Is "gypped" a racist term?

[Cool-Beans]

Re: "Jewed him down." I'd be proud to have a saying about being a good businessman named after me. If people said, "I Beanied him down" I'd be thrilled to be named as the person who was well-known for getting the better end of the deal.

Kind of like when people say Americans are like John Wayne in a John Wayne movie. I don't think the people who use it as an insult are actually being as insulting as they'd like to be. I'm always kind of proud when I hear us compared to a John Wayne movie.

But I realize the people who say it do intend it as an insult. Since it is considered an insult, I don't use it myself. I rarely hear anyone say it, though.

 

[Charade]

IMO, these are not racist terms, but the person using them is prejudiced.

Merriam Webster: 1. preconceived judgement or opinion

2. an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

3. an instance of such judgement or opinion

4. an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics.

A racist is definitely prejudiced, but being prejudiced doesn't automatically make you a racist. Just an ignorant (in the sense of not knowing better) person.

Where I grew up, "going Dutch" was a common term used when young people "dated". It had NO MALICE behind it and only meant paying separately.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Hmmm ... I know some Gypsies (and btw they are alive and well and there are many communities of them here in the US) who might say they are a race, or at least an ethnicity.

I agree that most people don't know that "gypped" refers particularly to Gypsies, who at one time were presumed to be devious thieves (not racist??? ). It does seem, to me at least, that once you know that's what it refers to, that it might be a good idea to try to work on substituting some other term. Why would you want to deliberately try to walk around saying nasty things about an entire group of people (some of whom you may run into without knowing )

It's interesting that so many people think using the term is "no big deal", especially considering that these exact sorts of racist ideas about Gypsies were actually what led to them almost being wiped out in the Holocaust, along with Jews and lots of other groups of people who weren't considered completely human or worthwhile human beings.

Do you wonder whether using the term "gypped" around an actual gypsy (I believe they now call themselves the Roma people) might ... in the light of the fact that this term isn't completely neutral but reflects a long history of racism and attempted genocide ... be ... just ... a wee bit offensive, racist, insensitive? Just a wee bit? Hmm...

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why so many people are so blissfully happy to walk around saying things like "gypped", "that's so gay", "jewed down", etc, etc, (assuming they have been informed that these terms might be problematic) when they know exactly why it might be extremely hurtful toward others? THis is not about being "sensitive" or "PC"... it's about trying to be a decent human being who doesn't go around saying horrific things just to get a rise out of others or just because you have the right to.

So hey ... here's an idea ... why don't we all try to work on being decent human beings for once?? I just think it might be a nice idea ...

At last some sense. Common decency is about as rare as common sense.

I get so burned when someone gets called for an insensitive remark and then goes on a "PC" rant as a defense. Thanks for your thoughtful comments and not "beanying out" on us. Nothing personal to any one on the board - just an expression we use hereabouts.

 

[MzDiz]

I live in an area with a high Dutch population. When we moved here, we actually had a real estate agent tell us that they were notoriously cheap. After living here for 15 years, I'll just say that I can see where the stereotype comes from.

I don't use any terms that I know are insensitive. I just think it's the decent thing to do, it has nothing to do with being PC. I wouldn't dream of using the term "gypped".

As far as gypsies go in other countries, it's my understanding that it's a catch 22 situation. They are not allowed to buy or rent housing and they are not given opportunities for employment, so they fall back on working under the table at odd jobs and living out of their caravans. Treat people like criminals and they act like criminals.

Anyone interested in the gypsies journey should check out a movie called "Latcho Drom", if you can find it. It's a good account of the modern gypsy's heartbreak and struggle.

 

[froglady]

Where I grew up, "going Dutch" was a common term used when young people "dated". It had NO MALICE behind it and only meant paying separately.

It has been stressed in this thread that people frequently use common phrases that were once derogatory, but have lost their "sting" over the years, because they are no longer conciously associated with a certain group of people, nor does the average person believe that a group really has the negative trait described, or they don't consider that trait to be negative.

Dutch Treat arose at time when inviting someone out, and asking her (it was frequently used in a dating situation) to pay her own way was considered a breech of ettiquette, and implied stinginess.

It has morphed into something much more common and benign, so people aren't offended by it.

I grew up calling a sandwich made of pita bread (which we also called Syrian bread, for some unknown reason) a Camel Rider. When I was an adult, and it was pointed out to me that it was prejudiced to assume that all Middle Easterners rode camels, I stopped using the phrase.

If someone else uses it, I just assume that they haven't offended anyone, or they haven't really thought about it's origins.

 

[pepperw23]

I agree that going "PC" is not the way to be, but at the same time I think it is just common decency not to use a lot of phrases that can be derogatory.

