I'm insulted!

Originally posted by caitycaity
first of all, way to go with the generalizations.

I already apologized for those generalizations.
I shouldn't have put words in his mouth, or made assumptions.
But neither should he, and he has more at stake than I do.
Maybe it is true that no one in the crowd makes more that 200k per year, but he could have thought of a better way to say it.
 
Two things:

I too am wondering about all of John Kerry's Plans. I think it's kinda weird when he says go to JohnKerry.com to see them- you can't just rattle off a few facts?

And you know, I think if a married couple files their taxes jointly, it's very common for two working middle aged adults to be in an income bracket of $200,000. I bet my parents are. I bet my in-laws were when they worked. One set was two elementary school teachers who had college degrees and worked to the top of their earnings bracket, and my father in law also did insurance adjusting on the side. My parents- my mom is a nurse manager and my dad works for the sewer district as a laborer. Nothing high brow, but hard working people in their 50's (or early 60's) who make decent money individually, but put together earn over that $200,000 mark. I would hardly call either set of parents "rich" but very middle class. Upper middle class I guess, but certainly not flashy millionaires!
 
And you know, I think if a married couple files their taxes jointly, it's very common for two working middle aged adults to be in an income bracket of $200,000.

maybe in your circle of friends, but trust me this is certainly not the norm in most of america. i would definitely not say it is common.

ETA: here is a link to median household (that would be everyone who's earning money in the household) incomes. the highest ones are around $55K.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/income03/statemhi.html
 
Originally posted by peachgirl
I have a question....how many internets are there and what does imbridge mean???
You know, I had those exact same questions as I was watching the debate. Anyone here know the answers??????
 

Originally posted by dumboiu
You know, I had those exact same questions as I was watching the debate. Anyone here know the answers??????

It was answered in a previous reply. There are 2.
 
Originally posted by caitycaity
maybe in your circle of friends, but trust me this is certainly not the norm in most of america. i would definitely not say it is common.

ETA: here is a link to median household (that would be everyone who's earning money in the household) incomes. the highest ones are around $55K.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/income03/statemhi.html

Ya know, my point was, if you looked at any of our parents individually, just *looking* at them, you wouldn't peg them in the $200,000 range. And that two people together can more easily make $200,000 than just one individual. But you take someone who has worked in a decent profession (teaching, nursing), who has worked darn hard their whole lives, continued their educations to get Master's Degrees (in their 40's), slowly moved up the ladder..yeah, most likely they are going to be earning over $100,000 if they live in a metropolitan area. Police officers- same thing. I know my husband's boss made big bucks before he retired as a police lt.

What I'm trying to say as these are not lofty, unattainable professions.
 
What I'm trying to say as these are not lofty, unattainable professions.

yeah, but obviously most people do not have household incomes anywhere close to $200K. i incerely hope that dh and i attain that level of income in our live, but i know several of my friends are in professions where no matter how hard they work, they're never going to make $100K/year. i know couples who both have ph.d.'s who don't make a combined income of $100K. my only point was that it is hardly common.
 
Originally posted by julia & nicks mom
I am sick of Kerry telling us he has a plan - I want to hear his plan!!!

Exactly! Even the detailed plan sections of johnkerry.com don't have any plans!
 
Here's a piece from the Wall Street Journal about Kerry and Edward's tax dodging.

Wall Street Journal

Liberal Loopholes

Edwards and Kerry want to raise taxes, but aren't wild about paying them.

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

In embracing John Edwards, John Kerry has also endorsed his populist "two Americas" rhetoric and has put tax increases at the center of the election campaign. So it's fair to ask the two Democrats: How much of those tax increases will actually hit the super-rich like yourselves, and how much will end up on the backs of upper middle-class wage earners?

For an answer, let's look at what the two Senators have themselves been paying in taxes. It turns out that the Kerrys and Edwards have exploited plenty of tax loopholes over the years. Of course, nobody is obligated to pay more than what the letter of the law requires. But the complex tax code benefits the wealthy, who can afford tax attorneys and complicated schemes to skirt the law. And high marginal rates give them plenty of incentive to do so.

