Is DVC a savings or a luxury?

[BeckyV]

We own not only at Disney, but also other timeshares in the US and South Africa. We have stayed in some nice units including Marriott's Grande Ocean at HH. I also like to cook and do not mind preparing meals. We rarely eat out even at home to save money. I guess I get this from my mother who has always felt the prices are not worth what she can cook better at home. This does not mean we never eat out, just that we watch how often or what the prices are. I know this is not for everyone, but I am a true Southern girl who does enjoy cooking in the spare time I have. Check out how much you will save on food if you are willing to prepare them.
Over Christmas we took a last minute trip to DW and was having difficulty getting DVC reservations. I also felt guilty about spending so many points for three nights, one of which was a weekend. SOOOOOO we took advantage of one of those super deals at Carribean Beach. We always stayed in moderates before DVC. My 18 year old was the first to say anything although I was thinking it. We had a wonderful lakeview room in Martinique, but it was not DVC. We missed the balcony, frig, and microwave even in the studio! Oh I wanted my BWV or VWL. I made up my mind right then that I would always stay in a DVC unit again. I really missed my home. And then this past summer I left a studio in Hilton Head and moved into a 1400 sf condo in Sea Pines in HH and guess what? I missed everything about DVC HH. Call it state of mind or whatever. I love DVC. Even the studios. Is it more important to have good meals or a good room? What someone else is willing to pay may not be right for you. Only you can decide. DVC and timeshares are not for everyone.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Yes..I see the list prices..but as I said..I know of no one on these boards who pays those rates

I can assure you there are many people, even who read the DIS, who pay these rates, not to mention the thousands and thousands of people who visit WDW and do not read internet discussion boards at all and hence are unaware of what the budget conscious already know.

Also..if you re-read what I wrote..I said discounts with Postcards, DC, AP, AAA and Codes. You're right not everyone gets a postcard, but therei are lots of other discounts out there

I never said discounts are not available. But, keep in mind they are not available 365 days per year. That is a fact. I only spoke from my own experience in renting the most expensive view room at Dixie Landings and what that room may go for now. The $99 rate I was paying prior to 1997 was not a discounted rate btw.

 

[CarolAnnC]

In case anyone is not aware, we have a specific DVC DIScussion Board here on the DIS. We welcome both members and those considering joining or looking for further information to come participate. Here is the link! Look forward to seeing many of you come visit us over there!

click here

 

[DMRick]

The original poster said:

I try to get the least expensive car, airfare, on site room (with AP, codes, etc). I usually do a pretty decent job with the room, due to APs, this site, and mousesavers.

So while you believe that a great portion of people ON THESE BOARDS (I wasn't talking about people who just call Disney) pay full price, I don't agree. I believe many, many people know about AAA, and DC, and because of these boards (not just Dis..there are several boards and yahoo lists), codes, etc.

Even if people do pay the FULL price for a mod..if you do the math, and figure out traditionally, what interest you would get from the amount you must pay right off the rip for DVC if kept in savings, stock, etc., and put that with the yearly maintenance dues....for the original poster (and I dare say for most people), you still do better not joining. Especially, if you like to have full choice of where and when to stay. You also mentioned codes, etc are not available 365 days a year..are the rooms through DVC available at the same price/points 365 days a year?

Based on what the OP originally asked, I can see no savings for her with DVC.

 

[vernon]

what interest you would get from the amount you must pay right off the rip for DVC if kept in savings, stock

What interest rates are you receiving at the moment? 2% PA? How are your shares doing over the last couple of years? Not too clever I would assume.

for the original poster (and I dare say for most people), you still do better not joining

If you're going to plan on going every year, then I disagree with you. It may take longer for the budget resorts but in the long run it's likely that DVC will be cheaper than paying cash. There are quite a few "unknows" so all you can do is take a "best guess" on what's likely. In my own case when I bought in to DVC , I paid about $12,500 for the points I own. I had a holiday planned for the following year and the cash cost of that booking would have been $4,000. The points I bought covered my needs for that trip. I was also lucky that at that time I received free passes into the parks for the next 8 years. I estimate that saved me another $3,000 over that time. Even with taking interest paid and potential earnings lost I certainly repaid my original cost by 2000. Since that time, and for the next 40 years my rooms cost me the annual dues. This equates to a room cost of about $30 per night.

DVC resorts are a little more "luxurious" than the mods and certainly more so than the budget, is there a real $ value to this? IMHO yes. With the "poolhopping" benefit it does mean there is more likely hood that you can choose to use that benefit instead of spending a day at a waterpark. There's a $100 for a family of 4 saving each trip. Need a fridge, they come as standard, cost from Disney is currently $10 per day I believe.

