I'm guessing our family is done with Disney

[pilferk]

Well now you're giving ME wood.......

They loan me out, on occasion.

But they don't let me do private consulting.

 

[mesaboy2]

Okay now you're giving ME wood.......

I think I'm gonna get outta the car now....

 

[AmyB2006]

Fair enough and I am genuinely happy that others are now enjoying what fast passes are meant for and even happier to know that you don't blame avid FP- users for taking advantage of the "honor system" as some have described. I hope you don't mind my asking, but why was the old system's set up not working for you? The system itself was very simplistic.

Sorry wasn't able to get back till now. I don't blame super users at all.

Why didn't it work? Well the easiest answer is that my family was never crazy about having to go to one area of the park skipping other favorites along the way to go get the FP then having to go to other rides to wait for our return time, etc. I have two littles, a father with two bum knees, and a DH that hates Disney and only tolerates it for me. Lol. So it's a fine balancing act of trying to cram stuff in without overwhelming anyone. If I planned like I used to, the family would be all stressed. I'm like... How much can I cram into a day ?? They're all like... Let's just take it easy and meander here and there and people watch. :/

I actually used to be somewhat of a super user when I was younger. But I've had to slow down because it was stressing out my husband. So now we go, we do what we can and make the best of our time. We'd get the ocasional FP. We know we'll be back in a few months cause we go 3 times a year.

Now with FP + it's nice to have certain rides scheduled. I don't like the tiers though.

 

[surferdave]

Did they actually state they thought FP+ would keep guests in the parks longer?

I know they've stated they think it will contribute to increased guest spending, but I don't think they need to keep them in the parks longer to realize that; increased spending could also happen at the resort or DTD.

Like you, I believe that it's possible to spend less time in the park and that could translate into increased guest turnover which in of itself could provide the "increased spending" they've discussed.

This has been my thinking as well. I don't think they want people in the parks for longer, unless they are shopping and dining. I think they want you in to do your three rides, eat, shop, and then leave to make room for the next wave. It's a classic restaurant business model for table turnover, on a much larger and more technological scale.

I shouldn't have said parks, I quoted that from the previous poster's text, I think the Disney exec actually said Disney property. He definitely said that the advantage of the system was that people who plan their days ahead of time stay on property more and don't leave to do all of the other things that Orlando has to offer that wouldn't be there if it weren't for WDW. I suspect you guys are right that they would like more guests to get in and out of the parks more quickly to make more room for others, as long as they then head for DTD, the Boardwalk, a resort or a golf course instead of Sea World.

But I believe that description was for the more simple minded investors who want to see payoff sooner than later, and don't have time or attention span for pilferk's heuristics. What Disney really wants is the customer data. They're putting hundreds of CMs on the phones, in the parks and filling envelopes to go in the mail to make sure guests use the new system when they didn't care if anyone used the old one, and they have the nerve to claim that people are using the new system more because they like it better.

 

[btk2333]

And are you willing to wait 60-120 minutes in line, in order to ride more than 3 rides per day? 30 minutes is my limit. I may wait 45 for the Tower of Terror, but that is seriously pushing the limits of my patience.

If you travel during low attendance periods, this system will work fine. It worked fine for a lot of January people, even though the standby waits for Pirates and HM seem to be steadily growing. The standby waits at DHS are still ridiculous, but that will likely never change.

We will see. During busy times it was hard to use >3 legacy FP at DHS and EPCOT (for TSM, RnRC, TT, and Soarin) anyway. You had to arrive at RD and be efficient with your usage. At MK, it will definitely be a downgrade, but if you arrive at RD and plan your FPP efficiently I have confidence it can be done- just like the legacy system and I probably have a less forgiving willingness to wait than you do. I would never wait 20 minutes for anything, except for a La Cava margarita which sadly does not offer a FPP.

 

[pilferk]

I shouldn't have said parks, I quoted that from the previous poster's text, I think the Disney exec actually said Disney property. He definitely said that the advantage of the system was that people who plan their days ahead of time stay on property more and don't leave to do all of the other things that Orlando has to offer that wouldn't be there if it weren't for WDW. I suspect you guys are right that they would like more guests to get in and out of the parks more quickly to make more room for others, as long as they then head for DTD, the Boardwalk, a resort or a golf course instead of Sea World.

But I believe that description was for the more simple minded investors who want to see payoff sooner than later, and don't have time or attention span for pilferk's heuristics. What Disney really wants is the customer data. They're putting hundreds of CMs on the phones, in the parks and filling envelopes to go in the mail to make sure guests use the new system when they didn't care if anyone used the old one, and they have the nerve to claim that people are using the new system more because they like it better.

And here's the million (or billion) dollar answer to the question I keep asking but no one has directly tackled.

The answer, IMHO, is that they could have increased use similarly with fp legacy, with similar efforts.

But they had no real compelling reason to do so.

With fp+, they do. It's not fairness. It's not customer service or guest experience. It's that to make all these backend, and front end, system changes pay off...they have to get as many people as possible to use the system. Everything else is ancillary.

