Is the "hail-mary" pass REALLY acceptable?

[curiouser]

Standing in line with your child and politely telling the people behind you that you need to step out and take said child to the bathroom and you'll be right back is MILES different than not standing in line at all.

As another poster said, standing in line is a learned behavior. If your kids are not ready to stand in lines at WDW don't take them or don't let them ride the rides. I was raised that with certain privileges come certain responsibilities. The privilege to go to any amusement/theme park meant the responsibility to wait my turn in line just the same as everything else.

 

[schlepsnort]

As another poster pointed out as parents, we are darned if we do and darned if we don't.

If I have my child stand in line and he decides to have one of his 'moments' I no doubt will come home to read on the DIS about how awful a parent I was because my child couldn't stand still and was acting out.
HOWEVER
If my same child has a 'moment' and my DH takes him aside (out of line for a talking to, a break, a drink) and then brings my now happy, smiling child back in line then I will come home to read on the DIS how awful a parent I was for 'cutting in line'

We've read the UnOfficial Guide and have taken what we've read as a suggestion to put into our mental arsenals of ways to handle our kids in Disney. If the need arises we will use it. I honestly do not care what others think because quite honestly when will I ever see these people again? I am very respectful of other people but they also need to respect that I have small children whose needs spontaneously arise and need to be resolved fairly quickly before total nuclear meltdown occurs. I do teach my children to wait and delay self gratification but I also know that they are only 4 and 2 and therefore should not be held to the same standards as an adult of waiting for 45 minutes in a crowded space and act like a complete angel.

To the OP I say do what you need to do to have a magical vacation and don't worry so much about what others may think. It's not like they are the ones taking care of your kids!

 

[KelsiesMommy]

I've done this at DL, mainly in the line for Peter Pan. My 20 month old has a hard time waiting at times, usually in THIS particular line. I generally get in the line and if she's acting up, then I leave with her and my mom or DH (whoever is with me) stays in line with my 3 y.o. I get out at a convenient spot, and try to hop back in where the turnstile is. Never had a problem, but then again, I start out in the line, and only leave if necessary

 

[TinkNH]

When I read that and the 'chuck bubba relay' I thought it was not such a good idea, and do not plan to use it with DD4. I do however have no issue with ppl leaving the line for a potty break as I stated in anothe rthread about line cutting. As I know it will probably happen at least once on the trip for us I also wouldn't care if other ppl used these strategies....I just prefer not too. But I am also working hard with this kid on skills in patience, and turn taking so I see waiting in lines as a chance to do a little teaching

Besides, the rides that ppl will be most likely to do these things are Dumbo, Winnie the Pooh etc..not EE or Space mountain..so there should be lots of little ones, and ppl should understand

 

[Judge Fudge]

Great to hear a book advocates the Brazillian method of touring.

 

[Lizziejane]

I'm not sure I really consider it line-cutting. Let's face it, either way, you'll end up on the ride at the same time whether the kids are actually physically standing in front of you or not. However, I don't think it's fair to others in line because those behind you would never know how long they realistically have to wait in line, because dozens or parents/kids are re-appearing in front of them.

How about we teach our kids that all good things come to those who wait... patiently...respectfully...quietly. Any other way just encourages them to throw tantrums, stomp their feet and act like spoiled brats. If my kids had a "moment" in line, they'd get a warning...keep it up...we're out of here. And I meant it! That simple.

 

[mattsdragon]

