Is Anyone Else Thoroughly Depressed?

[zulemara]

I didn't come in this thread because I was afraid it would bring all my negative emotions from 2006 when WI passed the exact same bill that's on FL's ballot tonight.

To be honest, the only reason I'm able to deal with it is because I know I'll be going to FL and even if the amendment is passed, I know my employer(Disney) supports my rights and eventually things will get better. I guess my feelings are generated more on the people closely surrounding me and I try to block out the rest of the bigots in this nation(IE bible belt south)

Let us hope the amendment is turned down, Obama is elected, and the dems get a 60 majority in the senate. Doing so will pave the way for our rights.

 

[Melora]

I am so sad for my daughter.

My husband says that people need to hang onto to some sort of discrimination and unfortunately this is the group is that is the happy recipient.

I swear I DON'T understand why people care so much about what other people do when it does not affect them in the slightest.

The old bigots will have to die and a new generation will have to grow up before the gay people are considered equal.

 

[zulemara]

I’m posting this in pretty much all the election threads because I see the same feelings being brought out in everyone and I think I have some insight that can help you all understand and hopefully make you feel better about the way a couple states voted last night.

In 2006 WI passed the same amendment that FL did. As I understand it, CA’s amendment defines marriage, but does not take away benefits equal or similar to that of marriage like FL and WI’s do.
After 2006, I was so angry at my state. How could so many people vote against my rights? How can they be so blind? How can I stand to live in this state anymore? I am from a city of 55,000 with many surrounding “hick” towns where people really do cling to their guns and religion. I have done everything I can to surround myself in a positive environment despite our current laws here. For instance, I went to the fair in my grandma’s hometown of Viroqua, WI. When I came out of the fair, there was a “protect marriage” flier on my car. I said I’ll never give another dime to that town and I haven’t. Will it make a difference? No, but it makes me feel better.

What we all need is to strike a balance between what makes us feel better, and what we can do to make a difference. I think we can take a page from the pro-life people.

When you’re looking for a place to eat, shop, or visit for entertainment, find out the policies of these companies. Do they support their LGBT employees? Look for the ads in the major gay magazines and support those businesses. Will that make a difference? Probably only a little bit if at all, but I know it really makes me feel much better.

Now how can we make a difference? Stay where you are! Live your life and make sure when you come in contact with people that you aren’t afraid to say “well this sub is for my partner, I guess I’ll find out how well I know him” little things like that can expose many people to the fact that we are here, we are no different, and we aren’t going anywhere! It is so easy to be angry towards the people around you. He’s old, I bet he voted against me, she is black I bet she voted against me, he is walking into a Catholic church, he hates me too. Those are all easy things to do, but it doesn’t accomplish anything. Keep an open mind towards new people you meet. You might find someone is Catholic, but not necessarily opposed to your rights. I have been surprised more than once on the issue. Write a letter to the editor, but don’t be angry, seek only to educate. Although you might not change someone’s mind through your letter, it might bring up a discussion between two people with opposing views.

We have elected Obama because he wants to change Washington. As someone mentioned, he said “gay or straight” in his speech last night. No other politician who says he’s for gay rights has ever done that from what I’ve seen, and to me that says HE GETS IT. He will be working with a Democratic majority. These next 2 years(before the religious right gets motivated) are our years to make a difference at a national level! Remind our elected officials why we voted(or didn’t vote) for them. Lets get national hate crime legislation passed, repeal DODT, and repeal the DOMA. What is the one thing Obama has shown us in this election? Hope is powerful, and it’s what we ALL need to have no matter your state. Live your life, show you’re normal, and when you’re upset that you aren’t accepted, go to Disneyworld/land

 

[wallyb]

Sorry for you Louie - sweety
Come to MA - We got plenty of room for you here

 

[GurGie]

I live in Florida. This election result has changed how I view the world and how I look at other people. I had to talk it over with my children this morning (they are old enough that they understand the issues well and it is likely that they will hear about it in school.) Talk about a loss of innocence....

 

[kingLouiethe1]

Sorry for you Louie - sweety
Come to MA - We got plenty of room for you here

Ok, but you're going to have to find me a ridiculously large parka because I don't like to be cold.

 

[RickinNYC]

Gang, there's discussion on this on the Community Board. You're all preaching to the choir and agreeing with each other. That serves NO purpose. Go to the Community Board and be heard by others that normally don't read here.

 

[wallyb]

Gang, there's discussion on this on the Community Board. You're all preaching to the choir and agreeing with each other. That serves NO purpose. Go to the Community Board and be heard by others that normally don't read here.

I don't like "Others"

 

[wallyb]

Ok, but you're going to have to find me a ridiculously large parka because I don't like to be cold.

I have a big old mink a friend store at my house - you can use that
You'll be glam-tastic!

 

[RickinNYC]

I don't like "Others"

Then there's no chance you'll ever be heard.

