Is it just me??? Compensation??

[married2grumpy]

If I book a 3 day vacation at WDW, and don't get to visit the parks one day because of horrible weather, do I expect compensation from Disney? No. There are risks in everything we do. You adjust and still figure out a way to enjoy your vacation.

I agree with you 100%. My DH said the same thing to me last night. We too have taken a cruise where we missed a port. It was disappointing but we never once thought of compensation. Not even for the port charges we paid.

 

[smchan]

For my DH and I there was disappointment because of the fact that we couldn't get off the boat- but in all honesty, this alone did not account for all of our unhappiness with our cruise experience last week. It was compounded by many, many other experiences throughout the week. Most of those things we alone, experienced. It was a culmination of these experiences that prompts me to write to DCL and voice my disappointment.

Any chance of a CM named Carol being a part of your disappointment? She was working in the terminal during embarkation for my 12/11/04 cruise and was VERY rude to my wife. To the point that my wife broke down in tears once we were onboard.

I called her out by name in both the feedback card onboard and in the online survey I was asked to fill out. She has no place working for Disney, in my opinion.

Sam

 

[smchan]

Since they are having no problems selling cruises and are making money, this lack of compensation seems to be a proven good business decision over the past five years. If something changes, perhaps this will no longer be a good decision.

I may have missed it, but would you tell me where to find the P&L statements for DCL in the Disney annual report? The only thing I found was anecdotal evidence stating west coast cruises sold out in record time.

Sam

 

[karebear1]

No Sam- never experienced any CM named Carol. But I sure am sorry for your wife's experience. There's no excuse for anyone to treat someone so badly that it would bring them to tears.

 

[dwkwootton]

DancingBear, I can't tell if you are being belligerent or if you are really having difficulty understanding something pretty simple.

Could you please explain how my disappointment in the adult activities suggest that I do not appreciate that Disney tried to occupy the kids?

What part of my saying Disney expected to go to port in January, when posters here felt I shouldn't expect to go, confused you?

Just what don't you get that the week was so strained that even the CM's had enough? How come you aren't flipping out on the CM's that were disloyal to their Captain by criticizing his driving? Maybe they were venting? Is that ok with you? Is it all dollars and cents to you? Its ok if I'm miffed, but not ok if I think a future discount is in order? Should all the hurricane cruisers return the vouchers they received?

 

[karebear1]

dwkwooten- I am in total agreement with you as far as activities for adults were concerned. They were sadly lacking. And, while it is really wonderful that the kids were really catered to on this cruise- the paying adults, with no children aboard , also deserved that same kind of attention.

 

[smchan]

No Sam- never experienced any CM named Carol. But I sure am sorry for your wife's experience. There's no excuse for anyone to treat someone so badly that it would bring them to tears.

No need to apologize. Wasn't your fault.

I'll probably sail DCL again and, if Carol is there when I do, I'll simply avoid her. If we have another problem, then we're talking to her supervisor. Mind you, this is coming from a sweet, polite southern boy.

Sam

 

[krystyana]

I have been reading these threads just observing. I believe that people are entitled to be disappointed when a vacation they have saved, worked for, and anticipated goes badly. Do they deserve to be compensated? I'm not sure, I wasn't there...do they have a right to complain?...sure....But to compare being compensated for a poor vacation to a tradgedy such as the one the tsunami victims have and are enduring is utterly ridiculous. How can anyone compare their right to be compensated for a vacation to a situation where people have lost their homes, all their worldly possessions, and their loved ones and are in need of food and just basic supplies for survival? Wow...talk about a need for a reality check.....sorry if i offend anyone but i found that statement offensive.

 

[DancingBear]

DancingBear, I can't tell if you are being belligerent or if you are really having difficulty understanding something pretty simple.

Could you please explain how my disappointment in the adult activities suggest that I do not appreciate that Disney tried to occupy the kids?

I meant that by occupying those kids they are keeping them out of the way of you adults, so you have some benefit from that.

What part of my saying Disney expected to go to port in January, when posters here felt I shouldn't expect to go, confused you?

No confusion. First, those other posters weren't saying you shouldn't expect to get to a port (after all, the success rate in reaching the ports is very high in i any month according to the unofficial stats posted on this board); rather, that you shouldn't feel entitled to compensation just because of these events.

