Jewish Synagogue dues discussion (idea from the tithe thread)

[VioltePrincess]

membership in my synagogue entitles me to High Holy day tickets for myself and my children. I can purchase additinal tickets for family mebers if I choose.

we don't "sell out" but we have so many people at our services that we offer a second, alternative service in the caterer's cocktail room.

our synagogue relies on the nursery school tuition and the fees from our in huse caterer to meet our budget, the dues alone don't cover expenses. and, of course, people are encouraged to donate over and above the dues and fees.

 

[TheDoctor]

Here's something I never asked my friends - can it "sell out" for the high holidays? I'm not being a smart you know what, I was just wondered if the tickets are limited.

I am at a large congreation (2100 families). We have two sessions of the evening services on the High Holy days. We allow people to decide which service to go to but some large congregations assign you to either the late or early service based on where you name shows up in the alphabet. We also have one service at either the christian church next door and another at either one of the larger churches nearby or at "convention type center" that can hold up to half of the congregation.

 

[ducklite]

I have a question that I've wondered about and never felt comfortable asking my Jewish friends...

If a family or person is truly having financial difficulties--I'm not saying can't make the new Navigtor payment--but maybe had a lay-off at work and has been unable to find new employment, or took a huge pay cut to do so, had serious medical problems with large bills, something along those lines, would the temple still charge them to be a member? Would the Rabbi work something out with them? Is there a fund through Hadassah or JFS or something like that which might cover their dues?

Just curious in the most respectful of ways...

Anne

 

[punkin]

I have a question that I've wondered about and never felt comfortable asking my Jewish friends...

If a family or person is truly having financial difficulties--I'm not saying can't make the new Navigtor payment--but maybe had a lay-off at work and has been unable to find new employment, or took a huge pay cut to do so, had serious medical problems with large bills, something along those lines, would the temple still charge them to be a member? Would the Rabbi work something out with them? Is there a fund through Hadassah or JFS or something like that which might cover their dues?

Just curious in the most respectful of ways...

Anne

Of course they would. I personally know several families (in my temple and others) where this happens. I also know another family in my temple who volunteer A LOT to offset some of the dues they can't afford. They have more time than money.

 

[TheDoctor]

I have a question that I've wondered about and never felt comfortable asking my Jewish friends...

If a family or person is truly having financial difficulties--I'm not saying can't make the new Navigtor payment--but maybe had a lay-off at work and has been unable to find new employment, or took a huge pay cut to do so, had serious medical problems with large bills, something along those lines, would the temple still charge them to be a member? Would the Rabbi work something out with them? Is there a fund through Hadassah or JFS or something like that which might cover their dues?

Just curious in the most respectful of ways...

Anne

There would be an ajdustment made in such a situation. We had something like 30 congregation members who worked at Enron when it collasped and arrangements were made for all of these families to continue their temple membership.

During Katrina, a large portion of the Jewish population of New Orleans ended up in Houston. We made our facilities available for a reformed congregation to have services. My temple made office space available for the rabbi from one of the congregations in New Orleans for several months. During High Holy Days, any one from New Orleans was welcomed to our services without having to ask for a ticket.

 

[punkin]

Most recent study I can find is from 1999. 64% affiliation rate. That actually surprised me, I would have expected it to be much higher. I live in Baltimore and there are areas of town where there is literally a shul on every corner.

I don't think Baltimore is typical. I think it has one of the largest concentrations of Orthodox Jews in the US.

 

[lewdyan1]

I have a question that I've wondered about and never felt comfortable asking my Jewish friends...

If a family or person is truly having financial difficulties--I'm not saying can't make the new Navigtor payment--but maybe had a lay-off at work and has been unable to find new employment, or took a huge pay cut to do so, had serious medical problems with large bills, something along those lines, would the temple still charge them to be a member? Would the Rabbi work something out with them? Is there a fund through Hadassah or JFS or something like that which might cover their dues?

Just curious in the most respectful of ways...

Anne

There are many answers to this. Some have financial aid committees that review and will then suggest a lower rate. A few years ago, my DH worked for a company that went out of busniess, when we told the director, she asked what can you afford, we thought about it and told her and that's what we paid. Unknowingly, she applied for additional scholarship for the kids Hewbrew School fees for us.

