because I haven't seen. But I will comment on a couple of the statements that were made:

AK not being a full day park: If you look at AK in the commando/ride sense,then you are right. But IMO, AK is not about rides. DW and I love to wonder the trails,look at the animals. You can spend an hour just admiring the design of the "Tree". It does have it's share of great shows. It has a handfull of great rides. Is there room for additions-absolutely, (we just returned from DL, the Indy ride would go great in India section of AK,who cares if CDtoE is similar), but it isn't the disaster it's made out to be.

DCA: After all I had read about it here, I was expecting a county fair. After seeing it, I'll give it a 6.5 on a 1-10 scale. "Soarin'" is awesome. I'd like to see Epcot get a version,flying over countries or something. DCA has 5-6 E-rides with ToT under construction.They are revamping SSL. The Hyperion supposedly has a great show coming to replace Blast. I would agree it probably doesn't rate the same price as a DL one day pass, but I would be interested to know how many one day-one park passes are ever sold. Seems like AP's and Hopper's are the norm.

Universal/IOA : I was at US in '95. It was less then a one day park and even more-so now with the addition of IOA. IOA in itself is not a whole day park. Two days is more then enough to do both parks and see City Walk also.

 

[HB2K]

If you look at AK in the commando/ride sense,then you are right. But IMO, AK is not about rides. DW and I love to wonder the trails,look at the animals.

If you like a zoo, great....but I'm not paying $50 / day for a zoo. No matter how many times Disney tells me that I'm wrong and they're right....Animal Kingdom is a glorified zoo.

DCA has 5-6 E-rides with ToT under construction

How many of em are re-treads from Florida?

IOA in itself is not a whole day park

That is your opinion, but I'm here to tell you we spent all day at IOA and could EASILY have spent another doing our favorite rides, exploring the nooks & crannies, etc. How much of a whole day park would it be if Disney made it?

I was at US in '95. It was less then a one day park and even more-so now with the addition of IOA.

While US is far from my favorite park, they are making strides to restore it....Shrek, Jimmy Neutron, the proposed mummy coaster, MIB, etc. At least US is investing money (although with the changes I'm hoping Disney starts spending as well) in their parks...

 

[Another Voice]

‘Mermaid’ – it comes down to a question of scale. The entire area is viewed as an attraction, each ride and show is just a part of story. The children’s rides combined create the ‘Under the Sea’ section. Just as there are different gags within that scene from the movie (“the carp play da’ harp, the lute play the flute…”), each of the rides provide just a single “note” in creating the picture. Each individual attraction does not have to tell the complete story; they are just one of the scenes.

Now the same thing could have happened in Flik’s, but with out a reference to a broader story, each attraction much work harder to communicate a story. That’s the same situation as with Fantasyland – the theme is merely the background. Think about movie genres – Frontierland is for westerns, Tomorrowland for science fiction, Fantasyland for Disney fairy tales. The background doesn’t tell the story; it simply provides a setting so that flying elephants, talking stuffed bears, evil witches with apples, and so forth are “believable”. So ‘Dumbo’, against this background, was left to tell its complete story.

Back to Flik’s – the place is stuck in the middle. It has a background (a bug’s carnival) but no overall story like the ‘Mermaid’s Kingdom’. The individual rides are too small to tell their own stories like all the individual attractions in Fantasyland. So what we end up with are four well decorated carnival rides – but what we’re missing is the “Disney magic” of using story to combine and enhance the experience.

And that’s in general what’s wrong with California Adventure. Disneyland was created by filmmakers who knew how to structure and organize and present scenes so that the whole becomes greater than its parts. They turned an amusement park from just a collection of rides and souvenir stands into something more.

California Adventure, however, really does come off as nothing more than a collection of rides and merchandise opportunities. Most people won’t be able to explain what’s missing; they simple pass it off as “feeling different than Disneyland”. It’s not the number of rides that people feel is wrong, it’s the impact of that’s off.

That’s why additions like Flik’s and the ‘Kmart Tower of Terror’ aren’t going to improve DCA’s financial performance no matter how much patience we give Mr. Hill. The park isn’t missing a critical mass of rides - the park is missing the spark of showmanship people have come to expect from Disney (and what separates Disney from Six Flags). It’s quality not quantity.

As for ‘Aladdin’, yes it follows the ‘Dumbo’ model exactly. As an individual attraction I don’t have a problem with it. My only concern is a nagging question of “this is the best they could come up with?” You would think that after fifty years and umpteen billion dollars later they might have done something more than copy a ride that was Walt’s back-up plan half a century ago. It’s not the ride that I question, it’s the people behind it that worry me.