Now, they aren't going to sell that to the stockholders until they have concrete outcomes. That would be foolish. And there are other economies and efficiencies they can sell, first. THEN when (if) they meet their usage targets, and the data comes pouring in and the systems start letting execs make real time, super informed decisions ( and then the systems get to make them based on modeling rules)..THEN you extol their benefits and look like a genius.

 

[pilferk]

We will see. During busy times it was hard to use >3 legacy FP at DHS and EPCOT (for TSM, RnRC, TT, and Soarin) anyway. You had to arrive at RD and be efficient with your usage. At MK, it will definitely be a downgrade, but if you arrive at RD and plan your FPP efficiently I have confidence it can be done- just like the legacy system and I probably have a less forgiving willingness to wait than you do. I would never wait 20 minutes for anything, except for a La Cava margarita which sadly does not offer a FPP.

Don't give them any ideas...wait, or maybe you should!

 

[jade1]

Let's do this with math.

You used to get zero FPs. Now you get three. To determine the percentage of improvement, multiply your previous experience by the current experience.

0 X 3 = ?

Crap, no improvement for us.

 

[clsteve]

I think I'm gonna get outta the car now....

I would.... Instead, Go hit the pool and have some pie, or some broccoli. Or is it hit the broccoli and have some pool ---- I don't know, the past few posts have me a bit confused...

 

[surferdave]

And here's the million (or billion) dollar answer to the question I keep asking but no one has directly tackled.

The answer, IMHO, is that they could have increased use similarly with fp legacy, with similar efforts.

But they had no real compelling reason to do so.

With fp+, they do. It's not fairness. It's not customer service or guest experience. It's that to make all these backend, and front end, system changes pay off...they have to get as many people as possible to use the system. Everything else is ancillary.

Now, they aren't going to sell that to the stockholders until they have concrete outcomes. That would be foolish. And there are other economies and efficiencies they can sell, first. THEN when (if) they meet their usage targets, and the data comes pouring in and the systems start letting execs make real time, super informed decisions ( and then the systems get to make them based on modeling rules)..THEN you extol their benefits and look like a genius.

You're cutting through all the crap as eloquently as Tim Russert did during the 2000 election, when he trumped all the high tech analysis with the five dollar white board that said "Florida Florida Florida". Right now the data is all that matters. The way they see it they'll use it to figure out what we all want after we pay them to get it for a few years.

 

[wisblue]

And are you willing to wait 60-120 minutes in line, in order to ride more than 3 rides per day? 30 minutes is my limit. I may wait 45 for the Tower of Terror, but that is seriously pushing the limits of my patience.

If you travel during low attendance periods, this system will work fine. It worked fine for a lot of January people, 'even though the standby waits for Pirates and HM seem to be steadily growing. The standby waits at DHS are still ridiculous, but that will likely never change.

No, I am almost never willing to wait that long, and we never have to. And most of our trips have been at Christmas and Easter.

We did wait 90 minutes for Test Track the year it first opened because it was down when we were at the park in the morning, so on our last day we decided to wait. Sometimes we will wait over 30 minutes at the end of a trip when we decide for one more ride on a favorite when we have already done everything else we wanted to do. With FP+ we probably won't have to do that any more.

By getting to a park at opening every day, and taking advantage of AM EMH when it's available, we can do all of the headliners at each park before the lines get long. At MK it takes about 3 hours, and in the other 3 it takes less than 1.

Those long lines in the middle of the day are of no consequence to us because we are almost never there to see them.

 

[jade1]

No, I am almost never willing to wait that long, and we never have to. And most of our trips have been at Christmas and Easter.

We did wait 90 minutes for Test Track the year it first opened because it was down when we were at the park in the morning, so on our last day we decided to wait. Sometimes we will wait over 30 minutes at the end of a trip when we decide for one more ride on a favorite when we have already done everything else we wanted to do. With FP+ we probably won't have to do that any more.

By getting to a park at opening every day, and taking advantage of AM EMH when it's available, we can do all of the headliners at each park before the lines get long. At MK it takes about 3 hours, and in the other 3 it takes less than 1.

Those long lines in the middle of the day are of no consequence to us because we are almost never there to see them.

So 3 FP+ for the 2nd park that eve?

 

[onelugnut]

we are done too,
i have posted here before negatively about FP+ and everyone said to wait and give it a chance,
well, just got back and i am sure now.
See in the reports section under "1st week in Feb, W/ honest FP+ eval", for my RANT!

 

[ssledoux]

I'm heading to WDW in 12 days. It'll be my first trip with MB and FP+. I have experienced a little frustration with choosing my times, but I think it'll work well for us and here is why:

We ARE rope-drop people. We will go straight to our first pick and ride it several times in a row. We can then FP+ another top ride in a 10-11 window. After that, depending on park, we do a few other attractions, maybe see a show, then head to an attraction on the other side of the park and use our FP+ (one we would've had to run to get a paper FP for in the past), then the same for picking an evening attraction. I think, especially with needing to please small children AND adults, this is going to work out better for us.

I do hope that they will eventually offer more FP+ picks, but I'm generally an off-season goer and I'm gonna keep it that way anyway. I spent way too many summers in WDW in LONG lines. I like slow times!