Senator Edwards talks about the need to provide health care for all, but that didn't stop him from using a clever tax dodge to avoid paying $591,000 into the Medicare system. While making his fortune as a trial lawyer in 1995, he formed what is known as a "subchapter S" corporation, with himself as the sole shareholder.

Instead of taking his $26.9 million in earnings directly in the following four years, he paid himself a salary of $360,000 a year and took the rest as corporate dividends. Since salary is subject to 2.9% Medicare tax but dividends aren't, that meant he shielded more than 90% of his income. That's not necessarily illegal, but dodging such a large chunk of employment tax skates perilously close to the line.

The Internal Revenue Service takes a dim view of such operations and "may collapse the structure entirely and argue the S corporation is not truly a separate entity," in the words of Tax Adviser magazine. Attorney CPA magazine lists it as No. 11 of its "15 best underutilized tax loopholes," but warns that the IRS "has successfully litigated cases against individuals, particularly sole shareholders of personal service S corporations, reclassifying such deemed distributions as wages subject to social security taxes."

As a political matter, the dodge is especially hypocritical because the income limits on which Medicare taxes are paid were lifted by Democrats in 1993 specifically to hit "the rich," as Mr. Edwards likes to call people in his tax bracket. And the supreme irony? Mr. Edwards has claimed that he set up the subchapter S company to protect himself from legal liability. You know it's time for tort reform when even the trial lawyers say they're afraid of getting sued.

Senator Kerry's personal finances are not so complicated, since most of his income comes from his government salary and a modest inheritance. But he owes his jet-setting lifestyle and indeed some of his political success to the wealth of his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry. Her personal assets have been estimated at up to $3.2 billion, and the couple travel among their five houses scattered around the U.S. on a $35 million Gulfstream V jet. During a tough election for the Senate in 1996, Mr. Kerry sidestepped a gentleman's agreement with opponent William Weld to limit the spending of personal wealth on either side to $500,000 by having his campaign borrow $1.7 million from his wife.

Mrs. Heinz Kerry's finances remain largely a closed book, since she has so far refused to release her tax returns. What we do know so far is that she has prepaid $750,000 in federal taxes on $5.1 million in income for 2003--an effective tax rate of 15%. That is because a significant portion of the income came from tax-free municipal bonds, which is perfectly legal.

Even so, her net income must be much higher. We know that since the death of her husband John Heinz in 1991, Mrs. Heinz Kerry has invested shrewdly and possibly even doubled her inheritance. Even if one takes a conservative estimate of her net worth, say $1 billion, an income of $5.1 million means a paltry return of just 0.5%. More likely, the majority of her investment income is sheltered within trusts so that tax is deferred until she or her family actually wants to spend it. Again, perfectly legal, but this is a luxury that the average middle-class professional working for a wage does not have. These are the non-rich who will pay the bulk of any Kerry tax increase.

So when John Kerry and John Edwards say that they want to tax the wealthiest Americans, let's be clear about what they really mean. They want to tax the most productive people at higher marginal rates and close loopholes for corporations, while they themselves dodge taxes by exploiting loopholes they plan to preserve.

Mr. Edwards is right that there really are two Americas. The people who work for their money and want to keep more of their own paychecks. And wealthy politicians who want to raise taxes on the middle class secure in the knowledge that they won't have to pay.
 
Well, as a liberal, I too wondered how John Kerry surmised
the income of the people in the room. Then I remembered
that the room was made up of "undecided" voters and I figure
any couple with a combined income of $200,000 or more has their minds made up. I bet George Bush thinks so too.
 
Originally posted by Alice28

I too am wondering about all of John Kerry's Plans. I think it's kinda weird when he says go to JohnKerry.com to see them- you can't just rattle off a few facts?