 

[DisneyKidds]

The entire area is viewed as an attraction, each ride and show is just a part of story. The children’s rides combined create the ‘Under the Sea’ section. Just as there are different gags within that scene from the movie (“the carp play da’ harp, the lute play the flute…”), each of the rides provide just a single “note” in creating the picture. Each individual attraction does not have to tell the complete story; they are just one of the scenes.

Hmmm.........Since someone opened the top on the whole 'AK, half day, I like' can of worms, I submit that if you change a few words in this quote you could be defending the AK. You see, it is the AK concept that many people have not embraced and cannot see. I'm glad, or I hope, they get the concept better over at TDS. Hopefully Flicks can be as successful, but from what AV describes it may not have the goods that the Mermaid area at TDS has.

 

[KNWVIKING]

How many Florida E-rides are DL retreads ? Seems all e-rides are a customized theme of a spinner,coaster,3d effect,etc. A good ride is a good ride regardless if it's a retread.

IOA; Yes it is my opionion it's not a full day park. If memory serves me it consisted of three coasters-two of which are identically but opposite.The Dr Doom ride,which was a joke. A poorly themed log flume that uses water cannons at the end on the drop to soak you. There was an Atlantis type ride that had potential,but was being revamped the last time we were there. The cat in the hat area-not an e-ride by any stretch. I'm sure there is more but I think these are most of the hi-lites. Does this list add up to a full day ? To DW and I, absolutely not.

AK: I agree,it's a zoo. But I think it's a great zoo. A zoo that school children should love to take field trips too because it's educational as well as fun. My two sons- 19 & 22- wouldn't appreciate it the way my DW and I do because they are at the "thrill me" stage. At present,Disney doesn't have a thrill park,maybe that'll be the 5th gate.

 

[Bob O]

AK isnt a full day park, and while it is my opinion, it is also the opinion of most park goers as the park has the shortest hours and in the late afternoon the park is half empty so the guests by their actions are showing it is a half day park. As for Zoo's there are too few animals/variety of species to have AK even remotely be considered a zoo!!
And US had alot more to do at the park than MGM at its opening and was a park with a whole days worth of activites from day one and thesame w/IOA. If they had been working the wdw model IOA wouldnt have had Spiderman or DD when the park opened but would have added those a decade later. And with US they have taken something disney has done and improved upon it, they added T23D which outdoes any disney 3d attraction, MIB was built brand new from the ground up and not cheaply by using a old ride mechanism and BTTF took the simulator ride and moved it up several notches in making it a excellant attraction while disney still has the dated Star Tours becauae they are too cheap to replace it!! And with USF upcoming attraction they are still making their parks better while wdw is content to rest on their laurels!!

 

[fabdisbabe]

Originally posted by thedscoop
...that I did not hack into Jim's site and write major portions of that article.

I further swear that I have neither paid Jim nor his editorial staff any compensation for this article.

Hey, man, where's my five bucks? This guy owes me money!

Michelle

 

[KNWVIKING]

Oh yeah, they kicked BTTF up a few notches... All they did was make it so herky-jerky that it is a painfull ride. It's the exact same movie simulation they have shown from day one,they simply boosted the hydraulic pressures. We did this ride in '01 and everybody walking out the exit was *****ing about it. I think I'll stick with Star Tours.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING


If memory serves me it consisted of three coasters-two of which are identically but opposite.

Did you ride those coasters..becasuse that sentance is completely wrong.

The Dr Doom ride,which was a joke.

It's no Tower of Terror thats for sure. It could have been better

A poorly themed log flume that uses water cannons at the end on the drop to soak you.

No it's not as good as Splash come you can say , we all have.

There was an Atlantis type ride that had potential,but was being revamped the last time we were there.

Too bad you missed it it is one of the best indoor attractions in Flordai.

The cat in the hat area-not an e-ride by any stretch.

Built for Kids not adults really. So I doubt your wife and you would really get much out of it. So how do you like Dumbo, the Magic Carptes and the Tea cups ?

I'm sure there is more but I think these are most of the hi-lites. Does this list add up to a full day ? To DW and I, absolutely not.

Yes they have the best raft type ride in Flordia with the Popey ride.
There is Jurassic Park River adventure.

...and lets not forget Spiderman the best ride on the planet right .
now.

The Sinbad Stunt show.


Too bad you missed those.

 

[KNWVIKING]

The two coasters I'm refering to are Dueling Dragon- Fire & Ice. They are the exact same only mirror images of each other. The big thrill is when the two sleds are in identical curves and it appears your feet are going to hit the feet of the opposite coaster. And yes I did ride them- wasn't overly impressed.

