It's wrong to compare FP+ to FP-

[JoshuaShaw]

However the FP+ system was designed specifically so that you cannot "go commando" like you used to, since this was basically at the expense of other visitors.

It wasn't, but I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion.

 

[Bete]

FP+ is not a "modification to FastPass". You can not compare it that way. The only way to properly look at FP+ is to compare it "no FP at all". Why? Because Disney looked at FP- and said "this isn't right, some people are riding the headliners 2-4 times a day with no wait, while other people are standing in line for 2 hours just to ride once". Therefore FP- was going to be eliminated, regardless of what system took it's place. The biggest complaint about FP+ that I read is: "I cannot do as many attractions with FP+ as I did with FP- before". However the FP+ system was designed specifically so that you cannot "go commando" like you used to, since this was basically at the expense of other visitors. Compare it to a theme park which has NO system for by-passing lines, and it's a pretty decent system.

There's more to it. For one, it's not letting offsite guests be on an equal level playing field. I'm most discouraged by this being allowed. I know the final product on fastpass plus is not there yet, but it's not looking good for offsite guests. If Disney was just trying to be more fair with spreading the fastpasses all around they wouldn't be excluding offsite guests in this way. Disney is strictly thinking about their deep pockets, here. I feel they have crossed the line with getting way to greedy. Walt is turning in his grave on this one. Next, most of us rely in life on the ideology first come, first serve. Fastpass plus takes that all away. Personally, I like this philosophy. I've read an article recently that magic band and fastpass plus cost Disney over a billion dollars to implement and so, of course they won't give up on it. So, they will continue to shove a bad system down our throat. They have lost me. I don't know what it is that will bring me back, either. So, you should be happy. There will be one less family going there. And the more one tries to defend this bad system the more I will stay away. This article continued to say Disney is doing all of this to track every move you make in their resort and parks. I don't want big brother watching me. This is very sneaky on Disney's part to do this. I'm basically done with Disney. I leave a very small window open to gain back my confidence, but I know Disney's greed will get the best of us; so, I'm moving on. I've already enjoyed other vacations and I'm just as happy or even happier visiting other destinations.

 

[Bete]

This is my major problem with it. I hate appointments! I can't stand scheduling in advance and having an appointment. Even an "appointment" for something fun bothers me and feels like it is hemming me in. Vacation by appointment doesn't fit my style. If I was handed three FP's in the morning and could just use them on whatever/whenever I could probably handle that. I would think 3 paled compared to FP- but far better than 3 by appt. Blech! On our last trip having three FP's did not keep us in the park. When the three were done and if lines were long then we were done too. I may try rope drop some on this trip but it is again another scheduling issue I don't like.

I agree.

 

[Reddog1134]

Next, most of us rely in life on the ideology first come, first serve. Fastpass plus takes that all away..

The old FP system WAS first come, first serve if you consider just FP itself. However, it did conflict with that ideology once you factor in the standby.

FP+ just adds another level to it.

Old system: FP>standby

New system: Onsite FP+>offsite FP+>standby

 

[Sandy Fisher]

Disney doesn't give a hoot about who you are or how many rides you ride or how you do it.
They do give a big hoot about $$$ and where you spend them.
I, too, hate appointmens. At my age we have more than enough in our day-to-day lives. The last thing I want to do is make an appointment for a ride/attraction/meal, etc. on vacation.
Are you kidding me???
I went to Disney many times before the original fast pass. We rarely used the original fast pass. I'm not the least bit interested in using FP plus. To me it's a big minus.
People look as me as if I have two heads when I tell them I don't want to prearrange my days at the parks. I don't. DH doesn't. We don't. We aren't going to. We'll take our chances and ride/do what we can.
What I DON'T like about the new system is that it causes artificial back-ups and longer stand-by lines because people can only get 3 of their most desired FP times per park per day.
And that's why I compare the two systems. The other one worked fine for us whether we used it or not. This one causes pressures on our way of doing Disney even if it wasn't intended to do that.
Now I'll get off my soapbox.
Aren't ya glad........

 

[Mad Hattered]

Wrong.

 

[Praying Colonel]

When the stories come back from vacation as "we paid $80 a day to wait in line and only went on 4 rides"....then yes, this is a business case for making the system more fair.

I don't agree with that either, but that's a far cry from your original statement (that Disney was going to eliminate FP-).

 

[Bullseye]

Because that way is the only way FP+ doesn't look like a steaming pile?

Despite my stance on the FP+ issue, I have to admit, That's funny!

The intention of MM+ including FP+ was to "lock in" the guests time on Disney property to prevent them from being enticed by other Orlando options. "This way we get a larger share of their wallet" to quote Tom Staggs.

