International Seller

[Mumof4mice]

Hahaha!

[shakes fist at heavens]

CURSE YOU SHORT STRAW!!!

You won't need an accountant. There's the IRS department that advocates for taxpayers when there is a "system failure" as this situation was described to me by the IRS. The IRS actually suggested I get in touch with them when they were unable to locate my bill, but agreed that the threatening letters were legitimate. They just said I had to wait until actions were actually taken as opposed to just threatening letters. After which, I could contact the third party advocacy group. https://www.irs.gov/advocate/local-taxpayer-advocate

Yeah. Fun.

Thank you so much for your reply. You are one of the 1000+ point members, right?
What do you think of a complete change of tactics (from just looking at MK resorts, especially PVB which we love) to just buying as many points as cheaply as possible?

I was hoping to book with points for January 2019. But with all this kerfuffle ended up renting through David's. In doing so, I discovered 2 bedrooms are very available, well into the 7 month window. And suddenly SSR is looking better!

 

[Bing Showei]

Thank you so much for your reply. You are one of the 1000+ point members, right?

Oh, heavens no. Not sure whatever gave you that impression... maybe it was that time I was talking about how I'm "points rich"? I was just talking out my bum for entertainment purposes. No basis in reality whatsoever.

What do you think of a complete change of tactics (from just looking at MK resorts, especially PVB which we love) to just buying as many points as cheaply as possible?

I was hoping to book with points for January 2019. But with all this kerfuffle ended up renting through David's. In doing so, I discovered 2 bedrooms are very available, well into the 7 month window. And suddenly SSR is looking better!

[Disclaimer: this is from the perspective of a brand new owner in the DVC system.]

I'm quite ambivalent about this, to be honest.

I know people have been able to make SSR work exclusively; staying in non-studios during most times of the year. But being new to DVC, I'm learning I don't have the constitution to go this route whole-hog. Despite the large availability of 1BRs at 7 months, my stomach was in knots in the days leading up to our planned August trip's 7-month booking. Days started falling off the availability chart around my desired travel dates at BCV. When my time came up, I clicked and clicked to securing my vacation, but it was not a pleasant experience for me and really drove home the idea of buy where you don't mind staying.

By dumb luck and virtue of not knowing any better, I bought into VGF for my first contracts so my fallback was somewhere I'd be happy at. I'm super happy I have those instead of just SSR points, as I would probably be bummed staying at SSR regularly (says the guy who's never stayed there ).

But here's where I'm torn: emotions set aside, I used points to book that BCV stay that were the same exact value as SSR, so logically, I should be fine owning SSR exclusively in most cases. I could probably even get a Kidani 1BR Savannah view in early December if I were willing to walk it. If I were more flexible and avoided traveling during holidays and peak DVC times, I could probably make SSR work. The question is, do you want to spend tens of thousands of dollars to "probably" get what you want? That's a personal call that will depend on how flexible you really are.

I think where I am now is that I am an advocate of supplementing your holdings with cheaper SSR points. If you love VGF, CCV, or BWV, buy enough there to get you into those tough places during peak time, then supplement your holdings with filler points that would likely get you anywhere you want in a non-studio at 7-months during other times that you might travel.

The heart wants, what the heart wants. If you love PVB, that should carry some weight (cursed ROFR notwithstanding). I suspect in the long term, people never regret buying where they love. I do hear a lot of people lament not buying where they loved earlier.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Oh, heavens no. Not sure whatever gave you that impression... maybe it was that time I was talking about how I'm "points rich"? I was just talking out my bum for entertainment purposes. No basis in reality whatsoever.

[Disclaimer: this is from the perspective of a brand new owner in the DVC system.]

I'm quite ambivalent about this, to be honest.

I know people have been able to make SSR work exclusively; staying in non-studios during most times of the year. But being new to DVC, I'm learning I don't have the constitution to go this route whole-hog. Despite the large availability of 1BRs at 7 months, my stomach was in knots in the days leading up to our planned August trip's 7-month booking. Days started falling off the availability chart around my desired travel dates at BCV. When my time came up, I clicked and clicked to securing my vacation, but it was not a pleasant experience for me and really drove home the idea of buy where you don't mind staying.