Just what don't you get that the week was so strained that even the CM's had enough? How come you aren't flipping out on the CM's that were disloyal to their Captain by criticizing his driving? Maybe they were venting? Is that ok with you?

I could care less if they were venting. For that matter, I could care less whether or not you get compensation from DCL--as I said either here or in one of the parallel threads, DCL may choose to do so for its own business reasons. I just don't think you are entitled to the compensation based on the complaints I've seen posted here--that is, you got what you paid for, whether you were rightfully disappointed or not.

 

[smchan]

Lloyd - one other question. Your table shows 2 total misses in January. Does that include the 1-15-05 cruise? Also, mind giving us the September detail? (How many misses in September were from last year?)

Thanks,
Sam

 

[smchan]

A statistician could probably tell you with what degree of certainty these numbers would project over all cruises. I'm not a statistician, just someone who likely has too much time on his hands....I do know that for the years 2002-2004, I've accounted for 73% of all sailings, and the numbers are pretty similar -- 97% for the Magic, 94% for the Wonder.

So I'm starting to beat a dead horse, but I like numbers and I know this was not an insignificant task of keeping tracking of CC dockings.

It's been 17-18 years since I took a statistics class as part of my computer science regiment, so I may be way off base... but my calculated margin of error is 4.8%. However, I think the reliability of this calculation depends on the skew of your data. If the data is biased, then accuracy of your results goes south as sample size increases. See "Dewey Wins!" for more information.

Sam

 

[debtman7]

To compare missing a port to the airline not getting you to your distination doesn't work. You buy a plane ticket to get from one point to another, plain and simple. And if they don't get you there are the flight you booked due to bad weather or engine problems or whatever they either offer your a refund or place you on another plane and get to from point A to point B at some point.
When you buy a cruise you are buying however many days on a cruise ship along with travel to a few points.

That is your view of what a cruise is. See, the problem is, you are completely right. For you. However, you cannot sit there and tell everyone else that they cruise to enjoy the "cruise experience" and not to visit a port. Someone posted in this thread or one of the others that if you get all upset about missing a port, you are missing the whole point of a cruise. WRONG. Everyone has their own reasons for going on a cruise, and they are ALL valid. There is no such thing as a single cruise experience or reason for cruising.

If you are on a cruise simply to enjoy the ship for 4 days, then you will have gotten your money's worth even if you don't dock at any ports. Good for you! If, however, you are on a cruise to visit some destination, that will not be true. Case in point, my parents last year took a cruise to Hawaii. Did they go to enjoy the cruise? No, they really wanted to go to hawaii and a cruise was a nice way to get there. In this case, getting to the destination was their major concern.

For me, there are two big reasons why I am paying a premium for a disney cruise. First, the disney theme (which my daughter loves). Secondly, the private island. I consider a portion of the money I am paying as a premium to visit this destination, as it's the only way to get there and one of the things that competing cruise lines do not offer. I would not be willing to pay the same for this cruise without castaway cay. If you would, that's fine. For me, I wouldn't. Therefore, if we didn't make it, I would expect some sort of compensation and would try to get it. I wouldn't be mad at Disney. I don't expect Disney to do anything unsafe. I don't expect them to guarantee that I get there. But, I do consider part of the price as a charge to get me to that destination, and I would expect that part of the price to be refunded or credited towards another cruise.

As for the legal requirements, I would just point out that just because a contract says that they may not be able to dock at ports, this does not mean that they may not have a liability. Our legal system is based on English Common Law which has a lot of wacky little quirks. One of these, very important in contract law, is the concept of reasonable expectations. The basic idea of this is that even if a contract says that one party may not be able to do something, if it can be shown that the average person would have reasonable expectations of it being done, then the party is in violation of the contract and is liable for damages.

I don't suggest anyone sue Disney, it's not an open and shut issue and only a judge could decide the outcome. I am merely pointing out that saying the contract has a disclaimer about not making port and so you have no right to compensation is a naive understanding of the law.