Every individual needs to look closely at their needs and what's on offer. There are a number of "benefits" that can be used and add value, but only if you'd actually make use of them. While it doesn't suit everyone, it does suit a very large number of people. Like all big financial transactions it does need a lot of thinking about. I can see the OP making a saving, but it will take a relatively long time to do so. I do however think that most people if offered the choice of swapping a budget resort for the Beachclub, for the same money, would take the Beachclub. That I think is a more realistic way to look at it.

I think it's certainly worth people in the situation of taking a hard look at DVC to see if it suits them. Very few of the people that sign up are dissapointed they did so.

 

[Dean]

DVC will not save you money as you have set up the scenario. I would guess you'd about break even if you include the meals savings and tax. What DVC will do is give you a much better room and resort for around the same as you're paying now. I'd definitely agree you should check it out and possibly rent points for one of your trips.

You could buy OKW resale and that would be the cheapest in terms of both up front costs and yearly dues. You should consider your family size, as families get larger, the All Stars fade into the sunset. You should also consider your financial situation, I wouldn't want you to take on a big debt if you couldn't afford it.

You could likely get 150 OKW points for around $10,000 out of pocket with dues around $510 per year. If you just take the direct costs, that's around $750 per year. If you have to finance or count the lost money in savings, that raises the price to around $1250/year.

Overall I suspect DVC will be the best for you with your travel plans and staying on property as long as you can afford it. The cheapest option is actually buying an off property timeshare but then you wouldn't be staying on Disney property.

 

[Doctor P]

I am a cheapskate, and I made all my DVC comparisons based on All Stars (where we had stayed in 1999). I can assure you that DVC is a very good deal even if you normally stay at the value resorts, especially if you stay at peak season. The actual cost of DVC points for us (not the rate that you can rent them at) works out to about $6 per point. Thus, in January at weekday rates, our studio is $48 inclusive of taxes, etc. Even at peak season and on weekends, the maximum number of points for an OKW studio for a week is 147 points, which is $882. This works out to $125 per night, which is the peak season rate for All Stars when tax is included (and even last year, this time was NOT discounted at All Stars). So, I feel pretty good about my DVC purchases.

 

[WDWLVR]

As everyone has already pointed out DVC is a personal choice and not for everyone. Just wanted to add that, for me, DVC saves in ways other than just money.

The fact that we have a fridge and microwave available is a big help in saving time and money. We always eat breakfast in the room and some snacks as well. When we do eat out we can take a doggy bag back and have it the next day (very hard to do in a regular hotel room).

The washer/dryer is another plus. It is nice not to have to overpack. Also when we have little problems (getting caught in the rain or spilling something on a good shirt) we can take care of them right away.

Another plus for me is not having housekeeping. We can set up the room the way we want and know that someone isn't going to be walking in every day and leaving the door open. We get trash and towel service on the 4th day (and a full clean on the 8th, but we are never there that long). When we have a smelly meal we take out the trash oursleves. No big deal.

I think the best advice someone gave is to rent points or see if you can go one time with your sister. See what DVC is really all about and if it is for you. Good luck with your decision.

 

[PamOKW]

I think you have to consider that the ease and availability of discounts that we've seen the past two years are not a guarantee into the future. They may continue or we may go back to the way things were in the past where a 10% discount was difficult to get and the rack rates increased 6% or more per year. In the not too distant past, it was impossible to get any discount Christmas Week. The year I went with my extended family, we almost "paid" for my DVC on that one trip compared to what the accomodations would have cost if booked through Disney.

DMRick, it sounds like you've looked at DVC and it's not for you. If you had purchased several years ago, you would be seeing savings but as the price of DVC continues to increase the total cost is going up. If you weren't interested then, you probably won't be interested now. It may also not make sense to others for a variety of reasons including a desire to stay at All-Star and/or the campsites.

DVC has been wonderful. I have had terrific luck getting what I want when I want it over the last nearly 10 years. It's been no different than calling to get a "regular" reservation except I have been staying in a real home on Disney property instead of a hotel room.

To the original poster, look at DVC for your own consideration but don't feel pressured by your sister. No vacation is any fun if you have overextended yourself financially to pay for it.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by DMRick
Even if people do pay the FULL price for a mod..if you do the math, and figure out traditionally, what interest you would get from the amount you must pay right off the rip for DVC if kept in savings, stock, etc., and put that with the yearly maintenance dues....for the original poster (and I dare say for most people), you still do better not joining. Especially, if you like to have full choice of where and when to stay. You also mentioned codes, etc are not available 365 days a year..are the rooms through DVC available at the same price/points 365 days a year?.