By dumb luck and virtue of not knowing any better, I bought into VGF for my first contracts so my fallback was somewhere I'd be happy at. I'm super happy I have those instead of just SSR points, as I would probably be bummed staying at SSR regularly (says the guy who's never stayed there ).

But here's where I'm torn: emotions set aside, I used points to book that BCV stay that were the same exact value as SSR, so logically, I should be fine owning SSR exclusively in most cases. I could probably even get a Kidani 1BR Savannah view in early December if I were willing to walk it. If I were more flexible and avoided traveling during holidays and peak DVC times, I could probably make SSR work. The question is, do you want to spend tens of thousands of dollars to "probably" get what you want? That's a personal call that will depend on how flexible you really are.

I think where I am now is that I am an advocate of supplementing your holdings with cheaper SSR points. If you love VGF, CCV, or BWV, buy enough there to get you into those tough places during peak time, then supplement your holdings with filler points that would likely get you anywhere you want in a non-studio at 7-months during other times that you might travel.

The heart wants, what the heart wants. If you love PVB, that should carry some weight (cursed ROFR notwithstanding). I suspect in the long term, people never regret buying where they love. I do hear a lot of people lament not buying where they loved earlier.

Hmm… maybe it was Pangyal I was thinking of, or maybe just going senile and making stuff up

I actually had two pvb contracts pass rofr. Then seller pulled out of the first one, and the second one is a mess currently. Certainly dampens the excitement as we toss around ideas for our next move.

 

[AdamsMum]

As the closing company is withholding the FIRPTA tax, I only think it could cause a problem if both buyer and seller are internationals. By problem I mean that since the buyer would also need to obtain an ITIN number that would cause some delay in the closing process.

I'm an international (Canada) owner, and sold a small contract 2 years ago, the title company was charging about the same amount as the FIRTPA tax, so I didn't apply for a refund. Received a letter from the IRS a few months later telling me that if I wanted a refund I should apply for an ITIN number, but it isn't necessary if I don't want to apply for a refund. I've never had to apply for an ITIN when buying resale and I've purchased resale twice. Just an FYI.

By the way, I've only used The Timeshare Store for my transactions, fabulous service, very professsional. I've seen some tales of woe from people using some other brokers.

 

[Mumof4mice]

I'm an international (Canada) owner, and sold a small contract 2 years ago, the title company was charging about the same amount as the FIRTPA tax, so I didn't apply for a refund. Received a letter from the IRS a few months later telling me that if I wanted a refund I should apply for an ITIN number, but it isn't necessary if I don't want to apply for a refund. I've never had to apply for an ITIN when buying resale and I've purchased resale twice. Just an FYI.

By the way, I've only used The Timeshare Store for my transactions, fabulous service, very professsional. I've seen some tales of woe from people using some other brokers.

Yes, that's how the FIRPTA agent explained it to me. It's optional for the international seller to decide if applying for an ITIN and claiming the tax refund is worth their trouble. Many don't bother.

But when buying from an international seller, if the buyer doesn't apply for an ITIN AND withhold 15%, the IRS will ask the buyer to pay the 15%. So your sellers must have been U.S. citizens.

 

[AdamsMum]

Yes, that's how the FIRPTA agent explained it to me. It's optional for the international seller to decide if applying for an ITIN and claiming the tax refund is worth their trouble. Many don't bother.

But when buying from an international seller, if the buyer doesn't apply for an ITIN AND withhold 15%, the IRS will ask the buyer to pay the 15%. So your sellers must have been U.S. citizens.

I believe the broker or title company did the withholding automatically. I suppose it gets complicated if you are trying to do it yourself.