 

[Ericandblueboy]

I have been reading these threads just observing. I believe that people are entitled to be disappointed when a vacation they have saved, worked for, and anticipated goes badly. Do they deserve to be compensated? I'm not sure, I wasn't there...do they have a right to complain?...sure....But to compare being compensated for a poor vacation to a tradgedy such as the one the tsunami victims have and are enduring is utterly ridiculous. How can anyone compare their right to be compensated for a vacation to a situation where people have lost their homes, all their worldly possessions, and their loved ones and are in need of food and just basic supplies for survival? Wow...talk about a need for a reality check.....sorry if i offend anyone but i found that statement offensive.

The comparision is supposed to be ridiculous but the point is they are both weather related events. While we show compassion and give compensation to victims of the Tsunami disaster, we say to the people on a bad cruise tough luck.

 

[cjsmith]

That is your view of what a cruise is. See, the problem is, you are completely right. For you. However, you cannot sit there and tell everyone else that they cruise to enjoy the "cruise experience" and not to visit a port. Someone posted in this thread or one of the others that if you get all upset about missing a port, you are missing the whole point of a cruise. WRONG. Everyone has their own reasons for going on a cruise, and they are ALL valid. There is no such thing as a single cruise experience or reason for cruising.

If you are on a cruise simply to enjoy the ship for 4 days, then you will have gotten your money's worth even if you don't dock at any ports. Good for you! If, however, you are on a cruise to visit some destination, that will not be true. Case in point, my parents last year took a cruise to Hawaii. Did they go to enjoy the cruise? No, they really wanted to go to hawaii and a cruise was a nice way to get there. In this case, getting to the destination was their major concern.
QUOTE]

You have completely taken apart what I wrote. If you read my quote is says "When you buy a cruise you are buying however many days on a cruise ship along with travel to a few points." You pay for a cruise and travel to a few points, which are the ports. I don't take the cruise for the cruise itself, I love the ports as well. After all, that's how I chose my crusie, by what ports we're visiting. I get off at every port and spend the whole day in the ports, not on the cruise ship. However, if a cruise line misses a port or changes a port due to weather, then that's what they have to do, they have no choice.
I certainly don't expect to sue someone or get something out of it. When you cruise, mother nature is in charge most of the time, not the captain. If the cruise industry, especially Disney had to start giving back money because they missed a port due to something completely out of control, the prices would skyrocket. Disney is already very pricey, do you honestly want it to go up? That's exactly what would happen. Disney is a business out to make money, it's their sole purpose as their not a non-profit company.

Grenada and Venezula were the main reasons that I booked my cruise and I didn't get to them. Nothing was open to be able to enjoy one of our ports as it was a National HOliday that day, decided that very morning. Princess did not add things on their patter for us to do and most people had nothing to do all day. There were no cabs running, no place to shop, cancelled tours, restaurants closed, etc. Basically even though we were at a port, the port was not operational like we had been promised. They substituted Isla Margarita for a couple of hours in place of 12 hours in Venezula, we had to back on board by 11:30 am. You had no time for anything and the port itself was far away from town, we did nothing here. However, I still tried to enjoy myself and never once thought of complaining to Princess demanding compensation.

And as far as saying that no other cruise lines offer a private island is wrong. They may not offer Castaway Cay as that's Disney owned, but most of the major cruise lines have their own private island. Our friends that cruised with us actually prefer Royal Caribbean's private island over Disney's. They just didn't understand what all the fuss was about. Would I be upset if we missed the island, yes as I love it. We did miss it on our first day on one of our 4 night cruises and made it the 2nd day. We were told that we may not make it the 2nd day as well, but the Captain would try once again. While I was thankful that we did, I still would have been very understanding if we didn't. I watched him making the attempts the first day and he tried his best. It was beyond his control.

As far as reasonable expectations, even if you miss a point, Disney has fulfilled your reasonable expectations by attempting to bring you to your port and when not, making changes to what is going on during the day. Reasonable expectations are just that, reasonable, not high. Good luck suing Disney over not making Castaway Cay, Disney's attorneys would have a field day with this. If Disney ever lost money on this, I'm sure that Castaway Cay would be taken off the cruise list as a port and instead worded that it may be an option.