As a 25+ year Youth Development Professional, this topic hits a nerve with me. I am reading more and more on these boards and in books like the one you mentioned, parents stating that their kids cannot wait patiently in line, therefore they resort to tactics similar to this one you are talking about.
Children are by nature fidgety. Waiting in line or waiting your turn is a learned behavior, not one that comes naturally. Parents are not doing their kids a favor by avoiding lines or waits. Kids learn by experiencing. Waiting in line is a learning experience.
But now you have parents going out of their way to ensure their kids are never discomforted in anyway. They feel the necessity to install a DVD player in their car so the kids are not bored during the ten minute drive to the grocery store.
I recently saw that a chain of grocery stores is test marketing carts that parents can rent that have a built in DVD and video game system to entertain the kids while mom is shopping.
If children never experience the discomfort of waiting in line or waiting their turn, they will never learn patience.
I can not think of a better place than Disney for children to experience the discomfort of waiting in a line and the reward for their patience. Parents should explain to their kids "If you want to ride Dumbo you will have to wait patiently in line." The child then knows what is expected and he/she is rewarded if they wait patiently. If the child becomes too fidgety, she/he should be corrected. If they continue the inappropriate behavior, the parent should remove them from the line and explain that the reason they can not ride is because they were not able to wait patiently.
In addition children to need to learn concepts such as "fairness". Is it fair that other people have to wait in line and they don't?
Sorry for the soap box, but like I said, this issue hits a nerve with me.

This is the best explanation against this practice I've ever heard and I can't believe some parent's still don't think there is anything wrong with this behavior.

Nobody is saying that leaving a potty break is inexcusable and deserves a place at the back of the line. People are generally understandable of this behavior. But if you would rather use this method to avoid a "moment", I really have to question what you are teaching your child. Somebody else said something about raising spoiled brats. I know for a fact my parents would never have considered this tactic, just as I knew better than to have a "moment" because I was bored and antsy. But that too is a topic for another thread.

And finally, yes, it is your responsibility to consider other people, it always is. It's called courtesy, which, at last check, was still a virtuous trait (so is spellcheck, sorry about my atrocious spelling).

 

[allisonswonderland]

It is line cutting! Sorry folks and like and earlier poster said it is part of life- I read that post and I thought my sentiments exactly - I stood in line at Disney my whole life my dad never stood there while mom and brother and I did something else, yes lines stink but lines exist in life... at school walking to the lunch room, on the play ground and just in general - no I am not a parent yet, but I am around small children as an aunt, my mother is an elementary school teacher and I have been a head swim coach for 10 years with 120-140 kids on the team each year so I do have experience - in addition I have also been a college instructor for 2 years and I see the problems there -students don't show up for an exam and they just don't get why they can't take it when it is convenient for them..... just think about it. Make your kids stand in line and when they throw a fit then take them back to the room because they are tired- kids to get cranky but they have to get used to doing things they do not want to do -

 

[Brian Noble]

My kids wait in lines. But, I'm also the meanest parent in the universe. (Though, on a good day, my kids tell me that that's not true; rather, I'm "just really mean.")

 

[cosmo531]

the easiest way to solve this is just to make all of the WDW parks 21 and up. Everyone stands in line. No excuses. No children "melting down" or "having moments".




sorry, that was in jest...its been a weird day and we're going for a day trip to WDW tomorrow...just felt like being Goofy (or maybe Pluto).

 

[Mariposa]

As another poster pointed out as parents, we are darned if we do and darned if we don't.

If I have my child stand in line and he decides to have one of his 'moments' I no doubt will come home to read on the DIS about how awful a parent I was because my child couldn't stand still and was acting out.
HOWEVER
If my same child has a 'moment' and my DH takes him aside (out of line for a talking to, a break, a drink) and then brings my now happy, smiling child back in line then I will come home to read on the DIS how awful a parent I was for 'cutting in line'

We've read the UnOfficial Guide and have taken what we've read as a suggestion to put into our mental arsenals of ways to handle our kids in Disney. If the need arises we will use it. I honestly do not care what others think because quite honestly when will I ever see these people again? I am very respectful of other people but they also need to respect that I have small children whose needs spontaneously arise and need to be resolved fairly quickly before total nuclear meltdown occurs. I do teach my children to wait and delay self gratification but I also know that they are only 4 and 2 and therefore should not be held to the same standards as an adult of waiting for 45 minutes in a crowded space and act like a complete angel.

To the OP I say do what you need to do to have a magical vacation and don't worry so much about what others may think. It's not like they are the ones taking care of your kids!