Spiderman is great,but I'm thinking that was in US, but I'll assume your right.

I did forget about Jurasic park. Don't know how,I just rode it in US Hollywood.

Dr Doom: After all the hype about it, I had a hard time convincing my DW to go on it. She finally said ok. We strapped in, it bounced up & down. She said "that wasn't bad at all". I replied with "hang on,the ride just started". Then the employees came in and released us & showed us the exit. I was dumbfounded. It was nothing at all what I was expected. final insult: DW said "lets do it again".

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Originally posted by fabdisbabe
Hey, man, where's my five bucks? This guy owes me money!

Michelle

AH-HA!!! I KNEW IT!!!!!

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
The two coasters I'm refering to are Dueling Dragon- Fire & Ice. They are the exact same only mirror images of each other. The big thrill is when the two sleds are in identical curves and it appears your feet are going to hit the feet of the opposite coaster. And yes I did ride them- wasn't overly impressed.

Spiderman is great,but I'm thinking that was in US, but I'll assume your right.

I did forget about Jurasic park. Don't know how,I just rode it in US Hollywood.

Dr Doom: After all the hype about it, I had a hard time convincing my DW to go on it. She finally said ok. We strapped in, it bounced up & down. She said "that wasn't bad at all". I replied with "hang on,the ride just started". Then the employees came in and released us & showed us the exit. I was dumbfounded. It was nothing at all what I was expected. final insult: DW said "lets do it again".

Again you are wrong. Fire and Ice are both part of the Duleing Drangons Coaster(s) but each track is completely different. They are not mirror images of each other. Both have several different elements from each other. The only thing they share is that they are both Inverted Coaster Designs. Both give completely different rides from each other. Fire is considered to be the more intens ride. For example one has a cobra roll while the other has a zero-g roll.



Spiderman is in IOA.


You can see more of the parks here....http://www.ioacentral.com/ as it seems you missed alot while you where there.

 

[airlarry!]

Since this is my topic, I will try to keep it on topic... You AK haters, get yer own topic!

As for ‘Aladdin’, yes it follows the ‘Dumbo’ model exactly. As an individual attraction I don’t have a problem with it. My only concern is a nagging question of “this is the best they could come up with?” You would think that after fifty years and umpteen billion dollars later they might have done something more than copy a ride that was Walt’s back-up plan half a century ago. It’s not the ride that I question, it’s the people behind it that worry me.

This should answer your dilemna, Scoop. And I sincerely request that you go back and read the two different expos on TDS by www.mouseplanet.com and www.laughingplace.com.

And as for Aladdin, if memory serves, LandBaron & I discussed this very point a while back. I see nothing wrong with adding another spinner, since it didn't take away anything.

BUT.

You don't get any points in my book for doing so. It's an addition, sure. But it's a fill in. An add on. It ain't no big deal. It's nice and all, but it is not an E*ticket and never will be.

So there's nothing to complain about it, and there's nothing to really applaud anybody for it. For me, Aladdin's Spinner is a non-issue. A red herring. I'm proud of the Imagineers for taking the concept and at least doing a good job with it, for having the pride to make it work. But I am not going to put any feather in ME's cap for adding it. If Monsieur Hill wants patience, then have him leak to me that the next person in charge of the parks admires TDS not DCA and will strive to give the guest that kind of quality. Then I'll move from Car 3 to Car 2 and wait patiently for WDW to move to the next level.

I'm serious about this. I will jump back on the bandwagon as soon as the company's focus is on what AK could have been, what TDS is, and what DCA never was.

And I still believe that Monsieur Jim Hill knows a little more than he is telling us. Don't worry, M. Hill, for you I do have patience.

 

[airlarry!]

FAB, can I pick on Jim just a bit?

This week, he counseled Patience, as if Cou$in Mikey had all these wonderful changes in store for DCA and WDW that we just needed to wait.

Then today, he says don't celebrate PP's leaving, with this quote:

And – from what I’ve been hearing – it looks like Uncle Mike may still end up driving the Walt Disney Company straight into the ground.

'Nuff said? Just gotta tweak Mr. Hill a bit. Should we 'patiently' wait for the company to go into the ground?

 

[Bob O]

KNVIKING-BTTF is a great simulator ride and as much as i like Star Tours its boring in comparison and very dated!!
As for DD both coasters have different layouts but are similiar in many respests but it is the first dueling steel inverted coaster in the world and the only one in the world which is why it is highly rated by coaster enthusiasts, they wnet the extra mile to give the guest a unqiue experience!! (and is in IOA)