 

[redrosesix]

No, I am almost never willing to wait that long, and we never have to. And most of our trips have been at Christmas and Easter.

We did wait 90 minutes for Test Track the year it first opened because it was down when we were at the park in the morning, so on our last day we decided to wait. Sometimes we will wait over 30 minutes at the end of a trip when we decide for one more ride on a favorite when we have already done everything else we wanted to do. With FP+ we probably won't have to do that any more.

By getting to a park at opening every day, and taking advantage of AM EMH when it's available, we can do all of the headliners at each park before the lines get long. At MK it takes about 3 hours, and in the other 3 it takes less than 1.

Those long lines in the middle of the day are of no consequence to us because we are almost never there to see them.

This is us too. We have am EMH at AK tomorrow and we'll be there First park day this year. While everyone is waiting in those long lines at the parks in the afternoon we'll be...swimming. Then on to MK til 10 pm.

I have to say a lot of people here at the resort are not too happy with the new system, especially one family that used a TA to book their trip and didn't know about it until they arrived here. Of course, I get that if you use a TA you don't expect to have to do research on your own. They have been here but they're not Disney fans like Dis members are so they didn't keep up with the changes. The biggest complaint about FP+ is from people on DDP -- their ADRs are running really really late and it's messing everything up. But by the time you finish dinner the fp's are gone for the day so there's not much to change too. Yesterday the whole system went down for a while. We were at concierge today and we were the only ones not dealing with fp+.

The main problem with fp+ is it doesn't exist within a vacuum.

On a side note, one man told me they worked so hard to get a dinner reservation for BOG, checking for cancellations etc. Got to the restaurant to find it was 35-40 percent empty. Only 5 tables in their section had people seated -- I haven't been there yet so I don't know really how that compares to capacity. But he was obviously a well informed veteran, and is here on the DDP...again... and he was very critical of the how that's working this year. Something else is obviously different besides the fp system if he's right.

 

[Angel Ariel]

On a side note, one man told me they worked so hard to get a dinner reservation for BOG, checking for cancellations etc. Got to the restaurant to find it was 35-40 percent empty. Only 5 tables in their section had people seated -- I haven't been there yet so I don't know really how that compares to capacity. But he was obviously a well informed veteran, and is here on the DDP...again... and he was very critical of the how that's working this year. Something else is obviously different besides the fp system if he's right.

On a side note..we noticed something similar with BOG in October. I looked and looked for reservations for all 7 of us, and I couldn't get them. I ended up settling for a reservation for 3, and a reservation for 4 on different days (which ended up working out well for other reasons, but I digress). When we showed up to the first reservation (for 3, originally) we had a 4:30 ADR. The restaurant was virtually empty until after 5pm - including a table that would have fit our entire party only a few tables over for us that wasn't filled until we were ready to leave (this was in the main ballroom).

It was frustrating to have gone to the lengths we did to get BOG reservations, to have to split up, only to see a restaurant full of empty tables for practically our entire meal.

 

[DougEMG]

3 rides with the FPs
A few more second and third-tier rides
A show
Maybe a parade
Eat
Have a snack

I'd say they want people to spend about 6 hours at the park and then go back and enjoy their Walt Disney World Resort.

So what price would most people pay to only do that in a day. For me, $20-30 is about the most I would want to pay for that. And forget about ever buying a single day ticket.

As a previous poster said, it all comes down to how much value one expects to get for what they are paying.

 

[bcrook]

This is us too. We have am EMH at AK tomorrow and we'll be there First park day this year. While everyone is waiting in those long lines at the parks in the afternoon we'll be...swimming. Then on to MK til 10 pm.

I have to say a lot of people here at the resort are not too happy with the new system, especially one family that used a TA to book their trip and didn't know about it until they arrived here. Of course, I get that if you use a TA you don't expect to have to do research on your own. They have been here but they're not Disney fans like Dis members are so they didn't keep up with the changes. The biggest complaint about FP+ is from people on DDP -- their ADRs are running really really late and it's messing everything up. But by the time you finish dinner the fp's are gone for the day so there's not much to change too. Yesterday the whole system went down for a while. We were at concierge today and we were the only ones not dealing with fp+.

The main problem with fp+ is it doesn't exist within a vacuum.

On a side note, one man told me they worked so hard to get a dinner reservation for BOG, checking for cancellations etc. Got to the restaurant to find it was 35-40 percent empty. Only 5 tables in their section had people seated -- I haven't been there yet so I don't know really how that compares to capacity. But he was obviously a well informed veteran, and is here on the DDP...again... and he was very critical of the how that's working this year. Something else is obviously different besides the fp system if he's right.

This is all fascinating. BOG, TA, and late ADRs. I like the bolded quote.

 

[Ellwood970]

Disney is squeezing every penny out of operations that they can. One only has to look around the park to see this. It will result in erosion of customer satisfaction.

 

[Mickeynutty]

Disney is squeezing every penny out of operations that they can. One only has to look around the park to see this. It will result in erosion of customer satisfaction.

Yes, I think it will. We just got back and guests and CMs seemed VERY stressed!!