Actually, honestly, I'd rather have a kid be admonished in front of me or have a "moment" than to explain to my kid that, for some unknown reason, that kid doesn't have to wait in line like everyone else.

Go ahead and plan on using whatever method you feel you need to use. Just don't be mad when other people won't let your husband and kids skip them in a line they'd never been in to begin with. You may not care what they think, but they have the right not to care what you want, either.

I, personally, will not let anyone past me that hadn't been in the line previously. (Clearly, if I've just gotten in line I wouldn't know, but otherwise... nope.)

 

[ArielsMommy]

As a 25+ year Youth Development Professional, this topic hits a nerve with me. I am reading more and more on these boards and in books like the one you mentioned, parents stating that their kids cannot wait patiently in line, therefore they resort to tactics similar to this one you are talking about.
Children are by nature fidgety. Waiting in line or waiting your turn is a learned behavior, not one that comes naturally. Parents are not doing their kids a favor by avoiding lines or waits. Kids learn by experiencing. Waiting in line is a learning experience.
But now you have parents going out of their way to ensure their kids are never discomforted in anyway. They feel the necessity to install a DVD player in their car so the kids are not bored during the ten minute drive to the grocery store.
I recently saw that a chain of grocery stores is test marketing carts that parents can rent that have a built in DVD and video game system to entertain the kids while mom is shopping.
If children never experience the discomfort of waiting in line or waiting their turn, they will never learn patience.
I can not think of a better place than Disney for children to experience the discomfort of waiting in a line and the reward for their patience. Parents should explain to their kids "If you want to ride Dumbo you will have to wait patiently in line." The child then knows what is expected and he/she is rewarded if they wait patiently. If the child becomes too fidgety, she/he should be corrected. If they continue the inappropriate behavior, the parent should remove them from the line and explain that the reason they can not ride is because they were not able to wait patiently.
In addition children to need to learn concepts such as "fairness". Is it fair that other people have to wait in line and they don't?
Sorry for the soap box, but like I said, this issue hits a nerve with me.

I agree with you wholeheartily. We have explained to our DD (4 1/2)-this Dec. will be her 10th trip to WDW-that waiting in line patiently is just another way of using your good manners. She has never been antsy at all. Our explanation was reinforced by the mini-show on Playhouse Disney's "Good Manners With Max."

 

[robinb]

Well ... I had absolutely NO PROBLEM with using the "Hail Mary Pass" when my DD was younger. There was no way she could stand in a 30 minute line for Dumbo and it was much better for all concerned that I stand in line and my DH would take her somewhere else to wait until we reached that last bend in the line. The people behind me were never made to wait any longer becuase I took up the same number of Dumbos as my entire family of 2 adults and one small child. No harm, no foul.

This is yet another example of everyone following their own Moral Compass. Mine says it's OK for a 2 year old to Hail Mary into Dumbo. Yours may think it's a good life lesson for your 2 year old child to wait. Neither one is RIGHT or WRONG. We are just different.

 

[ceopamom3]

very likely the most line cutting I have seen in my 18 + trips since 2006. Whole parties sending one ahead. At Test Track they had filled the qeues for the briefing area and stopped the stand-by line. Then two groups of at least 4 yelled that they were with someone up ahead. The cast members let them through complaining all along about the ploy, and how often it was being done.

I do generally let people by in line when they push past with the old "excuse me"... I must say though, that my husband did stop a woman using this tactic at Small World (yes just last night... that was us!).... This was likely the worst thing I have seen... First, this man and a few others dashed in front of us into the line (with only a 5 minute wait)... the women with a child in stroller nearly runs us over in her haste to park the stroller and join the group. Then, the woman (who is behind us) hands the toddler down over the railing (from the top of the ride down the sloping ramp - yes it was likely 5 or more feet down) to the awaiting child grabber in front.. Then she begins her excuse me through the line carrying a very large cooler bag as well. My husband and I let her through, but stopped the second woman in her party a few minutes later just for the priciple of the matter. The women ended up pushing past my husband's arm (and my DH is a large man). Of course, we were almost on the ride at this time, and we told the CM there who did nothing. A pointless effort, but after 6 days of this nonsense - it wears thin.

