Is this any time to do a large add-on?

[DVCajun]

I think it's because Disney pours money into marketing that you won't. Think about all of those kiosks all over WDW. If you put your own right next to theirs you would sell, but given that many people haven't even *heard* of DVC it stands to reason they wouldn't know to look for resales as well.

 

[invalid_char]

DVCajun, do you think they would mind if I put up a kiosk next to theirs?

 

[fkj2]

There is always that perception that people are buying the "newest" DVC also. You've read posts here and on the Rent/Trade board where people list OKW as their "least" favorite DVC resort and yet the points are the most available to rent, lowest dues, and use, since it is also the largest DVC. They don't seem to consider that as members, we have the same opportunities to use the other facilites, albeit with time constraints at WDW and thus are sometimes closed out to OKWers, like BWV at Christmas, but the Concierge Collection and Resort exchanges cost us the same points as those who own at BWV, VWL, HH, VeroBeach, and now BCV.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if people bought DVC with some intentions of exchanging out, OKW has an advantage because the points are the least expensive to have purchased and with the lowest dues value per year.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by invalid_char
Dean, you're the expert in this, why would a buyer pay $14pp more to go through Disney?

There are many reasons I can think of. No closing costs through DVC, less maint fees the first year, buy the new resort that's not really available resale, buy exactly what you want (use year, points, etc), financing, make reservations from the start, comfort level to name a few. There are also reasons to buy resale to include cheaper and resorts not available through DVC.

To me, the difference of $1000 to $1500 is about the cut off where I'd think it's worthwhile for the buyer. One who bought at $70 per point is not going to break even if they sell until the price they can sell out is around $10 per point more than they bought which puts the retail costs at around $20-25 per point above where they bought. That ignores any usage and of course any points variables such as points borrowed and used.

One should rarely buy a timeshare with the idea of selling it and making money and DVC is about as good as it gets in holding it's value in the timeshare world. Many who bought timeshares from a developer couldn't even get 25% of what they paid the very next day.

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by invalid_char
Could someone explain to me how Disney can sell BCV for $84pp but I would struggle to get my $70pp initial investment back? ...(snip)...

I think you could eventually sell your BCV points and get your $70 per point investment back but IMHO, it will take awhile for Disney prices to get high enough to attract resale buyers to your contract.

Unless you can find your own buyer, you will need the help of a broker/sales agent. That means you have to pay commission fees. Assuming you want all of your $70 per point investment back, and without me knowing exactly what most brokers charge, I'd guess it would add $4 to $5 per point (maybe more) to the sales price. Now we are talking about a differential of approximately $10 per point (not $14) and all of the other factors really come into play in a potential buyer's decision - i.e., resort, number of points, banked/borrowed points, closing fees, maintenance dues, length of time to make the initial ressie after purchase, easier financing, etc. My point is that it could take awhile to find a buyer whose needs match your contract well enough to meet your price.

 

[Dean]

I just went back and reviewed almost a week on the Rent/Trade board, isn't having the afternoon off great. The only listing I saw that was less than $10 per point and did not list an expiration was at $9.50 pp. I saw one listed at $8 per point expiring late next year and another at $8.50 expiring Feb I believe. I did see a couple of people asking for reservations at lower prices, one said $6-7 per point, but since that person posted another thread later without the low points offer, I assume they had no takers.

I stand by my original impression that anyone who trumpets DVC rentals at $5-6 per point has a hidden agenda. Whether it's blowing their horn at how cheap they got one rental, hoping someone will believe them so they can rent more cheaply or just trying to trash DVC to make themselves feel better or more important is the question. I'd be happy to rent at that price. Heck if that's all it was worth, all of the points exchange options would be a very good deal.