I never said that people shouldn't be disappointed, you should. You dream about your vacation and it didn't turn out how you expected. If you picked to go to St Thomas and enjoy the Ritz Carlton for a week and it rained hard each and every day so therefore you couldn't swim, enjoy the beach, fish, go boating, or really explore in the jeep you rented, what would you do? Would you expect that the Ritz give you money back? No, you would be very disappointed and upset over the money you had spent, but I highly doubt you would go after the resort for your money back. And I highly doubt the resort would come up with things to do.

Disney is only willing to offer so much out of their pockets. Eventually this will all funnel down to us, the consumers. The more they pay out, the higher our cruises prices will go. So while I may be disappointed, I would rather be able to take another cruise again and not have the prices go so high that they're out of my reach.

 

[dwkwootton]

Ericandblueboy, I think everyone realized that you were simply making a point and not being cold hearted. Maybe they were caught up in the unnecessary arguement that ensued over the 1-15 cruise. I can't imagine any reasonable person thinking you meant anything of the kind.

Debtman7, your thoughts are so well put and I appreciate that. Plus, missing two ports and having mostly bad weather all week was only part of the equation. Of all weeks, Disney was short staffed because 2 of the 6 CM's in charge of onboard activities were out sick with the flu. There were several other problems on this cruise that did not occur during my last 7 Disney cruises but no tolerance was shown to go so far as to discuss these things. One would think that if as many folks as are saying there was a problem, there was a problem. Anyway point is, all in all, made for one bad situation. I'll never understand why this unfortunate fact has caused people to show their lack of compassion in such a disrespectful and accusatory manner.

 

[Lloyd Dobler]

However, I think the reliability of this calculation depends on the skew of your data. If the data is biased, then accuracy of your results goes south as sample size increases.

Sam,

I don't know how the data could be biased (I admit to not understanding the term in this context). It is what it is, the ship either docked or it didn't. I don't have any axe to grind here. The question of how often Castaway Cay is missed is one that comes up quite a bit. I just figured I could help answer it by keeping track of what's reported here. If by biased, you mean that only successful dockings are reported here, my experience is that this isn't the case. As is evidenced in the past week, people aren't shy about reporting missing Castaway Cay. I have some experience with customer service, and my instinct is that people who have an unpleasant experience are about 4 times as likely to tell someone else about it (I actually have read studies to this effect, but cannot cite them, so let's just call it my instinct and treat it as opinion).

Also, wouldn't a larger sample size give a higher degree of confidence? For example, I've accounted for almost 80% of the cruises in 2004. Wouldn't you have a lower degree of error for that year's 93% rating than with say, 2002's 97%, a year for which I've only accounted for 61% of the cruises.

In any case, in my table, the percentages are up to date, i.e. they include last week's miss. The January total is not. I just forgot to update that column, I'll edit it to reflect the right numbers.

The three January misses I've recorded were 1/15/05, 1/18/03, and 1/13/01. The September misses were as follows:

Magic:

9/7/04
9/27/04

Wonder:

9/27/01
9/2/04
9/9/04
9/12/04
9/27/04
9/30/04

(Note that the dates refer to the cruise's embarkation date, not the date of the call. It was too hard to track when the Wonder would alternate a day at sea with a call at Freeport, or occasionally miss on Tuesday but make it on Wednesday)

I am certain there were a couple other misses during this time which I can't confirm.

 

[dwkwootton]

cjsmith, when I vacationed in Jamaica (not a cruise) the resort offered a good weather guarantee. If the weather was poor the entire day, you were given a voucher for a complimentary day to use in the future. I hadn't known this when I booked, never asked for anything since the resort bent over backwards with games, goodies & activities all day long, so I was shocked at check-out when I was handed (with a warm and friendly smile) two vouchers each for a complimentary day to use on a future stay.

Was good business on their part too. Hadn't planned to return there for a couple years, but changed our minds and went the next year to make use of the vouchers. Paid for 5 days and was thrilled to enjoy 2 complimentary days.

Sometimes its best not to speak with such authority when you do not know whether or not you are correct.

 

[cjsmith]

Ericandblueboy, I think everyone realized that you were simply making a point and not being cold hearted. Maybe they were caught up in the unnecessary arguement that ensued over the 1-15 cruise. I can't imagine any reasonable person thinking you meant anything of the kind.