This stuff is plain wrong. I must say I completely understand the unexpected potty break. We had a women and toddler dash into Muppets, and the poor little girl was still fixing up her undies! My children know they need to wait, and be respectful and courteous. If the line is longer than we like - we move along to another attraction.

These things happen everywhere, from someone in traffic cutting you off - to someone jumping ahead in line at the grocery. I guess I expect more from mankind at WDW. We take our humanity with us wherever we go...

 

[I Love Pluto]

I have never heard the term "hail-mary" pass before. It's cute!

I do have an opinion on the subject. How will kids learn patience if we don't teach them? It takes a lot of patience in the super market when you're tired and rushed after work, and you have to wait in line for a long time.

If we don't teach kids how to wait for things, what kind of adults will they become?

 

[Laurajean1014]

Some people would find it disrespectful for small children to be antsy in line and think it far more respectful to take them out of the que and let them run around while someone waits in line for them.

If I were a parent of a young child I would feel "darn'd if you do and darn'n if you don't"

It is the parents responsibility to keep the kids calm and entertained during the wait (it is a part of life). The parents need to show some creativity in regards to having the children wait.

When I was little and waiting in line at WDW (when the lines were hours long and not minutes), the family would talk, make up games (I SPY), discuss the game plan for the next set of rides, etc.

Now, the lines go so much faster (along with fastpass) that it's not as big as an issue than when I was very young. With my son, we let him play with a toy or showed him pics from the last attraction with our digital camara. We also allowed him to take pics (and then delete them).

Some rides will allow you to eat an ice cream or drink while waiting. That always helped pass the time.

There are lots of things to do with kids without putting them aside. Besides, what you on a bench could probably be done while on line.

 

[Laurajean1014]

As another poster said, standing in line is a learned behavior. If your kids are not ready to stand in lines at WDW don't take them or don't let them ride the rides. I was raised that with certain privileges come certain responsibilities. The privilege to go to any amusement/theme park meant the responsibility to wait my turn in line just the same as everything else.

Well stated.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I am ok if an adult takes a kid out of line to go to the bathroom, but to never be in line is line cutting and is wrong.

 

[DiszyDeanette]

Outstanding!!

As a 25+ year Youth Development Professional, this topic hits a nerve with me. I am reading more and more on these boards and in books like the one you mentioned, parents stating that their kids cannot wait patiently in line, therefore they resort to tactics similar to this one you are talking about.
Children are by nature fidgety. Waiting in line or waiting your turn is a learned behavior, not one that comes naturally. Parents are not doing their kids a favor by avoiding lines or waits. Kids learn by experiencing. Waiting in line is a learning experience.
But now you have parents going out of their way to ensure their kids are never discomforted in anyway. They feel the necessity to install a DVD player in their car so the kids are not bored during the ten minute drive to the grocery store.
I recently saw that a chain of grocery stores is test marketing carts that parents can rent that have a built in DVD and video game system to entertain the kids while mom is shopping.
If children never experience the discomfort of waiting in line or waiting their turn, they will never learn patience.
I can not think of a better place than Disney for children to experience the discomfort of waiting in a line and the reward for their patience. Parents should explain to their kids "If you want to ride Dumbo you will have to wait patiently in line." The child then knows what is expected and he/she is rewarded if they wait patiently. If the child becomes too fidgety, she/he should be corrected. If they continue the inappropriate behavior, the parent should remove them from the line and explain that the reason they can not ride is because they were not able to wait patiently.
In addition children to need to learn concepts such as "fairness". Is it fair that other people have to wait in line and they don't?
Sorry for the soap box, but like I said, this issue hits a nerve with me.

 

[KatheeME]

I think some are understanding, but most not. For me, I don't like it all. If someone is in line and must leave the line for the bathroom that is different to me, but to not be in line at all... yes I know it's hard for young children, but when our girls were small we had items in the old backpack to entertain them, and they knew before we went that lines were a part of the magic!