 

[Bottlejet]

Please let me assure everyone that my intention was not to make anyone angry, but rather just to provide some information that might help other folks save some money. I really love to buy high quality items at low prices. With the advent of the Internet it has become a hobby of mine to search for low prices on travel, room accommodations, DVD's, CD's, electronics and various other stuff. I regularly visit such sites as www.pricewatch.com, www.pricescan.com, www.shopper.com, and www.mysimon.com (just to name a few) and look for great deals on items that I need. I had to replace my computer mouse recently and I found a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer for just $11.00 with no sales tax and free shipping! Normal retail on this item at Best Buy (for example) is $45.00. I purchase a lot of Disney items too. For example, I recently bought the Monster's Inc. DVD for $14.21. In short, I like to save money and I think most other folks do as well.

So, with all that said, let me also say that I do not wish to besmirch the DVC. I think it is a wonderful company and offers some great discounts on accommodations at WDW and other places. I have not yet used the DVC to travel anywhere other than WDW but the discounts I have gotten as a result of DVC rentals have been very good. My significant other and I just closed a deal to visit WDW next month at the Wilderness Lodge Villas by renting DVC points. We saved a ton of money over the regular rate. Without going into all the detailed math, the normal rental for 5 nights (including one Saturday) for a Studio is $269 per night for a total of $1,345 (plus 12% tax) for a grand total of $1,506.40. Wow! That's a lot of money. So I checked around and was able to rent 72 points (23 points for the Saturday and 48 points for the other nights) at $8.00 a point. Grand total was $576.00 for the same deal and we saved $930.00 (and we only needed 71 points but we bought the extra point because the entire deal was so inexpensive). I love DVC rentals! We're working on another deal for December right now and I'll be happy to share the results of that deal too.

I can think of several instances in which it might make a lot of sense to buy a DVC contract, but for me, it has been far less expensive to go the rental route. I have attached a good link at mouseplanet that has a rather detailed discussion concerning the DVC and other timeshare properties. However, be advised that the information in this link is not very current. Most of the articles were written back in the late 90's and don't reflect the current poor economy. Good luck and good shopping!


http://www.mouseplanet.com/dtp/dvc/

 

[Dean]

No one said there weren't bargains to be had. Especially if you're willing to look for distressed points and travel fairly short notice. The problem I have with your postings is that you indicated that the going rate was less than $6 per point. You have obviously proven otherwise by renting distressed points at $8 per point which is an appropriate rate for points that will expire, esle you paid too much. Looking for bargains is fine, we all do it. Trying to convince members that the going rate is rediculously low while at the same time trolling for reservations is what I have a problem with. I saw it as self serving and still do.

 

[Bottlejet]

Hi Dean! Well, actually $8.00 a point is the highest we have ever paid for DVC rentals and that was because my significant other didn't wish to haggle on this one (it's a special anniversary time for us). As for "trolling for reservations", I am not familiar with the term but it sounds bad to me. Are you implying that I am doing something dishonest or wrong? FYI, I have never purchased rental points from anyone posting on this forum. As you can see, I am new to this forum. All of my DVC rentals have been accomplished via other Internet groups or realtors. I am not sure why your posts to me have been so hostile. If you are suffering from buyers remorse please don't blame me. I didn't sell you the contract. Supply and demand is a basic economic principle upon which the USA was built. Are you against free enterprise? You sound rather bitter to me.

I have seen the term "distressed points" on more than one occasion and I find the term to be unrealistic. In reality, the points are just fine but the owner of the points is distressed because they have found themselves financially overextended. This situation is becoming increasingly common for some DVC owners due to the downturn in the economy. It is not my fault that some DVC owners are financially in over their heads. As I said in a previous post, the common asking price for DVC rental points is $10.00 but I have never paid that amount during the past 5 years that I have rented points. I still see points put up for rental at $12.50 and I have no doubt that some folks pay that price! Again, I am just speaking from my personal experience, your mileage may vary.