 

[zulemara]

Then there's no chance you'll ever be heard.

give me a link

 

[wallyb]

Then there's no chance you'll ever be heard.

Think about that for a second.
me.
wallyB
lose on the CB.

good Idea?

 

[RickinNYC]

give me a link

Here you go: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2001096

 

[kingLouiethe1]

Gang, there's discussion on this on the Community Board. You're all preaching to the choir and agreeing with each other. That serves NO purpose. Go to the Community Board and be heard by others that normally don't read here.

Sorry Rick. I just don't think am internet message board is really the most effective medium to change the hearts and minds of people. It's difficult enough to do it face to face. add in the anonymity of the internet and I think it's really quite impossible.

Besides, all joking aside I'm really quite upset and this isn't the time to interact with people that disagree with me. I would say mean things that wouldn't be constructive or helpful.

 

[hematite153]

Besides, all joking aside I'm really quite upset and this isn't the time to interact with people that disagree with me. I would say mean things that wouldn't be constructive or helpful.

Yeah...I'll try to read it and consider....

But, I've been so horrified by the fact that these propositions even existed that I haven't even really been able to post about them here. I mean, I'm bi, married to a woman AND religious. So, I feel like I'm being attacked on all sides at the same time. Christianity doesn't actually say any of these things that people keep saying to support their hate. I mean, even if I start trying to think of a more conservative, literal Christianity, I get to "love thy neighbour" and "do unto him as you would have done unto you". Do these people really think that spewing hate and discrimination qualifies as love? And, would they really want someone to come along and tell their children that their parents didn't have the right to be married and/or tell their foster children that they have to move because it's been decided that the only loving home they've ever known isn't acceptable because it only has 1 parent?

Besides that, have they forgotten who Jesus was??? He was a radical who spoke out against discriminatory practices and taught that everyone was loved by God regardless of who they were. I mean, he was such a strong social justice crusader that his movement continued beyond his death--don't you think he'd be horrified to hear you using his name to defend discrimination!?

Argh!!!

Then there's the other side, the US is supposed to have a separation of church and state and yet, these propositions come from religious groups. Where's the separation??? Religion seems to have a greater impact on politics in the US than in other countries that actively ask for religious input and/or claim to have strong church and state linkages. I mean, the first country in the world to pass federal legislation for equal marriage was Spain--a strongly Catholic country where the church has a lot of power.

How can the US allow, encourage and accept this kind of discrimination? It seems like the kind of thing that should get struck down on legal challenges, yet, it never seems to happen.

I find that I'm re-evaluating my habit of vacationing in the US--even wdw because it's still in FL where my kids would be in danger of being told their parents' marriage is invalid. There are lots of other places we'd like to go, so, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[zulemara]

Yeah...I'll try to read it and consider....

But, I've been so horrified by the fact that these propositions even existed that I haven't even really been able to post about them here. I mean, I'm bi, married to a woman AND religious. So, I feel like I'm being attacked on all sides at the same time. Christianity doesn't actually say any of these things that people keep saying to support their hate. I mean, even if I start trying to think of a more conservative, literal Christianity, I get to "love thy neighbour" and "do unto him as you would have done unto you". Do these people really think that spewing hate and discrimination qualifies as love? And, would they really want someone to come along and tell their children that their parents didn't have the right to be married and/or tell their foster children that they have to move because it's been decided that the only loving home they've ever known isn't acceptable because it only has 1 parent?

Besides that, have they forgotten who Jesus was??? He was a radical who spoke out against discriminatory practices and taught that everyone was loved by God regardless of who they were. I mean, he was such a strong social justice crusader that his movement continued beyond his death--don't you think he'd be horrified to hear you using his name to defend discrimination!?

Argh!!!

Then there's the other side, the US is supposed to have a separation of church and state and yet, these propositions come from religious groups. Where's the separation??? Religion seems to have a greater impact on politics in the US than in other countries that actively ask for religious input and/or claim to have strong church and state linkages. I mean, the first country in the world to pass federal legislation for equal marriage was Spain--a strongly Catholic country where the church has a lot of power.

How can the US allow, encourage and accept this kind of discrimination? It seems like the kind of thing that should get struck down on legal challenges, yet, it never seems to happen.

I find that I'm re-evaluating my habit of vacationing in the US--even wdw because it's still in FL where my kids would be in danger of being told their parents' marriage is invalid. There are lots of other places we'd like to go, so, we'll have to wait and see.

your points all fantastic. Speaking as someone who has a right wing fundamentalist in his family(2 of them actually) I can say the reason they are using the Bible to preach hate is because of sodam and goliath and the "a man shall not lay with another man" verse in the Bible. That's all they need.