Well, if these demographics are true:
the median annual income in st. louis (i.e. non-rural missouri) in 2003 was $32,700

It is entirely possible that the audience in attendance couldn't afford a computer and internet access to read JohnKerry.com.
Therefore, he may have lost a few votes by not giving those details about "his plan".
No offense to any DIS members who actually live in Missouri. I just wanted to make the point that Kerry shouldn't make assumptions like that.
 
Originally posted by Alice28
Two things:

I too am wondering about all of John Kerry's Plans. I think it's kinda weird when he says go to JohnKerry.com to see them- you can't just rattle off a few facts?

And you know, I think if a married couple files their taxes jointly, it's very common for two working middle aged adults to be in an income bracket of $200,000. I bet my parents are. I bet my in-laws were when they worked. One set was two elementary school teachers who had college degrees and worked to the top of their earnings bracket, and my father in law also did insurance adjusting on the side. My parents- my mom is a nurse manager and my dad works for the sewer district as a laborer. Nothing high brow, but hard working people in their 50's (or early 60's) who make decent money individually, but put together earn over that $200,000 mark. I would hardly call either set of parents "rich" but very middle class. Upper middle class I guess, but certainly not flashy millionaires!

I would call a family making over $200,000 a years RICH. Sorry, but they are. I consider my family "middle class" combined, we make about $80,000 a year. If $80,000 is middle, then $200,000 can't be in the middle also. It is too far away from $80,000.

Also, Kerry's said his tax plan will only effect the top 1% of the financial bracket. The top 1% are those making over $200,000 a year. If only 1% of the country is making over $200,000, then they are not average, IMO.
 
We have to remember the small businesses out there. It's easy to make $200,000+ and still be considered small. These same businesses are helping the economy by providing jobs and products to the rest of us. I hate the thought of punishing them by taxing them more. Small businesses have a tough enough time trying to stay in business w/ liability insurance and wages and health insurance and such going up and they greatly benefit the economy. Their backs are breaking and we want to tax them more? We are squashing their capitalist spirit which is the back bone of our nation. I think it's the wrong thing to do. And we are going to run them out of business and ultimately hurt our economy.
 
Originally posted by Alice28
Two things:

I too am wondering about all of John Kerry's Plans. I think it's kinda weird when he says go to JohnKerry.com to see them- you can't just rattle off a few facts?

And you know, I think if a married couple files their taxes jointly, it's very common for two working middle aged adults to be in an income bracket of $200,000. I bet my parents are. I bet my in-laws were when they worked. One set was two elementary school teachers who had college degrees and worked to the top of their earnings bracket, and my father in law also did insurance adjusting on the side. My parents- my mom is a nurse manager and my dad works for the sewer district as a laborer. Nothing high brow, but hard working people in their 50's (or early 60's) who make decent money individually, but put together earn over that $200,000 mark. I would hardly call either set of parents "rich" but very middle class. Upper middle class I guess, but certainly not flashy millionaires!


Alice, instead of guessing (betting) what your family members make why not find out?

I have several family members who have their masters and who also are at the top of their earnings bracket.....they get nowhere NEAR $100,000 per year paychecks! One is at $62,000 and the other at $70,000. The other friends and family who are teachers make $40,000-$55,000........and all are in big metropolitan areas.
I know for a fact my sisters school principal only makes $92,000, so even if a family has two school principals they still don't hit that $200,000 mark you seem to feel every hard working couple should be making.

The laborers in our family (my husband for one) make $70,000 per year IF they get plenty of overtime.

You think the nurse manager and the laborer for the sewer district make $200,000 between them? I'd be willing to bet that they don't.
 
Originally posted by Disney Enthusiast
We have to remember the small businesses out there. It's easy to make $200,000+ and still be considered small. These same businesses are helping the economy by providing jobs and products to the rest of us. I hate the thought of punishing them by taxing them more. Small businesses have a tough enough time trying to stay in business w/ liability insurance and wages and health insurance and such going up and they greatly benefit the economy. Their backs are breaking and we want to tax them more? We are squashing their capitalist spirit which is the back bone of our nation. I think it's the wrong thing to do. And we are going to run them out of business and ultimately hurt our economy.