I still don't get this rationale The last four years we've always spent at least 2 days at US/IOA during our "WDW" vacation. We will do the same this June. The only thing Disney could do to prevent that would be add a lot more "E" ticket rides to their parks.

We also still eat offsite several times and shop for provisions at regular area stores. This is the beauty of having your own wheels in WDW...you can get out and enjoy the area! You're not locked into anything.

 

[LisaTC]

What Disney says and what they mean or what their real reasoning is can be two entirely different things. Saying they want to lock in their guests experiences 60 days prior and keep them on property sounds like a reasonable gimmick, but who knows if that is their actual reason. I've heard a lot of people deciding to leave mid day and do other things at other places...ergo defeating the FP+ purpose, wouldn't you say? I don't know. I think their real purpose is more data collection/tracking. The MBs are little data tracking devices. This is what our guests did during the first half of 2014, here's what they spent, where they went, yadda yadda. That makes more sense to me and a 900M dollars to accomplish that, facilitate park entry, shopping, etc., is a drop in the hat for them. Come on...you didn't REALLY think they'd tell you exactly what they are doing and why? Paper FP's were going to be on their way out in some manner. They had them for a while, tweaked them, and now they are moving on to a more 'trackable' method of operations. FWIW.

 

[mom2AidanAndEli]

What Disney says and what they mean or what their real reasoning is can be two entirely different things. Saying they want to lock in their guests experiences 60 days prior and keep them on property sounds like a reasonable gimmick, but who knows if that is their actual reason. I've heard a lot of people deciding to leave mid day and do other things at other places...ergo defeating the FP+ purpose, wouldn't you say? I don't know. I think their real purpose is more data collection/tracking. The MBs are little data tracking devices. This is what our guests did during the first half of 2014, here's what they spent, where they went, yadda yadda. That makes more sense to me and a 900M dollars to accomplish that, facilitate park entry, shopping, etc., is a drop in the hat for them. Come on...you didn't REALLY think they'd tell you exactly what they are doing and why? Paper FP's were going to be on their way out in some manner. They had them for a while, tweaked them, and now they are moving on to a more 'trackable' method of operations. FWIW.

I do agree a lot of it has to do with tracking. But if that's the only reason they instituted FP+, they could have done it without completely changing the system. Just make the old-fashioned FP machines compatible with the MBs and keep the system the same. Or just have it load the FPs onto you band at the same type of kiosks at each ride. It would still track where you were and what you were doing. So there has to be another reason for the FP+....and I'm sure it has to do with money!

 

[Reddog1134]

What Disney says and what they mean or what their real reasoning is can be two entirely different things. Saying they want to lock in their guests experiences 60 days prior and keep them on property sounds like a reasonable gimmick, but who knows if that is their actual reason. I've heard a lot of people deciding to leave mid day and do other things at other places...ergo defeating the FP+ purpose, wouldn't you say? I don't know. I think their real purpose is more data collection/tracking. The MBs are little data tracking devices. This is what our guests did during the first half of 2014, here's what they spent, where they went, yadda yadda. That makes more sense to me and a 900M dollars to accomplish that, facilitate park entry, shopping, etc., is a drop in the hat for them. Come on...you didn't REALLY think they'd tell you exactly what they are doing and why? Paper FP's were going to be on their way out in some manner. They had them for a while, tweaked them, and now they are moving on to a more 'trackable' method of operations. FWIW.

You're confusing the Magic Bands with FP+.

FP+ itself isn't going to track you (except for your 3 FP ride picks). The RFID chip in the Magic Band will.

Also, if they were going to lie about it, I think they would have come up with something better than "we're trying to get more money out of you".

 

[LisaTC]

Yes, they could've done that and I'm not confusing the two. I think they deliberately combined the two. I'm not sure as a PP mentioned that they could've upgraded the software for the older FP system, I think there was issue with that - some discussion among software geeks to that affect. They aren't exactly coming out and saying we want more money from you, but we are all definitely inferring that, to be sure. I think the initial idea with MB morphed with including FP+, committing 60 days prior, committing to onsite and tracking all of it. It is a nice tidy package -- for Disney.

 

[disneyfantotheend]

I am another person who finds it hard to believe that FP+ was introduced to punish the superusers and reward those who choose to sleep in. Which is exactly what you are saying when you say, "Why? Because Disney looked at FP- and said "this isn't right, some people are riding the headliners 2-4 times a day with no wait, while other people are standing in line for 2 hours just to ride once".

Just doesn't seem like a logical reason to spend billions of dollars. Maybe I am wrong though.

