It's A Not-So-Small World

[OKW Lover]

I'd like to see some light rail.

Perhaps a line from FW to WL to MK, but that would probably mean expanding the water bridge for the light rail to go under the waterway linking 7 Seas Lagoon with Bay Lake and, of course it duplicates the water taxi service already running.

How about light rail from International Gateway to the Studio and on to AK? Or a line that starts at Pop, runs thru CBR then on to DHS followed by CSR and finally AK or even AKL.

 

[goofy4tink]

goofy4tink, you made me rethink my vote!!!

I voted for buses resrt to resort, but I (grudginly) see your point.

ok, how about occasional buses from Boardwalk to other resorts? that way if you take advantage of the nightlife or restaurants there or at Yacht/Beach club, you don't have to take a bus to DTD to get back to your resort.
the monorail resorts have MK for transfer, but the "epcot resorts" IS a destination. and not all people buy hoppers, or are even using a park ticket for that day. maybe just run the buses later in the evening, after DHS is closed.

But there are buses from BW back to various resorts later in the evening. If you are at, say Jellyrolls, late and want to go back to, say, POP, you just have to walk out to the BW bus stop. When the bus gets there, the driver usually asks what resort you're going to and will drive you there.

 

[seashoreCM]

1. A system of some sort (light rail, etc.) from Downtown Disney other than Buena Vista Drive.

2. An express exit for buses out of Typhoon Lagoon. (May take the form of a double lane road going into TL with one of the lanes commandeered for buses going the other way during peak times.

3. More extra buses (run as directed) so whenever people are left behind at a stop, the next bus arrives in less than ten minutes.

4. Signs with readouts that tell when the next bus for each destination will arrive. Just inside the park exit as well as at the stop.

 

[Magicbus]

Fun stuff to think about!

Yes it is but how do you get around the cost factor.

I'd like to see some light rail.
Perhaps a line from FW to WL to MK,
How about light rail from International Gateway to the Studio and on to AK? Or a line that starts at Pop, runs thru CBR then on to DHS followed by CSR and finally AK or even AKL.

1. A system of some sort (light rail, etc.) from Downtown Disney other than Buena Vista Drive.
2. An express exit for buses out of Typhoon Lagoon.
3. More extra buses (run as directed) so whenever people are left behind at a stop, the next bus arrives in less than ten minutes.
4. Signs with readouts that tell when the next bus for each destination will arrive.

Remember, Fantasyland is at the MK.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Magic its not just cost part of it is presentation.......show quality......


I do wonder what does the average WDW bus cost, plus maintence and how long does it last?

 

[Brian Noble]

If the resorts want a higher level of bus service than they have now, they will be charged more. Or should I say, you will be asked to pay more to stay at that resort. Is that something you're willing to do?

Naturally, it depends on how much. But, the DVC resorts give a sense for what those costs really are, because they are legally required to charge only for real costs, without including profit.

Right now, AKV charges its owners about 33 cents per point for transportation costs. I picked AKV because it *only* has bus service; no boats/monorails. A "typical" night at AKV (in a studio) costs about 16 points. So, in round numbers right now it costs the resorts about $5-6/night/room for bus service. That actually feels a little low to me compared to, say, most public transit systems, but even if you nearly doubled it, then we could figure that it's on the order of $10/night for transportation costs per room at the current level of service for that resort.

I'm going to guess that the larger a resort is in terms of # of rooms, the less per night each room has to pay---because you don't necessarily need to run twice as many buses for a resort that's twice as big, because not all buses are full right now.

But, in any event, suppose the buses came every 15 minutes, instead of every 20. That's an increase of one third (four buses/hour rather than three), or an extra $3-4ish per day. I'd pay an extra $3-4ish per day (plus a reasonable percentage to cover profit/management/etc.) for that.

Edited: but magicbus' point is well taken. Nothing happens at WDW without the guests somehow paying for it---and that includes any improvement in transportation services.