I can't image any Jewish institution denying someone for an inability to pay.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Anne, a person is not turned away because they can't pay. And the membership at many congregations is on a sliding scale, depending on income. My DH had a major paycut this summer and we've been paying reduced fee. That is not disclosed to the congregation (but here I am saying it on a discussion board with thousands of people registered ), and each case is handled on a case-by-case basis.

 

[ducklite]

Anne, a person is not turned away because they can't pay. And the membership at many congregations is on a sliding scale, depending on income. My DH had a major paycut this summer and we've been paying reduced fee. That is not disclosed to the congregation (but here I am saying it on a discussion board with thousands of people registered ), and each case is handled on a case-by-case basis.

That was going to be afollow up question--is it handled discreetly where only the Rabbi and/or a small committee of discreet individuals keep that type of information confidential from the rest of the congregation.

Thanks for the answers everyone!

Anne

 

[Tigger&Belle]

That was going to be afollow up question--is it handled discreetly where only the Rabbi and/or a small committee of discreet individuals keep that type of information confidential from the rest of the congregation.

Thanks for the answers everyone!

Anne

My DH is on the board, so might know information that is not general knowledge, but yes, that is confidential, or at least should be.

 

[punkin]

I would like to clear up (again) the misconception that you need to be a member of a Temple to pray there. That is not true. You also generally do not have to be a member to receive many Temple services, such a hebrew school (usualy a separate charge on a sliding scale anyway), lectures, etc. It is very possible (though I suppose not very common) to go to shul every day, 3 times a day for prayers and never pay a penny into the treasury.


I am frankly shocked that churches do not have dues. How do they manage to survive then?

 

[hemispheredancer]

As a Catholic I have had many questions about the Jewish faith. The first being why do you have to pay to to be a member in a house of worship? Catholic parishes around here do not require you to give any money. During mass an offering basket is passed and you are not obligated to give anything. There were weeks when all I could give was $10 and then there are times when I could give $20. We pay $25 per child for religious education. That is for the whole school year.

Second...what is a shul?
Third...why do you need a "ticket" for your High Holidays services? What makes that service so much more significant than any other?

TIA for answering my questions! Punkin, our parish "survives" off of weekly contributions. I am not sure if the Archdiocese contributes anything towards the maintanance/operations of the church and rectory. I am pretty sure they rely on parishioners for most expenses.

 

[punkin]

As a Catholic I have had many questions about the Jewish faith. The first being why do you have to pay to to be a member in a house of worship? Catholic parishes around here do not require you to give any money. During mass an offering basket is passed and you are not obligated to give anything. There were weeks when all I could give was $10 and then there are times when I could give $20. We pay $25 per child for religious education. That is for the whole school year.

Read the thread more carefully. If you cannot afford to pay, you do not have to. There is no obligation (only a moral imperative) The reason people do pay, is to support a Jewish house of worship in their neighborhood; pay for their children's religious education; pay the Rabbi's salary (he did not take a vow of poverty like your priest and has a family to support)

Second...what is a shul?

Shul is synagogue or Temple in Yiddish.

Third...why do you need a "ticket" for your High Holidays services? What makes that service so much more significant than any other?

You need tickets so you know how many people are coming. A lot of people are not members but come to High Holy Days services anyway. Also, because a lot of non-members want to come, it is a fund-raising opportunity for the shul.

TIA for answering my questions! Punkin, our parish "survives" off of weekly contributions. I am not sure if the Archdiocese contributes anything towards the maintanance/operations of the church and rectory. I am pretty sure they rely on parishioners for most expenses.

We have membership dues because we CANNOT give money during Shabbat services (see Bicker's post) so passing the plate (or basket) is out.

 

[JennyMominRI]

As a Catholic I have had many questions about the Jewish faith. The first being why do you have to pay to to be a member in a house of worship? Catholic parishes around here do not require you to give any money. During mass an offering basket is passed and you are not obligated to give anything. There were weeks when all I could give was $10 and then there are times when I could give $20. We pay $25 per child for religious education. That is for the whole school year.