Debtman7, your thoughts are so well put and I appreciate that. Plus, missing two ports and having mostly bad weather all week was only part of the equation. Of all weeks, Disney was short staffed because 2 of the 6 CM's in charge of onboard activities were out sick with the flu. There were several other problems on this cruise that did not occur during my last 7 Disney cruises but no tolerance was shown to go so far as to discuss these things. One would think that if as many folks as are saying there was a problem, there was a problem. Anyway point is, all in all, made for one bad situation. I'll never understand why this unfortunate fact has caused people to show their lack of compassion in such a disrespectful and accusatory manner.

I don't think that a lot of people have shown a lack of compassion, I just think that people while feeling sorry for everyone, just don't feel that compensation should be given. I for one worry that if DCL started giving compensation out left and right for missed ports and maybe ill CM's, then the prices of this already high priced cruiseline would get out of control. I am truly sorry that people missed ports, I share their disappointment having had the same thing just happen to me in October.
I just think that people expect so much of out Disney and sometimes their expectations may be set too high in some areas. One observation that I've made is that on crusiecritic I didn't notice anybody asking for compensation on the other cruise lines when things didn't go well and ports were missed during hurricanes or any other time of year. Yes people shared their disappointment but never once did I read a post about getting compensated. I think on a while Disney has been very good about dealing with port changes, cruise date changes, etc. and I feel that people expect Disney to make things perfect and when they don't, they feel very let down.
When you book a cruise you do take a real chance that Mother Nature will screw around with your plans. That's why it's clearly written on the documents and your cruise contract that ports may be missed or substitued. Disappointment with anything is never easy to handle, especially if it's a trip of a lifetime. While as long as Disney did everything reasonable to try and make it up to me by giving me an enjoyable day by adding programs to the daily activites, then though I would be disappointed, I would never expect compensation for something that was clearly out of their control.

 

[onthatday]

Actually, the holidays are also BIG. They always fill up. High Demand.
The demand has to do with weather and attendance. There are plenty of year round schools, international students, etc that do not have the traditional school track of many US schools.

Disney makes it really clear to their winter passengers that they may not be able to make some ports due to weather they can not control.

I agree that the lower cost is due to less desirable weather.

 

[cjsmith]

cjsmith, when I vacationed in Jamaica (not a cruise) the resort offered a good weather guarantee. If the weather was poor the entire day, you were given a voucher for a complimentary day to use in the future. I hadn't known this when I booked, never asked for anything since the resort bent over backwards with games, goodies & activities all day long, so I was shocked at check-out when I was handed (with a warm and friendly smile) two vouchers each for a complimentary day to use on a future stay.

Was good business on their part too. Hadn't planned to return there for a couple years, but changed our minds and went the next year to make use of the vouchers. Paid for 5 days and was thrilled to enjoy 2 complimentary days.

Sometimes its best not to speak with such authority when you do not know whether or not you are correct.

Where did I speak with such authority, when I said that I highly DOUBT that the resort would give money back? The word was doubt, not guarantee. If I was speaking with authority I would have said that I can guarantee you that resorts wouldn't give you money back, but I said the work doubt.
It's great that you were given coupons to come back, very few places today offer this good weather guarantee. We travel a lot and in my experience I have never been given anything when we have had crappy weather and unfortunately it's happened a lot. You were very lucky but on a whole this is probably, again probably not absolutely, rare that a resort will give coupons good for you to come back just because you had rain.
If Disney cruise line had to start giving coupons for return use to everyone who missed Castaway Cay or anything other port due to weather or if there were high seas, the price would so be passed onto us very quickly. And what about to those cruisers who had to deal with high seas for most of the cruise, believe me 20 foot swells were horrible and I spent the last 2 days of our cruise sick because of them! And what about for those cruiser who actually make it to CC, but it's so cold, bitter and rainy that they can't really enjoy the island at all. That would be a huge disappointment to be there but not be able to use it. DCL would have to start giving out vouchers or compensations for these as well then.
Sorry we don't agree on things, but I guess that's what makes life interesting, differences of opinions!!