 

[Brian Noble]

As for the poll question: neither of the first two ideas are cost effective. The only reason to run a resort-to-resort bus is if there are more than a handful of people who need it. I would be surprised if more than a very small minority of guests go to a resort that isn't their own for dinner. A few more would do so if it were easier to do, but those restaurants are generally already full, so it's not like there is extra revenue to be generated this way. The monorail is just ridiculously expensive to expand.

I would be happy with (a) increased frequency of trips generally across the Resort on currently existing routes, and (b) eliminating what seem to be persistent "black holes" in the current transportation system---for example, the OKW->MK route seems to have more than its fair share of long delays in the afternoons. I've had to wait ~30-35 minutes for a bus then several times now.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Folks I guess maybe I am missing the point here.????.if this is only about costs....then why not just get rid of the busses we have now and get school type buses..we could save alot of money that way............???


The point is guests are not happy with the big part the buses play in the present transportation system.. The ones I have spoken with the last 2 years seemed to want more monorail Whether that is good or bad needs study)and water craft.....there are other systems available.like light rail and tire in track.....yes the guests will have pay for it. The question is will Disney offer the better systems/better choices and continue at the Worlds pop vacation destination or just drop down to 6 flags level or worse?

AKK

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

Actually WDW already has buses that go resort to resort it's just not how some people want them to be. For example the Magic Kingdom Monorail Resorts along with the Wilderness Lodge all have various sharing routes each day, plus the Boardwalk, Yacht Club, Beach Club, Swan & Dolphin also have different sharing routes between them. So I don't think we will ever see buses that go from the Contemporary to the Boardwalk because it might make things even more complicated when it comes to their current bus system.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Magic its not just cost part of it is presentation.......show quality......


I do wonder what does the average WDW bus cost, plus maintence and how long does it last?

But getting Guests around the 43+ square miles of property isn't, effectively, part of the show. It's about efficiency and cost. Buses make the most sense overall because while they're themed, they're also flexible. Once you put in ANY system that requires a track, you lose all flexibility. Sure, you can 'theme' the vehicles - but you can't redirect them as needed. As goofy4tink points out with the monorail, if a light rail train breaks down, you clog the whole system (ask those of us who use public transportation ).

If a route becomes unpopular or superfluous and you're using light rail, train, or monorail, you're wasting resources. If you're using buses, you simply change the bus routes. Business sheers off dramatically? Sell some of the buses. Can't do that with the alternatives mentioned here.

 

[maxiesmom]

That's a great idea!

Except that Disney often change the bus routes on the fly. So you could be staring at a sign that says "Next bus in 5 minutes" only to see it change to "Next bus in 10 minutes". It would be almost worthless as a dependable count down.

 

[Magicbus]

I would be happy with (a) increased frequency of trips generally across the Resort on currently existing routes, and (b) eliminating what seem to be persistent "black holes" in the current transportation system---for example, the OKW->MK route seems to have more than its fair share of long delays in the afternoons.

But if in fact WDW Transport is providing whatever bus service level the resort is paying for, then isn't the problem with the resort?

Folks I guess maybe I am missing the point here? If this is only about costs....then why not just get rid of the busses we have now and get school type buses?

It's about how much are people willing to pay for transportation. If it went from $10/day to $50/day for monorail, light rail, or whatever, would most people be ok with that, I wouldn't.

The point is guests are not happy with the big part the buses play in the present transportation system.

The facts and my day to day experiences do not support that statement

Actually WDW already has buses that go resort to resort it's just not how some people want them to be.

It's about efficiency and cost. Buses make the most sense overall because while they're themed, they're also flexible.

I hate it when you guys make sense.
IMO, Disney is not going to expand the Monorail system to any significant degree. Direct resort to resort buses are not going to be added because there isn't a stash of unused buses standing by, and the same is true for park to DTD buses. There is nowhere enough demand to justify either one. Disney has been and will continue to upgrade the bus system. Maybe not as fast or in the manner some on here would like, but let's not lose sight of the fact that we're talking about theme park transportation and not day to day real life. And there is always the option of renting or using your own car.

 

[Brian Noble]

But if in fact WDW Transport is providing whatever bus service level the resort is paying for, then isn't the problem with the resort?

