If you don't...

[taylor3297]

I agree with the OP. When my stepdad died, he did not have a will. So my mother hired a lawyer to handle things according to the law. My stepsisters did not like that since they thought my mother should not have anything. It was quite ugly.

 

[DVCLiz]

She's content to wait for an appointment, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a lawyer to have a filing system that enables him to determine within just a few minutes whether or not someone does, or does not, have a will. Maybe at a huge law firm, but the entire town only has 640 people.

Tax season or not, a decent human being should be able to take a few minutes to find that out for a woman whose husband was just murdered.

If she or her husband had been a current client of this lawyer, I would agree. However, if they are in the files of a retired lawyer I don't think it's reasonable to expect that they are handy with just a few minute's worth of searching. I expect they are stored and even though YOU would like it to be a priority, I would say that finishing taxes for clients with a deadline of less than a week away is more important than finding a will for someone who is - let's face it - not going to change that status.

It has nothing to do with the method of death or being a decent human being - it's probably a small office with limited support and the week before tax deadline is very busy. If he says he doesn't have time to search until after April 15th, I would think anyone would understand that.

 

[mrsklamc]

If she or her husband had been a current client of this lawyer, I would agree.

They were. He had done other legal work for them recently, just not the will. And even though the status is not going to change, it DOES matter to have a heart when someone is going through a traumatic situation. It DOES have everything to do with basic human decency.

 

[DVCLiz]

They were.

I'm sorry, I thought you said the lawyer had retired and that they were now dealing with his son.

 

[mrsklamc]

I'm sorry, I thought you said the lawyer had retired and that they were now dealing with his son.

The lawyer who would have done the will is retired, but they were still current clients of the son.

 

[DVCLiz]

The lawyer who would have done the will is retired, but they were still current clients of the son.

Regardless of the circumstances, it is still a busy week and expecting someone who has clients with time-sensitive deadlines to drop that work to find your family's will - and implying that they are not a decent human being if they won't - is wrong to me.

Anyway, I wish you and your mom the best. It is frustrating to have to deal with other relatives and greed at a time when you should be left alone to mourn.

 

[mrsklamc]

Regardless of the circumstances, it is still a busy week and expecting someone who has clients with time-sensitive deadlines to drop that work to find your family's will - and implying that they are not a decent human being if they won't - is wrong to me.

Well, then we disagree. I think it's wrong to not have a bit of compassion in this situation.

If his other clients waited til the last minute to get their tax paperwork in order, then it won't hurt them to file an extension while he takes fifteen minutes to find out whether there is or is not a will in their file, and if he/his father are competent lawyers at all, any filing system should allow that to be a quick process.

And the world has a way of working itself out- regardless of whether they were past/current clients- she certainly will not be a future one!

Let me clarify as well- my mother has virtually no assets of her own and a minimum wage job. We are talking about her entire financial life hinging on this, not just how much $ someone may or may not owe the govt.

 

[prncess674]

I think you are being unreasonable. The death was unexpected and tax week is the busiest week. They are literally working around the clock trying to make the tax filing deadline. You are asking them drop work from paying clients to give you immediate satisfaction. Take a deep breath. It isn't the lawyer's fault that he was murdered. Give him a few days to locate the file which may be buried in boxes since the will was drafted many years ago by a retired lawyer in the firm. Yes, the son may have done some current work for your family, but that doesn't mean he has the will at his fingertips. If this man had a will why did he not leave a copy with your mother, any other family member or in a safety deposit box. Has your mother done a search of his papers in the house looking for a copy of the will?

 

[tinkarooni]

Why is it that someone dieing brings all the rats out of the woodwork? Although I guess it's not dieing, it's money.

OP, sorry for your loss and all the complications.

 

[DVCLiz]

Well, then we disagree. I think it's wrong to not have a bit of compassion in this situation.

If his other clients waited til the last minute to get their tax paperwork in order, then it won't hurt them to file an extension while he takes fifteen minutes to find out whether there is or is not a will in their file, and if he/his father are competent lawyers at all, any filing system should allow that to be a quick process.

And the world has a way of working itself out- regardless of whether they were past/current clients- she certainly will not be a future one!

Let me clarify as well- my mother has virtually no assets of her own and a minimum wage job. We are talking about her entire financial life hinging on this, not just how much $ someone may or may not owe the govt.

OK, now you must be kidding. Are you seriously telling me that you expect my lawyer to force me to file an extension on my taxes so that another client who used the services of a retired partner in the firm can learn whether or not a will - a will that the dead person SHOULD HAVE prepared and kept current AND made sure his wife knew about and had easy acccess to - is also stored at the law office?