Second...what is a shul?
Third...why do you need a "ticket" for your High Holidays services? What makes that service so much more significant than any other?

TIA for answering my questions! Punkin, our parish "survives" off of weekly contributions. I am not sure if the Archdiocese contributes anything towards the maintanance/operations of the church and rectory. I am pretty sure hey rely on parishioners for most expenses.

You don't have to pay...Anyone can attend services..The exception is the High Holidays when 3 times as many people try to fit into a building that holds 1/3 of the amount..Giving tickets to members is a way to ensure that regular members don't lose their seats to people who come twice a year. It's sprt of like those Easter and Christmas Catholics who only come 2 times a year KWIM? In a synagogie it is Rosh R ashannah and Yom Kippor.Generally the Shuls I have attended have had some sort of service for non-members without tickets..Like someone else said,there is no basket passed around a a Jewish Service...The Shul suvives on paid memberships... When I was converting I went to a shul for 2 years without paying dues...I did pay for some classes however..
Had I wished to become a member they would have worked with me as I was quite badly off at the time due to stroke and other medical problems..I would never have been turned away.

A shul is a synagogue

 

[debbi801]

I have a question that I've wondered about and never felt comfortable asking my Jewish friends...

If a family or person is truly having financial difficulties--I'm not saying can't make the new Navigtor payment--but maybe had a lay-off at work and has been unable to find new employment, or took a huge pay cut to do so, had serious medical problems with large bills, something along those lines, would the temple still charge them to be a member? Would the Rabbi work something out with them? Is there a fund through Hadassah or JFS or something like that which might cover their dues?

Just curious in the most respectful of ways...

Anne

Most definitely. I went through a situation like this. I talked to the office and was told to pay what I could afford and if that was nothing then so be it. Also, I know the dues are on a sliding scale, being significantly lower for single parent families, senior citizens, college students, and others on a fixed income.

 

[debbi801]

Also, to add to the ticket thing for the High Holy Days... At many of the temples around here, the ticket is also used as a security measure. We generally have police or other security staff on duty verifying tickets as people go into the synogogue to make sure someone who should not be there tries something they shouldn't.

Not sure if this is a Baltimore thing or if other areas do the same.

Also,a s far as religious school goes... At my temple, once the kids complete 3rd grade, you must be a member in order for your child to continue religious education there. I think that is because 4th grade is when mid-week religious school gets added for b'nai mitzvah prep.

 

[cherylp3]

We also were able to join a when we had financial difficulties when we lived in MA.

Now that my finances are better, I send a donation to that temple every year.

Cheryl

 

[punkin]

Yes. The security thing. Unfortunately, we live in a time where gunmen can go and shoot up kindergarteners in a JCC. Security is definately an issue.

 

[bicker]

If you cannot afford to pay, you do not have to.

This is a critical point. I wouldn't be surprised to learned that the term "sliding-scale" was coined in a synagogue.

We have membership dues because we CANNOT give money during Shabbat services (see Bicker's post) so passing the plate (or basket) is out.

My post might not have been explicit enough: It is a sin to carry money on the Sabbath. Jews are not allowed to transact with money, even to donate to a synagogue, on the Sabbath. All raising-of-money by a synagogue must take place on other days of the week.

 

[TheDoctor]

Also, to add to the ticket thing for the High Holy Days... At many of the temples around here, the ticket is also used as a security measure. We generally have police or other security staff on duty verifying tickets as people go into the synogogue to make sure someone who should not be there tries something they shouldn't.

Yes, it is also a security measure. We have a police officer check the tickets as people come in with a Temple Board member sitting nearby to resolve any issues. The ADL has a meeting every year just before High Holy Days where security for the upcoming services is discussed by all of the Temples, the FBI and local law enforcement. For example during High Holy Days, the officers will check backpacks and large bags. If there is a security alert in place, then we have more police officers on standby and may force more people to use remote parking.

The board memebers on duty have a list of members in good standing and procedures for admitting people like college students and visitors from out of town. For example following Katrina, the Houston Jewish community went out of its way to make sure that everyone from New Orleans who was Jewish was taken care of and could attend services.