I agree. If you know something is offensive to someone then why bother to use it. I can understand not knowing. Using your previous post as an example: I never associated "That's gay" with gay people. My very best friend in the world who happens to be gay says it all the time...I wonder if she knows she is offending herself. (I am teasing)

I guess what I am getting at is, if you were a friend of mine and I knew that a certain phrase bothered you, I simply would not use it. It is just not a big deal, and it is not that PC garbage (which I agree some do go overboard with) it is just common courtesy.

Back on topic, I don't think gypped is racial. Up until two minutes ago I had no clue where it came from. If we as a country are going to start getting that out of control, maybe we just should not speak at all because lots of words have negative origins.

 

[smartestnumber5]

Re: "Jewed him down." I'd be proud to have a saying about being a good businessman named after me. If people said, "I Beanied him down" I'd be thrilled to be named as the person who was well-known for getting the better end of the deal.

Perhaps it's easy to say you'd be proud of a derogatory phrase like "Beanied him down" being aimed at the Beans, because for the Beans it would be nothing more than a derogatory phrase. But historically the sentiment that Jews are cheats and money-grubbers has not been simply a derogatory stereotype. Rhetoric about Jews as cheats and money-grubbers was a large part of the Nazi propaganda that led to the Holocaust; it is part of the attitude toward Jews that led to massive genocide against them. Surely no one could be proud of a stereotype that helped lead to the extermination of 2/3 of the Jews in Europe.

 

[Charade]

It has been stressed in this thread that people frequently use common phrases that were once derogatory, but have lost their "sting" over the years, because they are no longer conciously associated with a certain group of people, nor does the average person believe that a group really has the negative trait described, or they don't consider that trait to be negative.

Dutch Treat arose at time when inviting someone out, and asking her (it was frequently used in a dating situation) to pay her own way was considered a breech of ettiquette, and implied stinginess.

It has morphed into something much more common and benign, so people aren't offended by it.

I grew up calling a sandwich made of pita bread (which we also called Syrian bread, for some unknown reason) a Camel Rider. When I was an adult, and it was pointed out to me that it was prejudiced to assume that all Middle Easterners rode camels, I stopped using the phrase.

If someone else uses it, I just assume that they haven't offended anyone, or they haven't really thought about it's origins.

I've never heard of a Camel Rider sandwich but I googled it. It doesn't appear (at a quick glance) to be an offensive term. In fact, there's a place in Florida (maybe not in business anymore because the page doesn't load but google had a cache of it) called "Desert Sandwich Shop" with a "Camel Rider" sandwich on the menu.

Camel Rider Salami, Ham, Bologna, in Pita bread with Cheese, Crisp Lettuce, Juicy Tomatoes, Onions, Mayonnaise, Mustard, Banana Peppers and Pickles $3.85

This place http://www.nabeels.com/menu.html has a trade mark next to it!!

I guess my point would be if you dig deep enough somene will find something to be offended by.

 

[babieemelly]

But historically the sentiment that Jews are cheats and money-grubbers has not been simply a derogatory stereotype. Rhetoric about Jews as cheats and money-grubbers was a large part of the Nazi propaganda that led to the Holocaust; it is part of the attitude toward Jews that led to massive genocide against them. Surely no one could be proud of a stereotype that helped lead to the extermination of 2/3 of the Jews in Europe.

Great post

I've never heard the term "Jewed them down." I'm Jewish and there's a huge population of Jews here in Brooklyn and the rest of the Northeast. If that's not a prejudiced or racist term than I don't know what is. I guess no one around here uses it because they have more common sense and decency than to be so blatantly disrespectful towards hard working, friendly people who are so prevalent in our society There's always been that stereotype that Jews are cheap and we laugh about it, it's never really bothered me. But to go around proudly using a term such as "Jewed him down" is just beyond ignorant, and then to say it's fine to use such terms because "Americans are just too PC these days" is even more so. The whole "everyone will be offended by something" idea isn't relevant when you're using something that's so blatantly offensive. There's a difference between being PC and being respectful, and a little respect and decency goes a long way

 

[Charade]

I agree. If you know something is offensive to someone then why bother to use it. I can understand not knowing. Using your previous post as an example: I never associated "That's gay" with gay people. My very best friend in the world who happens to be gay says it all the time...I wonder if she knows she is offending herself. (I am teasing)

I guess what I am getting at is, if you were a friend of mine and I knew that a certain phrase bothered you, I simply would not use it. It is just not a big deal, and it is not that PC garbage (which I agree some do go overboard with) it is just common courtesy.

Back on topic, I don't think gypped is racial. Up until two minutes ago I had no clue where it came from. If we as a country are going to start getting that out of control, maybe we just should not speak at all because lots of words have negative origins.

Perhaps we need a "universal translator" that detects the religion, ethnicity or race of the person we're speaking with and replaces "offensive" words and phrases with something else. Because it's impossible (it seems) for everyone to know every little thing that might offend someone else.