That is exactly what Bush was trying to drive home! I think either President should focus on taxing the SUPER RICH like the people who make over a million dollars a year! Why have the bar as low as $200,000?..while I will always consider someone who makes $200,000 a year rich, it still is not even half of a million dollars. I think we have enough millionaires/billionaires in this country that if we tax them, it will take some burden off the "little guy"
 
Um....I can tell you how he came up with that number.

How many people were in the audience? Now multiply it by 1% (the % of people making >$200K) and there you go. It looks like there were more than 100 people in the audience so it sounds as though he was even being a little generous in his estimation.


As for Kerry and Edwards dodging taxes, everyone who feels as though the rich shouldn't be taxed should take note. Most of the wealthy use those strategies on a consistent basis. They have people that help them to avoid paying all of the taxes they should so stop feeling sorry for them.

As for people who have small businesses, all of their business expenses are deductible and (as illustrated by the Edwards example) there are strategies available to them that help them to avoid higher taxes. Also $200,000 of income for a small business is not gross income but net income (Revenue minus expenses).
 
Originally posted by DisMN
Alice, instead of guessing (betting) what your family members make why not find out?

I have several family members who have their masters and who also are at the top of their earnings bracket.....they get nowhere NEAR $100,000 per year paychecks! One is at $62,000 and the other at $70,000. The other friends and family who are teachers make $40,000-$55,000........and all are in big metropolitan areas.
I know for a fact my sisters school principal only makes $92,000, so even if a family has two school principals they still don't hit that $200,000 mark you seem to feel every hard working couple should be making.

The laborers in our family (my husband for one) make $70,000 per year IF they get plenty of overtime.

You think the nurse manager and the laborer for the sewer district make $200,000 between them? I'd be willing to bet that they don't.

Okay, not to be braggy, but I know for a fact (cause she's told me) that my mom makes over $120,000 a year and my dad makes somewhere in the 70,000 range (he recently became a supervisor).

Caveat- the live in the Bay Area. Jobs pay well there because it is expensive to live there. But I bet in other more expensive areas of the country jobs pay like that as well; I know here in Portland jobs pay almost as much as they do in San Fran/San Jose cause it's not cheap to live here either, same with NYC area and others.

I know upon retirement a couple of years ago, my inlaws made around 85,000- 90,000 each (cause they told me), and then my father in law did the insurance adjusting in the summer.
 
Would it work out better for a married couple to file seperately rather than jointly if thy are going to get hit if they make over $200K combined? Mind you, I am single so i don't know how all the filing jointly tax stuff works, and this is also why I have an accountant.
 
Originally posted by Disney Enthusiast
We have to remember the small businesses out there. It's easy to make $200,000+ and still be considered small. These same businesses are helping the economy by providing jobs and products to the rest of us. I hate the thought of punishing them by taxing them more. Small businesses have a tough enough time trying to stay in business w/ liability insurance and wages and health insurance and such going up and they greatly benefit the economy. Their backs are breaking and we want to tax them more? We are squashing their capitalist spirit which is the back bone of our nation. I think it's the wrong thing to do. And we are going to run them out of business and ultimately hurt our economy.

Businesses are taxed on their profit (after expenses) not on their gross or net income. A business that makes a PROFIT of $200,000 a year is not a typical small business..... With the increase in liability insurance, health insurance, etc... it is very difficult for a business to make a profit of $200,000 a year unles they are making an income in the millions.
 
We were amazed that Kerry was so rude as to assume that no one in the audience could possibly be making $200+. And like other posters, I still waiting to hear the specifics of his plans. He says he has a plan for everything but won't elaborate. Maybe he would win more voters if he would give us more info!
 


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Add as a preferred source on Google

Back
Top Bottom