Please let me add that I really enjoy looking for bargains! While I have always been able to afford the purchase of any DVC location (cash) I did the math and (for me) never found it to be a good deal. Why should I pay upfront costs and maintenance fees when other people are willing to do that? I can rent points at WDW resorts during anytime I wish to visit for far less than a DVC contract would cost. What is my incentive to buy into the DVC? I think that I am in the "catbird's seat". Just my opinion.

 

[Dean]

As I said, there are sometimes bargains to be had. When I use the term distressed points, I am referring to points that will expire and the owner must move. As to my hostility toward you, it's more toward the type of poster you are. We've seen them before. You come in new and proceeded to tell everyone how little their ownership is worth in both true value and rental value. What's more, you are totally off base in your estimates of the value of both. While you may fish around and find an occassional lower rate, what you have found is not at all the norm and as such doesn't represent the value of DVC points.

When I said you were trolling, I was saying you were fishing for cheaper rentals by talking DVC down and hoping someone would believe you thus reducing their expectations and their rental price. It's much like a car dealer finding all the problems with your used car and reducing the price offered.

As for buyers remorse, I don't think so. I own 9 timeshare weeks including 3 contracts at DVC. I rent various ones that I am not going to use that year. I've never had a problem doing so for what I felt was a fair price and that includes this year. Some I've had to rent short notice and I've always been able to get what I felt was appropriate. I've also sold timeshares and always come out ahead there as well. BTW, I just bought one of my DVC contracts within the last 7 months.

You're very welcome to post your experiences, just realize what you've done is not realistic for most people and you are not an expert on the subject of DVC rentals. You obviously enjoy the chase and I bet you've had a lot of rejections as well. If we continue this, I'd suggest we do it by direct email.

 

[fkj2]

The thing is that vacationing to WDW is an expensive proposition regardless of where you stay.

No one likes a great bargain better than me but if you're going to spend all the money that a vacation to WDW requires, it bewilders me as to why anyone who is renting 80 to even 150 points and wants to stay in a great resort would haggle about $1-2 per point.

I've seen far more people looking for that great $7-8 point bargain fail to get the time or resort they really wanted. I guess that disappointment must be worth those extra $2-3 savings per point.

I understand Dean's viewpoint; people have recently posted a request to rent points at the Rent/Trade board and offer a low sum and then seem offended when no member jumps at the opportunity to rent them points, make those calls, etc. to get them that dream vacation.

 

[wdwendyd]

I have been following this thread and now feel I have to say something. Anyone who has been reading this board for any length of time knows that Dean is a much respected poster. He has shown that he is not biased in his answers and his views are to be trusted and objective.
If someone offers you a good deal on a rental, I agree that that is fine. But I don't think it is right to purposely make DVC members feel insecure and then proceed to offer lower. That smacks of cheating a little old lady out of her treasures she has kept in the attic and doesn't really know their true value.
I agree that I will not lower my point rental charge to less than $10/point. That is good for me and all DVC members.

 

[mmmcq]

We have a very similar situation to yours and are right now considering an add-on to get us closer to the 400 points we'd like to have each year. We were a little short-sighted in '99 and went under 200 points because it cost us very little at the time. We can afford to do more now because my husband has a new stable job.

I haven't gone back to work after our third child, however and I have always looked at my income as providing for the "extra" stuff like vacations. So buying and add-on is hard to justify, but I know we want the points and we always feel like we're not getting exactly what we want when we make reservations (size of room 2BR v 1BR) because we don't have enough points. I also think the next 10-15 years is when we would get the most use personally for our points. So I'm thinking now vs later when prices are higher still and the end of the program is closer.

Although everyone has to analyze whether buying in or adding-on is appropriate financially for them, I've never looked at the purchase as being something we would have to break even on if we found ourselves in a position where we would have to sell. We would just sell them for the very best price we could in a resale with Disney or a broker.

For me the value that we've gained by owning the shares that I can't put a price on is the flexibility generally to make the reservations when we want to, the location of the resorts, definitely the larger size of the rooms and amenities (laundry, kitchen, etc) and so on. And we don't have to come up with the cash for each visit.