While I've been one to say that DVC is not for everyone, I must disagree with your point. I think that if you compare to a discounted moderate for a week and assume you will go every year, a DVC studio is a break even. Nicer resort, nicer room, other benefits, locked in price. Assume that the room rates and fees will go up about the same rate and DVC will get to be a better deal every year. If you compare to a non discounted moderate and assume not just long weekends, DVC will win every time, every time of the year. If you avoid or minimize weekends, DVC will beat moderates every time even with the discounts. And those statements include taking into account either interest paid OR lost income on the purchase price, even if one assumes a return of 8%, which is not possible right now.

 

[DMRick]

If you compare to a non discounted moderate and assume not just long weekends, DVC will win every time, every time of the year. If you avoid or minimize weekends, DVC will beat moderates every time even

You see, that's the argument I always hear with DVC. I don't want to be "trapped" into avoiding weekends and non discounted moderates, or always trying to figure out how to get the most bang from my bucks. That is how I (and a lot of others travel). When we went on our tour..every "plus" had something like that in it.. We were told to avoid weekends, we were told we could save by cooking our own food, doing laundry (I dont' DO laundy when on vacation) etc. I realize I would never convince someone who already owns, that it's not most times a good deal..because you have already spent the money.
And by the way, although for the past two years, most interest rates and stocks are down, that's only been for the past two years. And that's not for everyone..believe it or not some are still making reasonable money on their investments.
I knew it would not be popular to say I've looked into DVC (and out of my 3-4 trips a year, just one is at AllStars, by choice..we happen to love the themeing for our grands), and not found it to be the bargain said. The cost is not just the cost of maintenance no matter how many times you explain away the hugh down payment. Just what I read on this board, people seem to often be buying more and more points.
We have gotten discounts for years at Disney, not just the past couple of them. And maybe they won't last forever, but when forever changes, then perhaps DVC would make sense to me. But as long as they do so deeply discount, with AP's, AAA, etc, the discounts far outweigh such a big outlay. And please don't read more into what I said....I did not say I only stay at AllStars, campground, etc. to save the cost of DVC. We have looked at the whole picture. We like to go 3-4 weeks a year, when we want to go, and stay where we want to stay...we've often been able to couple those wants, with a good bargain...even during peak times.

 

[Scoootch]

. For those who say they are no longer paying for their room...unless I'm missing something, you are..in the form of maintenance fees...


Yes we are paying in the form of maintenance fees, however I'm now paying $508.69 for the year to stay at DVC - in the form of maintenance fees because my points after being a member for 5yrs now are paid for in full -- instead of the $1,700.00 I was spending every year for 2 weeks at Dixie Landings. And lets remember -- that's strickly for accommodations - NOT food,tickets, or travel.

So for spending around $9,000.00 for my 150 pts that are now paid for -- for the next 40 years until 2042 I'm spending less than half just paying maintenance fees every year for my stay. $1,700.00 every year for 5 years is $8,500.00 so I've taken what I would have spent every year and spent it on my pts. and now instead of paying $1,700.00 again for next year it's only costing me the $508.69 for the maintenance fees. And yes, the maintenance fees can go up but to $1,700.00?? I don't think so. To me, not spending an extra $1,200.00 every year just on accomadations is a dramatic savings. That's money I can be spending on my tickets and food and travel -- which you'll have to spend above your accomodations. And I'm not one to do much cooking while on vacation. Some breakfast in the room here and there but dinners we usually eat out. And yes, not everyone has as low of maintenace fees due to owning more pts and/or at other resorts than OKW but for some -- DVC is a significant savings.

Originally posted by PamOKW [/i]
I think you have to consider that the ease and availability of discounts that we've seen the past two years are not a guarantee into the future.


DMRick, it sounds like you've looked at DVC and it's not for you. If you had purchased several years ago, you would be seeing savings but as the price of DVC continues to increase the total cost is going up. If you weren't interested then, you probably won't be interested now. It may also not make sense to others for a variety of reasons including a desire to stay at All-Star and/or the campsites.
DVC has been wonderful. I have had terrific luck getting what I want when I want it over the last nearly 10 years. It's been no different than calling to get a "regular" reservation except I have been staying in a real home on Disney property instead of a hotel room.

To the original poster, look at DVC for your own consideration but don't feel pressured by your sister. No vacation is any fun if you have overextended yourself financially to pay for it. [/QUOTE

Pam --
I completely agree with you!!


DVC is not for everyone but...as you can see there can be significant amounts of money to be saved. And by the way, I stay on the weekends.