Wow. I don't even know what to say to that.

 

[DVCLiz]

They were. He had done other legal work for them recently, just not the will. And even though the status is not going to change, it DOES matter to have a heart when someone is going through a traumatic situation. It DOES have everything to do with basic human decency.

I see you have edited this post. So we will have to disagree. The legal system works because it follows laws and rules, not because it is known for its heart and compassion. There is a work flow in a legal office and stopping to search for somethng - even if it SHOULD have been better organized - during tax week is not an efficient use of time or resources.

 

[mrsklamc]

I think you are being unreasonable. The death was unexpected and tax week is the busiest week. They are literally working around the clock trying to make the tax filing deadline. You are asking them drop work from paying clients to give you immediate satisfaction. Take a deep breath. It isn't the lawyer's fault that he was murdered. Give him a few days to locate the file which may be buried in boxes since the will was drafted many years ago by a retired lawyer in the firm. Yes, the son may have done some current work for your family, but that doesn't mean he has the will at his fingertips. If this man had a will why did he not leave a copy with your mother, any other family member or in a safety deposit box. Has your mother done a search of his papers in the house looking for a copy of the will?

You are entitled to your opinion that I'm being unreasonable. My mother is a paying client as well- the same lawyer did their taxes months ago. My personal opinion is that it was the lawyer's job to make sure he had all files in reasonable order BEFORE tax season, as he has been practicing for several years and though the death was unexpected, tax season is not. Yes, the man should have left a copy with my mother, which was the point of this thread originally. The murder/suicide took place in the house, so yes, she is trying to search his papers but it is difficult for her to be there for long.

 

[tinkarooni]

OK, now you must be kidding. Are you seriously telling me that you expect my lawyer to force me to file an extension on my taxes so that another client who used the services of a retired partner in the firm can learn whether or not a will - a will that the dead person SHOULD HAVE prepared and kept current AND made sure his wife knew about and had easy acccess to - is also stored at the law office?

Wow. I don't even know what to say to that.

I was thinking about this objectively and while I agree it's unfair for an atty to put off current clients, obviously previously scheduled, however I work with a fair number of attys and have to say, they would never go "looking" for this themselves. Couldn't a paralegal or secretary just pull the file and see if they have a copy? I really think that this probably wouldn't take much time and than they could tell her if they do or don't have it, because I guess based on reading OP notes if they don't have it there are bigger problems involved here. I wouldn't think that it would take that much time for a clerk to look for the records, than schedule the appt with the atty for after tax season. Just my two cents, I think you're both sort of right.

 

[JB2K]

Have life insurance and a will please do it now...

My mom's DH died last week and people are seriously sickening.

Well-said -- my mother's DH passed-away last Christmas -- as he was terminally ill, they had some time to "finalize" everything.

As for the rest of you, out there, don't put it off!

 

[Gigi22]

You have my sympathies, OP. We had to wait to complete the probate process until my mother's estate lawyer was through her "busy season", due to the local "hot" real estate market--and then we had to wait until my DSis could get a few days off from her fishing resort to deal with some paperwork. With these delays, and getting the estate taxes paid and the estate released so that we could give the beneficiaries the final amounts owed to them, it took slightly over a year to settle Mom's estate--even although she had all her paperwork (we are in Canada, so for us this involves a will and two POAs, one for health and one for finance) complete.
We have been encouraging everyone we know to have these 3 documents done, and to keep them current--they should be altered with each major lifetime change, marriage, divorce, adoptions, etc.

 

[mrsklamc]

I was thinking about this objectively and while I agree it's unfair for an atty to put off current clients, obviously previously scheduled, however I work with a fair number of attys and have to say, they would never go "looking" for this themselves. Couldn't a paralegal or secretary just pull the file and see if they have a copy? I really think that this probably wouldn't take much time and than they could tell her if they do or don't have it, because I guess based on reading OP notes if they don't have it there are bigger problems involved here. I wouldn't think that it would take that much time for a clerk to look for the records, than schedule the appt with the atty for after tax season. Just my two cents, I think you're both sort of right.

Exactly. Most places hire extra help for tax season- there ought to be SOMEONE capable of taking a few minutes to look for this.

And I don't have a lot of sympathy for people waiting for April 15 for their tax appointment. My mother should now be less important than other clients paying for the same services, because she got her paperwork in order sooner?