You choose to focus on the New Testament. I am not a spiritual person by any means but I was raised Catholic and I understand enough to put up a decent debate. The new testament is SUPPOSED to over ride what the old testament says, but the fundamentalists like to pick and choose what part of the Bible they will follow. On the one hand, gay people are sinful, yet they turn their head to the multiple other examples of things that are no longer culturally relevant to our society. They pick and choose and that's why the problem is there to begin with.

As far as vacationing, I would agree with you except on the Disney front. I have walked down main street holding hands with my boyfriend, with a top hat mickey ears on, and a happy anniversary button. We went on rides, went to dinner, and I gave him a ring in front of the castle. Not only did no one say anything, but if they did(and especially if they are out of line) Disney WILL kick them out. Disney is literally the one place you can go in this country where you're in a bubble. You're surrounded by full support that just doesn't exist anywhere else. Yes, you can walk the streets of MA, but if someone comes up to you yelling that you're immoral, nothing can be done. At Disney, something can and will be done. Luckily it has never happened to me. I choose to show people that I can love my boyfriend just like anyone else and rather they like it or not, they(and their kids) will be exposed at some point in their life, so get over it, get used to it, and learn to accept it.

 

[fairycat]

I find that I'm re-evaluating my habit of vacationing in the US--even wdw because it's still in FL where my kids would be in danger of being told their parents' marriage is invalid. There are lots of other places we'd like to go, so, we'll have to wait and see.

Seriously this goes for anyone, if you change your buying/spending because of these new (ridiculous) laws, write and tell people! If you won't go to FL or CA to visit Disney because of the laws, write the State Tourism Board and Govener and tell them this. If you are switching to Levis because of their support of Prop 8 write and tell them! Boycotting in quiet does not make as big a noise and boycotting with letters!!!

I will be rethinking giving FL money and will tell them! Money can move mountains that common sense takes years to errode.

 

[hematite153]

I actually know quite a few fundamentalists...one of whom decided that the day before my wedding was the day to tell me how much he "disagreed with what I was doing". So, I know the whole game of picking the parts of the bible that you want.

Seriously though, if you're (not you, but, the people who promote this kind of hatred) going to focus on the Old Testament then I have the following questions:
- Why call yourself Christian?
- Why don't you follow all of the other rules (aka the email forwards)?
- What do you make of 1Samuel18...isn't it a same sex marriage?

And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. 3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle. 5 And David went out whithersoever Saul sent him, and behaved himself wisely: and Saul set him over the men of war, and he was accepted in the sight of all the people, and also in the sight of Saul's servants.

As far as vacationing, I would agree with you except on the Disney front. I have walked down main street holding hands with my boyfriend, with a top hat mickey ears on, and a happy anniversary button. We went on rides, went to dinner, and I gave him a ring in front of the castle. Not only did no one say anything, but if they did(and especially if they are out of line) Disney WILL kick them out. Disney is literally the one place you can go in this country where you're in a bubble.

See, I get this, IF you live in the US. But, for me, I live in a country where I am legally married and where it is illegal to discriminate against me on the basis of that marriage. In order for me to get to Disney, I have to pass through other parts of the US and face discrimination. When we head home we are always sad to leave Disney, but, then, happy to get home to Canada. For a long time, the US border guards refused to accept a single customs form from us because they didn't consider our marriage valid. Fortunately, they seem to have given up on that, but, we still occasionally deal with discrimination at that point while we are still on Canadian soil, just on the far side of the red line in the carpet.

Also, Disney isn't quite the perfect bubble for us. I always make my primary request a king bed (when possible at the resort) and will pay for it if it is a separate booking category. But, we've only gotten one once and the CM at check-in started changing it "so we wouldn't have to sleep together" -- fortunately, he was muttering under his breath while doing it so we figured out what he was doing and were able to stop him. Once, when were staying at POR, the CM I was trying to book the package with wouldn't let me book a king room "because we were 2 women" and I had to call back a couple of days later to change the reservation. Granted, on the second call I got a fabulous CM who was not only helpful, but, also raising kids with her female partner, but, still, it's not a perfect bubble.

My DW and I also seem to have this problem at wdw of having people call her my mother. Yes, she's older than I am, but, only 6 years! When we've told people here about it they laugh and say that we don't look anything alike. The first time it happened we were shocked, but, it happened about 6 times during our Sept. trip--starting at the ME check-in desk. What I've decided is that we look like we know each other really well, love each other and are affectionate. Around here that leads people to assume we're a couple. In the US the idea of couple seems to be too far in the backs of people's minds so they go to mother/daughter instead.

I'm sure I will go back to wdw--just not sure I'll do 3 trips in a year (plus trips to DC and SanFran) like last year.

FairyCat -- You're right. I will try to find some time to write to various tourist commissions (and perhaps Disney).

 

[OrlandoMike]

Think about that for a second.
me.
wallyB
lose on the CB.

good Idea?

This may be the post of the year!

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

This may be the post of the year!

Cry HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war...