 

[Mr. Pig]

It has been stressed in this thread that people frequently use common phrases that were once derogatory, but have lost their "sting" over the years, because they are no longer conciously associated with a certain group of people, nor does the average person believe that a group really has the negative trait described, or they don't consider that trait to be negative.

I have to agree with this. There are a lot of terms that are new enough and pretty blatant like "jew them down" or "indian giver" that people easily associate with a ethnic group. Being "gyped" is one of those terms that has lost it's sting and I am guessing that few people that use it associate it with Gypsies as a group. There are probably tons of terms in our everyday language that have originated from a group of people that we don't even realize. If you really want to be PC then don't use the word sinister to describe anything. It comes from the Latin "on the left side" and it refers to the belief that left handed people were different, even evil, in some way. So sinister would be offensive to left handed people.

So where do you draw the line between an offensive remark and figure of speech? I don't know.

 

[Charade]

Great post

I've never heard the term "Jewed them down." I'm Jewish and there's a huge population of Jews here in Brooklyn and the rest of the Northeast. If that's not a prejudiced or racist term than I don't know what is. I guess no one around here uses it because they have more common sense and decency than to be so blatantly disrespectful towards hard working, friendly people who are so prevalent in our society There's always been that stereotype that Jews are cheap and we laugh about it, it's never really bothered me. But to go around proudly using a term such as "Jewed him down" is just beyond ignorant, and then to say it's fine to use such terms because "Americans are just too PC these days" is even more so. There's a difference between being PC and being respectful, and a little respect and decency goes a long way

Is haggling for a lower price a common thing in your neck of the woods?

 

[babieemelly]

Is haggling for a lower price a common thing in your neck of the woods?

Yes, when it comes to flea markets and stuff like that, but I don't know what that has to do with Jews? I know from your posts in other thread and in this very thread that you have little tolerance for people who are different than yourself and that you don't care who you offend, but being racist isn't funny or cute so I wouldn't go around ranting and raving about how OK it is

 

[Charade]

Yes, when it comes to flea markets and stuff like that, but I don't know what that has to do with Jews? I know from your posts in other thread and in this very thread that you have little tolerance for people who are different than yourself and that you don't care who you offend, but being racist isn't funny or cute so I wouldn't go around ranting and raving about how OK it is

Then you don't know me very well.

 

[babieemelly]

Then you don't know me very well.

Then you shouldn't be trying to convince everyone in the thread that it's OK to use derogatory terms because people should just suck it up because that's the image you're projecting.

 

[ConcKahuna]

Yes, when it comes to flea markets and stuff like that, but I don't know what that has to do with Jews? I know from your posts in other thread and in this very thread that you have little tolerance for people who are different than yourself and that you don't care who you offend, but being racist isn't funny or cute so I wouldn't go around ranting and raving about how OK it is

I don't know Charade very well, but from what I've seen of him, I think he just tends to play Devil's Advocate a lot.

The talk of Jewish stereotypes reminds me of a few lines from Stephen King's "It."

Richie: "Stan's a jew, that means he has a big nose and lots of money.:

Eddie: "Except Stan has a normal nose and is always broke."

Richie: "Oh, and he killed Christ."

Stan: "I think that was my father."

 

[babieemelly]

I don't know Charade very well, but from what I've seen of him, I think he just tends to play Devil's Advocate a lot.

The talk of Jewish stereotypes reminds me of a few lines from Stephen King's "It."

Richie: "Stan's a jew, that means he has a big nose and lots of money.:

Eddie: "Except Stan has a normal nose and is always broke."

Richie: "Oh, and he killed Christ."

Stan: "I think that was my father."

It DOES remind me of that!

I just don't understand the "Americans are too PC" debate. There's a difference between being PC and being derogatory. If you know that certain terms are clearly offensive and linked to stereotypes that are historically disgusting (hence the whole Nazi use of the term) why would you proudly use it? And is it OK to use it as long as the people you're speaking to aren't of that race/culture? It's just sad to me how it's still deemed "OK" to be derogatory when it comes to certain races, ethnicities, and personal preferences because everyone's doing it and American's need to lighten up Speaking in that way just makes you look intolerant and uneducated

 

[JennyMominRI]

I know from your posts in other thread and in this very thread that you have little tolerance for people who are different than yourself and that you don't care who you offend,

I disagree with Charade on just about everything ,but I really don't see that..I can't really imagine him saying something like "Jewed him down" either..

 

[babieemelly]

I disagree with Charade on just about anything ,but I really don't see that..I can't really imagine him saying something like "Jewed him down" either..

Then I don't get why he's intent on making it seem like such a cool term?

 

[MrsPete]

Gay people make sense and are too the point.

All of 'em, huh? They aren't individuals, each with their own strengths and weaknesses?