I never blamed "WDW Transport" (the business unit) for those black holes---you read into that. I just called them "transportation"---and my suggestions for improvement aren't "WDW Transport" has to do it, but "the Resort" (as in WDW, not specific hotel business units) should do it---and, if they made a few small adjustments, it would increase room rates in a small enough way so as to be barely noticeable.

However, even though I understand how the money flows, that's not the question. From the average guest's point of view, the internal accounting details of the various segments across the Resort are immaterial. What they see is persistent problems at specific locations. And, these problems are pretty well known. Worse, the incentive structure within WDW---independent business units each having to make the bottom line pay---leads to these problems. Having each business unit accountable has a lot of advantages, but when service is fragmented across units, each one is busy pointing the finger at the other when something goes wrong, rather than figuring out how to fix it. Yes, the resorts would have to add a little to their transportation budget, and it would mean a small room rate increase---but that would give people even *fewer* reasons to want their own cars, and we all know how valuable that is to WDW as a whole. But, the individual resort GMs have no incentive to do that---so they don't, because to them, it's pure cost.

The most galling part of this specific instance is that it isn't even "Disney" that would have to pay for it---it is the OKW owners. You could probably solve this specific problem at OKW for a few pennies per point. The OKW owners would never miss it.

 

[Magicbus]

Except that Disney often change the bus routes on the fly.

They do?????

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

But if in fact WDW Transport is providing whatever bus service level the resort is paying for, then isn't the problem with the resort?

It's about how much are people willing to pay for transportation. If it went from $10/day to $50/day for monorail, light rail, or whatever, would most people be ok with that, I wouldn't.

You hit the nial on the head.....its what the people will pay for a better WDW vacation and that includes transportation. I total disgree with the comparison of 10 to 50........the actual amounts would not be anywhere near that...the cities with monorails find that per person costs are anywhere from estimtied 20% to 200%. Montreal has been running a tire in track tram syatem for 30 years cheaped then buses and that on old and renewed tech.

The facts and my day to day experiences do not support that statement.

I respect your larger sampling base but I hear a different story and the blogs support that (of course you have to take some of the posts as extreme opinions on either end of the issue and dismiss them).

Just my opinion..we will have tio agree to disagree

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

But if in fact WDW Transport is providing whatever bus service level the resort is paying for, then isn't the problem with the resort?

It's about how much are people willing to pay for transportation. If it went from $10/day to $50/day for monorail, light rail, or whatever, would most people be ok with that, I wouldn't.

You hit the nail on the head.....its what the people will pay for a better WDW vacation and that includes transportation. I total disgree with the comparison of 10 to 50........the actual amounts would not be anywhere near that...the cities with monorails find that per person costs are anywhere from estimtied 20% to 200%. Montreal has been running a tire in track tram syatem for 30 years cheaped then buses and that on old and renewed tech.




The facts and my day to day experiences do not support that statement.

I respect your larger sampling base but I hear a different story and the blogs support that (of course you have to take some of the posts as extreme opinions on either end of the issue and dismiss them).

Just my opinion..we will have to agree to disagree

AKK

 

[maxiesmom]

They do?????

Isn't that what the person in the white van is doing? I've watched the bus pull up to it, and they seem to get instructions on where to go next. Isn't that the point of their new and improved system?

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I thought they just flipped a coin when where to send the extra bus out?

 

[dburg30]

Isn't that what the person in the white van is doing? I've watched the bus pull up to it, and they seem to get instructions on where to go next. Isn't that the point of their new and improved system?

Isnt that usually at a park close to closing time?

The bus is dispatched to their next place as they pull into their drop off normally. Havent you ever seen the driver get on and say "Dispatch 4389" (or whatever bus number) Then dispatch will come back with "4389 dispatch, 5324, Epcot to CSR" or whatever. The driver punches 5324 into their fancy box, it updates their signage and sets their GPS??? Or I'm pretty sure that's how much of it happens.

 

[maxiesmom]

I thought they just flipped a coin when where to send the extra bus out?

I heard it was Rock Paper Scissors.