 

[Sadie22]

To the OP, I am sorry for your family's loss and that you have to deal with a paperwork and real property deed mess. Your advice to others to get their documents in order rather than have to deal with additional stress at the time of the death of a loved one is right on.

Speaking from experience working for several law firms, the estate planning documents may be in safe storage which may take extra time to access, if the lawyer did keep the original. In our locality, clients have the option of filing wills with the Register of Wills at the county courthouse. It's worth inquiring to find out if the original might be there.

At some firms there is an index to documents on a computer system. Often some are indexed, some are not. At others a physical search is necessary, and depending on when and by whom documents were prepared the documents may be in one of several places, so it may indeed take time to locate documents.

The lawyer may not have held the original will. It may be in a safe deposit box (not recommended) or other location where the deceased stored papers. Most lawyers provide at least a conformed copy of a will to the client, so perhaps one will be found among the papers of the deceased.

As far as the real estate, a search can be done of the courthouse land records in the locality where the property is located to determine the chain of title.

 

[dallastxcpa]

I work for a local CPA firm were I live and telling a client they had to wait till after tax season for something would never fly.

Shame on that lawyer for not having a better filing system so that documents can be easily found. Files have to be kept in a way that they can be accessed. There are also laws that govern how long files have to be kept, usually 7 - 10 years. Even our files in storage are kept in and electronic directory where someone can easily determine exactly where in the storage facility the file is and the file is pulled within 24 hours.

Part of being a professional who works with clients is learning how to divide your time, delegate, and set deadlines. If our clients haven't gotten their paperwork in by a certain day we automatically print extensions for them.

OP I am so sorry for your loss and that your mother is having so much additional stress in this time of grieving.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

So sorry for your family's loss, OP.

Greed does horrible things to people. My mother passed away suddenly last February and my siblings have basically stripped the house of anything of value that belonged to her (and my Dad let them) within a week of her passing.

She did have a will but it left everything to my Dad. It is still going through probate.

 

[DVCLiz]

Exactly. Most places hire extra help for tax season- there ought to be SOMEONE capable of taking a few minutes to look for this.

And I don't have a lot of sympathy for people waiting for April 15 for their tax appointment. My mother should now be less important than other clients paying for the same services, because she got her paperwork in order sooner?

OP, I am truly sorry for your loss and you have every right to be upset for your mom. But, it's not a question of who had their paperwork in order and "got " there first. I had my paperwork to my accountant several weeks before I got the call - on April 14th - that my taxes were ready. It was just a question of the work flow and what they had planned and how they had staffed based on the anticipated amount of work. Stopping to do something that is less important to their bottom line just isn't going to happen.

To the OP, I am sorry for your family's loss and that you have to deal with a paperwork and real property deed mess. Your advice to others to get their documents in order rather than have to deal with additional stress at the time of the death of a loved one is right on.

Speaking from experience working for several law firms, the estate planning documents may be in safe storage which may take extra time to access, if the lawyer did keep the original. In our locality, clients have the option of filing wills with the Register of Wills at the county courthouse. It's worth inquiring to find out if the original might be there.

At some firms there is an index to documents on a computer system. Often some are indexed, some are not. At others a physical search is necessary, and depending on when and by whom documents were prepared the documents may be in one of several places, so it may indeed take time to locate documents.

The lawyer may not have held the original will. It may be in a safe deposit box (not recommended) or other location where the deceased stored papers. Most lawyers provide at least a conformed copy of a will to the client, so perhaps one will be found among the papers of the deceased.

As far as the real estate, a search can be done of the courthouse land records in the locality where the property is located to determine the chain of title.

I work for a local CPA firm were I live and telling a client they had to wait till after tax season for something would never fly.

Shame on that lawyer for not having a better filing system so that documents can be easily found. Files have to be kept in a way that they can be accessed. There are also laws that govern how long files have to be kept, usually 7 - 10 years. Even our files in storage are kept in and electronic directory where someone can easily determine exactly where in the storage facility the file is and the file is pulled within 24 hours.

Part of being a professional who works with clients is learning how to divide your time, delegate, and set deadlines. If our clients haven't gotten their paperwork in by a certain day we automatically print extensions for them.

OP I am so sorry for your loss and that your mother is having so much additional stress in this time of grieving.

Remember, though, that this is a twon with only 640 people. In thinking about this I have been imagining a small one or two person office, not a big law firm like the two of you are describing. In your cases yes, they absolutely should have a system in place to easily retrieve this - or a paralegal or secretary who could do it. But, for a small office with a retired lawyer, I do see that it could be time consuming and need to wait a week until tax season was over. That's really my only point.