 

[DMRick]

Yes we are paying in the form of maintenance fees, however I'm now paying $508.69 for the year to stay at DVC - in the form of maintenance fees because my points after being a member for 5yrs now are paid for in full

Again..it's not just maintenance fees you pay yearly...even if you did already pay off the first fee..you still have to consider it...and it's real value, if you still had the principle (ok, so interest rates are down..they haven't always and historically won't always be).

We don't pay $1700 a year at POR..we pay 1106 - $1246 plus tax. Big difference. You're also assuming you will use your membership for the next 40 years. People who sell memberships are counting on that not happening. As I said earlier, we've known many people over the years who have bought timeshares..few of them continued with them once their interests changed. They never got back the initial investments. It seems those people we have known have bought more than one kind of timeshare over the years..some have felt they had to vacation to get their money's worth, even if they didn't want to.

Is there a cap on your maintenance fees? I don't remember if that was brought up on our tour...although again, it's a lot more than maintenance fees to consider. Even if you are now "saving" $1200 a year (albeit nicer accomadations..we just don't spend a lot of time in our room when vacationing), if you paid $12,000 in fees, points etc, to join..it would take you 10 years, just to come even..on two weeks vacation a year (we vacation twice that amount). Some pay more (some paid less), depending on when they bought, also on how good they bargained, and how often they planned on vacationing. That's a lot of money to pay in advance.

 

[dcfromva]

I agree with the poster who said the DVC is not for everyone. It took us 10 years to decide we wanted to join (we just joined last year). I really don't consider it an investment--more like a 40 year commitment to vacations (now 39 years left).

I really can't say that I wish we had joined sooner because the accomodations that we had in the past were just fine and suited us well. But over the years, DS has gotten bigger and we just want a little more space. We were looking at getting 2 rooms instead of just one (where the rooms may or may not be near each other and no kitchen facilities). In the past few visits, we have stayed mosty at the Polynesian, The Beach Club and The Animal Kingdom Lodge. We used our first year's worth of points on 2 BR units. 1night at HH (in the summer), 2 nights at OKW (in Oct), 4 nights at the Beach Club (over New Year's) and banked a few odd left over points to use next year. Our average cost for the 7 nights in beautiful 2 BR units with a kitchen and a washer/dryer was around $206/night (really pretty much in line with our discount rates where we stayed in the past for 1 room). On New Year's Eve, it rained buckets and all our clothes were drenched, by 9PM, we walked back from EPCOT to our rooms (in about 10-15 mins) and all of our wet things were washed and dried and folded and put away before the New Year in the comfort of our own Vacation home. On another evening on our New Year's trip, the family didn't want to eat out another night, we had a nice home made Pasta dinner. It was just so comfortable.
In future, I expect that we will still use a combination of codes and DVC points for our vacations (and we can't wait to see how SOG is going to look when it is done being remodeled). We have spent 23 days at WDW since last June and we certainly don't have enough points for that long... But, I know DH and DS would prefer to stay in DVC accomodations whenever possible.

-DC

 

[WDWMom]

Here is an angle that is hard to argue. Some DVC members purchased almost 10 years ago for a buy in price of around $54. They could currently sell their membership for $ 64- $68 or more. A profit of $10 - $14 per point. Their only cost will be 10 yrs of maintenance fees of around $ 3.40 per yr. ( rough Avg).

While a membership today doesn't have the same upside the economics are still sound. What will the resale be in 10 years? I don't know. What will the price of a room at a moderate be in 10 yrs?

We stayed at Dixie Landings in 95 for $69 a night. 5 yrs. later we couldn't find availabilty in the same room for less than $ 149. Who can predict the economy. If we see another boom time like the late 90's both prices and availibilty will be seriously different than what we see today. DVC is locked.

 

[Lisa P.]

Here is an angle that is hard to argue. Some DVC members purchased almost 10 years ago... profit of $10 - $14 per point... While a membership today doesn't have the same upside the economics are still sound.

I would disagree that it's sound to advise anyone buying today that they ought to even consider the "profit" enjoyed by early buyers, when making a current day decision. In the timeshare industry, when any quality resort program is first building, their pricing is often at it's very lowest. As the property or program matures, becomes established and more recognized, with a growing owner referral base, it's common for the pricing to increase significantly.

There is always a point where the popularity is at a peak and the developer is able to sell at a much higher price. Eventually, this will drop off. This does not even factor in the shortening duration of DVC's leasehold, ending in January 2042, 38 years from now.

So while earlier buyers' profit (if they sold) may have been an interesting bit of DVC history, it's not necessarily part of the economics for a brand new buyer. Today's new buyers may be getting closer to paying peak pricing. There is no way to know for sure when the peak will be, as it will depend a great deal on whether Disney continues to expand and market the program, and exercise their ROFR. JMHO.