 

[surferdave]

Yes, they could've done that and I'm not confusing the two. I think they deliberately combined the two. I'm not sure as a PP mentioned that they could've upgraded the software for the older FP system, I think there was issue with that - some discussion among software geeks to that affect. They aren't exactly coming out and saying we want more money from you, but we are all definitely inferring that, to be sure. I think the initial idea with MB morphed with including FP+, committing 60 days prior, committing to onsite and tracking all of it. It is a nice tidy package -- for Disney.

Actually a Disney exec did say it to board members/stockholders (that this system will keep guests on property spending money longer) to justify the expense, and I agree with your original statement: what they really want is the consumer data. It's just too hard to explain how it's going to make money that way to them.

 

[LisaTC]

I am another person who finds it hard to believe that FP+ was introduced to punish the superusers and reward those who choose to sleep in. Which is exactly what you are saying when you say, "Why? Because Disney looked at FP- and said "this isn't right, some people are riding the headliners 2-4 times a day with no wait, while other people are standing in line for 2 hours just to ride once".

Just doesn't seem like a logical reason to spend billions of dollars. Maybe I am wrong though.

Yes...that doesn't seem logical. Seems like punishment to lovers of the FP-, I get it, believe me. We also don't know what Disney tracked with regard of the use of the FP- like they CLEARLY can with the new system where just about everything is now linked.

Data collection at Disney must be a very interesting job...Their increase in revenue in 2013: "higher prices were the biggest driver of growth. Combined guest spending at Disney's parks in Orlando and Anaheim, Calif., rose 9 percent during the quarter on higher average ticket prices and increased food and merchandise sales. Per-room spending in its hotels — which are concentrated at Disney World " - Orlando Sentinel

If they can get you to spend more per room in their rooms, that is their profit. Access to FP+ for onsite guests gives them this edge...we don't have to like it, I don't think Disney cares if we like it or not. I'm going back regardless. Some will choose not to.

 

[redsbe]

"When the stories come back from vacation as "we paid $80 a day to wait in line and only went on 4 rides"....then yes, this is a business case for making the system more fair. "

Depending what time of year when you traveled to WDW and whether you used RD, same comment could have during the non-FP and FP- eras. I went plenty of times, even during lower crowds, when securing more then 3 or 4 FP (or even using RD plus SB to ride 3-4 times) to ride the few major headline rides in each park was difficult if not impossible.

 

[redsbe]

Yes...that doesn't seem logical. Seems like punishment to lovers of the FP-, I get it, believe me. We also don't know what Disney tracked with regard of the use of the FP- like they CLEARLY can with the new system where just about everything is now linked.

Data collection at Disney must be a very interesting job...

Since you had to use some version of a WDW card to secure a FP-, it is pretty certain that WDW collected and studied data on rides selected, number of FP, from individual and collective WDW visitors.

 

[redsbe]

There is also market and economic value associated with FP+ to tell visitors (especially new ones) that with MBs and FP+ you can pre-book 3 attractions in a park each day during their visit without worrying about long lines in SB.

I understand that alone is not enough economic value for WDW to make the investment in MBs and FP+, and that many other benefits to WDW exist, but it is a factor, one which is integral to their current marketing efforts.

 

[EMode]

FP+ is not a "modification to FastPass". You can not compare it that way. The only way to properly look at FP+ is to compare it "no FP at all".

Why? Because Disney looked at FP- and said "this isn't right, some people are riding the headliners 2-4 times a day with no wait, while other people are standing in line for 2 hours just to ride once".

Therefore FP- was going to be eliminated, regardless of what system took it's place.

The biggest complaint about FP+ that I read is: "I cannot do as many attractions with FP+ as I did with FP- before". However the FP+ system was designed specifically so that you cannot "go commando" like you used to, since this was basically at the expense of other visitors.

Compare it to a theme park which has NO system for by-passing lines, and it's a pretty decent system.

First of all, Disney did not look at FP- and say "its unfair", they did not institute FP+ to make things fair. That is a ridiculous notion.
Second, of course anyone who has used FP- can compare it to FP+

What an odd thread

 

[Angel Ariel]

I still don't get this rationale The last four years we've always spent at least 2 days at US/IOA during our "WDW" vacation. We will do the same this June. The only thing Disney could do to prevent that would be add a lot more "E" ticket rides to their parks.

We also still eat offsite several times and shop for provisions at regular area stores. This is the beauty of having your own wheels in WDW...you can get out and enjoy the area! You're not locked into anything.

I don't know that I understand the "locking in" rationale either(because FP+ appts aren't going to change my plans) - but that is the only rationale that Disney has actually gone on record stating is the reasoning behind MM+/FP+.