 

[sndral]

The only differences between my 2 resale purchases was that I had to provide my social security number at the beginning for the international seller contract, the contract I bought from USA sellers I did not. I paid cash for both, so no need for providing ss no. for loan purposes on either. The IRS wants the ss no. in case the title co. fails to file the paperwork/pay the funds for the international seller’s FIRPTA. With a competent title co. there should be no issues. The TSS was my broker on the international contract and they put the info. that it’s an international seller in the listing, so I knew that detail from the get go & the process was easier & quicker than my USA seller contract w/ a different broker.
Ironically, the International contract took a few extra days because of waiting for mail from the UK, but the USA contract took a lot longer because the divorcing sellers took longer to sign/notarize/mail their closing doc.s.. Thus, based on my experience I’d rather have an international seller than divorcing sellers

 

[Mumof4mice]

The only differences between my 2 resale purchases was that I had to provide my social security number at the beginning for the international seller contract, the contract I bought from USA sellers I did not. I paid cash for both, so no need for providing ss no. for loan purposes on either. The IRS wants the ss no. in case the title co. fails to file the paperwork/pay the funds for the international seller’s FIRPTA. With a competent title co. there should be no issues. The TSS was my broker on the international contract and they put the info. that it’s an international seller in the listing, so I knew that detail from the get go & the process was easier & quicker than my USA seller contract w/ a different broker.
Ironically, the International contract took a few extra days because of waiting for mail from the UK, but the USA contract took a lot longer because the divorcing sellers took longer to sign/notarize/mail their closing doc.s.. Thus, based on my experience I’d rather have an international seller than divorcing sellers

Thanks for sharing. That's comforting actually - it could definitely be worse with acrimonious bust-ups!

We're paying cash too. But we're international (Australian). Hence we don't have SSN and need to apply for ITIN. In case the title company messes up, the IRS needs to have someone to go after

 

[Bing Showei]

With a competent title co. there should be no issues.

I agree with your sentiment that international contracts should be hassle free. But again, my title company filed everything correctly. Eventually, an IRS representative acknowledged a known FIRPTA issue that they've seen come up multiple times before, and had a prescribed way to handle it - basically, ignore it until the computer glitch times itself out... despite threats by the US Government of putting a lien on my property. Things happen.

 

[motherof5]

I made an offer on an Aulani (subsidized dues!) contract today. I asked the broker about the FIRPTA tax that I was worried I would be charged extra fees. Her response was:

As for the FIRPTA tax you will in no way have any implications for that. The title company withholds the tax from the sale of the proceeds that the seller has until the seller applies for a refund status so that does not fall on you at all.

Does anyone see any potential issue with this? Is there anything else I should be aware of with an international seller? I am ok with it taking a bit longer than normal.

Thank you!
P.S.- If you've been reading my other crazy threads, I decided that a smallish contract at Aulani, if subsidized dues, would be best for us so that we can alternate with WDW and get two different experiences.

I bought from a international buyer and all went well, no extra fees for me. I also felt that Disney passed on this since it was international buyer. Just my thought since I offered $72 for OKW only had 92 of 370 points for 2018 and passed in 10 days! I know this is a month old. So how did u make out, did you purchase?

 

[rg35]

We bought from international (UK) sellers. We didn't even know until I saw the contracts.

The whole FIRPTA thing never came up. In fact, I didn't even know it was a thing until a few years after we bought.

 

[justme0729]

I bought from a international buyer and all went well, no extra fees for me. I also felt that Disney passed on this since it was international buyer. Just my thought since I offered $72 for OKW only had 92 of 370 points for 2018 and passed in 10 days! I know this is a month old. So how did u make out, did you purchase?

Thanks! I don't think it is a month old- about a week I made my offer, it was accepted, I sent my check to the title company, and it was submitted to ROFR. Just waiting to hear more from Disney or the title company. Hoping all goes well!

 

[motherof5]

Thanks! I don't think it is a month old- about a week I made my offer, it was accepted, I sent my check to the title company, and it was submitted to ROFR. Just waiting to hear more from Disney or the title company. Hoping all goes well!

Sending pixie dust your way. I have a positive feeling