 

[Dean]

DMRick, DVC is not for everyone and it apparently is not for you. That's OK, to each his own. Your post earlier was more broad reaching and indicated that there was no value in DVC for anyone and I find that absolutely wrong. There are situations where DVC is not a good deal and those in that situation should avoid it. Others might not expect to vacation routinley at WDW or might not have the cash to outlay.

I agree with you about counting the lost income in your analysis or the interest paid, but you can't do both. Lets assume an average moderate price of $109 plus tax ($120) and 30 days, that's $3630 and assume you do that every year. You would need around 400 points roughly to do that at OKW or BWV (standard view). Up front cost around $25000 or a return of principle at about $635 per year (25000/39). Lost income around $2000 at 8% but even that's an over estimate since we're figuring return of principle so the income return would go down 1/39 each year as well. Yearly dues at $1360 currently. Total worst case scenario $3995 per year currently.

Obviously we can manipulate this in many ways. I've seen moderates as low as $79 per night plus tax and as high as $139 per night best price one could get. Once can manipulate the DVC stays for less points by avoiding or minimizing weekends. Hotels and dues should go up at around the same rate which will continue to favor DVC. Sure there will always be deals but unlikely to the extent we're seeing them now. And most of all, the best moderate is significantly below the worst DVC resort and unit making a break even scenario a significant win for DVC. That's not to mention the kitchen facilities, discounts and laundry availability.

Still DVC is not for everyone but it is a good deal for many who go to WDW regularly. Also, it seems contradictory to say one doesn't want to worry about rules, booking windows and the like but searches out discount codes. The cheapest stay is still an area timeshare which could be a third of the moderate cost.

 

[Luv2Roam]

I admit right off I know very little about DVC.
Many DVC'ers I speak with have family and they rent and need larger accomodations.
It's just DH and I. We stay at AS or mods, depending on the cost and length of stay.
We don't want to cook or eat packaged store food. The GOOD food in WDW is one of the reasons we like to go there. I can cook and eat packaged food at home.
Even with DVC, we still would be buying airfare, AP's, food, tipping, and all other costs involved with a WDW vacation.
I also don't like having to schedule my vacation days around Disney's point system. It would be different if we could come and go whenever. But we need to make the most of our time off.
And Disney apparently does change rules and policies along the way. Pool hopping (or lack of) being one I have read a lot of complaints from DVC-ers on just recently.
IF I really wanted DVC, I would just look into renting points.
I even know DVC-ers who use their points AND still rent rooms somewhere else because they want trips beyond what their poiints cover.
If we had kids/grandkids and were use to deluxe accomodations, it would maybe be something for us to look into.

 

[janette]

Originally posted by Luv2Roam
I also don't like having to schedule my vacation days around Disney's point system. It would be different if we could come and go whenever. But we need to make the most of our time off.

The point system only makes the less popular seasons a higher value. Not much different than the rate structure at the resorts, if you go off season you have a much better chance of getting discounts. With DVC it is just automatically written in, since we have kids we usually can't go during the times we would get the most for our points but we can go anytime that works for us. The flexibility is part of what we really like.

It really is what works for a family, for someone that is happy staying at the All Stars the value of DVC is significantly less. We stayed in a DVC studio and then moved to a 1 bedroom and ended up buying more points so that we could stay in a 1 bedroom all the time My DH spends lots of time in the resort so he enjoys the space. We don't cook but do use the microwave some and like having a refrigerator to keep drinks cold. When we were at WDW last June we got wet almost everyday, the washer / dryer got quite a work out. In a regular room we would have wet clothes everywhere or had to make time to find a laundry room.

We will probably spend a couple of nights at AKL on our next trip but will do it during the first part of the vacation. Last time we moved one of the Universal hotels for the last part of the trip and we really missed the space we had at the DVC resort.

 

[InstImpres]

I can't believe I am being sucked into this thread. I am a DVC owner and it took 3 years to convince me.

Just 1 point to anyone considering (which I don't personally understand).
ALL DVC OWNERSHIPS REGARDLESS OF PURCHASE DATE REVERT BACK TO DISNEY 2042. (Even on resorts just being built)


What this boils down to is if you are on the fence about buying better to get in sooner than later. Oddly enough, the buy in per point continues to rise as the number of years you have "ownership" dwindles. Therefor, the longer you wait. the less cost effective DVC is. I am looking at buying an add on and kicking myself as I will now pay $15 more per point, and have three less vacation years.

Just one view
Sandy