If A Healthcare Provider Makes An Error...

[Disney Doll]

...would their handling of it once it was discovered determine how oyu would react?

For so many years in the medical profession, there were a lot of errors that were either swept under the rug or turned around so they didn't sseem liek the "establishment's" fault. I think this is especially true of hospitals.

My question to you is: Would you be less likely to take further action if an error was made and no harm occurred if the error was reproted, apologized for, and a plan of action made to see to it that it never happened again? In other words, if there was sincere regret on the part of the error-maker, and they were honest about what happened, would it change your reaction?

Or would you just sue the bejesus out of evryone anyhow?

PS- This question is inspired by the Walgreen's Pharmacy thread.

 

[Galahad]

...would their handling of it once it was discovered determine how oyu would react?

For so many years in the medical profession, there were a lot of errors that were either swept under the rug or turned around so they didn't sseem liek the "establishment's" fault. I think this is especially true of hospitals.

My question to you is: Would you be less likely to take further action if an error was made and no harm occurred if the error was reproted, apologized for, and a plan of action made to see to it that it never happened again? In other words, if there was sincere regret on the part of the error-maker, and they were honest about what happened, would it change your reaction?

Or would you just sue the bejesus out of evryone anyhow?

PS- This question is inspired by the Walgreen's Pharmacy thread.

Why would you sue anybody if no harm occurred?

 

[marybet]

Why would you sue anybody if no harm occurred?

That is a very good question. I often wonder when I read about some really strange lawsuits what the people are thinking. I think we do need a better method when a mistake is made.

I had a Dr.'s appointment at the outpatient facility of our local hospital. I got there signed in and then found out that the Dr. wasn't there that day. For my inconvenience I was given a $30 gift card. Granted I would never have sued for something like that but it showed that they were willing to acknowledge a mistake had been made.

Some people are just out to make a buck, and an apology would never be enough but I think there are a lot of people who would be satisfied knowing that the problem was being fixed.

 

[Maleficent13]

Why would you sue anybody if no harm occurred?

Why sue McD's for making the coffee hot? Why sue a fast food restaurant because you're fat?

People sue for a lot of stupid stuff. And I know that a lot of corporate policies these days are "Don't apologize for anything". Apologies can be seen (even legally) as an admission of guilt.

If it was me, and no harm was done, I'd move on, apology or no apology. No need to dwell on the past.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I couldn't see suing if no harm was done to more or no potential future harm could occur to me as a result of the one mistake.

HOWEVER--if that mistake could easily be harmful or deadly to someone else....I would very much report it to the appropriate outside agency. Sometimes it takes the outspoken ones to take care of the underdog.

(disclaimer--I didn't read the Walgreens thread, so have no idea what errors we are talking about. But with a pharmacy..an error here..an error there...well that could one day kill someone).

 

[crz4mm2]

I would never sue if no harm was done. I just can't imagine.... But then,I am a health care provider who has made mistakes (gee, can't believe that there are PERFECT providers out there who have NEVER made a mistake)....
I hope I never kill someone. I hope I never harm someone. But, I HAVE made mistakes.

I didn't read the Walgreens thread either.

Lawsuits drive me nuts. I think there are very few justifiable ones....

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

.

Lawsuits drive me nuts. I think there are very few justifiable ones....

I agree..I just had Erin Brokavich on the brain when I typed (even though that wasn't a medical provider lawsuit).

And I'm a specifics kind of gal--so the term "mistake" could cover a magnitude of things. And if there is a trend of similar type of mistakes...then that could be a problem that sweeping under the rug doesn't cure. JMHO.

I'm not a lawsuit type of person...but I am a tattletale when it is warranted.

 

[ChrisnSteph]

My question to you is: Would you be less likely to take further action if an error was made and no harm occurred if the error was reproted, apologized for, and a plan of action made to see to it that it never happened again? In other words, if there was sincere regret on the part of the error-maker, and they were honest about what happened, would it change your reaction?

Or would you just sue the bejesus out of evryone anyhow?

It's hard to say.

During my son's hospital admission, due to some poorly written instructions, a nurse accidently gave him three times the dose of a narcotic, and he stopped breathing. They were able to reverse it, but my son could have died. The nurse was in tears, everyone was apologizing, they had meetings and took steps to see that it wouldn't happen again. We were happy and satisfied with that. However, if my son had died as a result of that, I can't say that any of that would have appeased me.

 

[marlasmom]

When my son had surgery the surgeon came out and said "I accidentally left a staple in him." It won't do any harm but it will show up on an x-ray some day. By the way you can sue me if you want to. We gasped - we loved this man - and said sue you???? Of course we're not going to sue you. My son is fully grown now and the staple has never been a problem.

 

[crz4mm2]

I agree that mistakes are made and sometimes, they can do harm.
I have seen mistakes that have done harm. I have seen health care providers make mistakes and say "I am sorry". If I lost a loved one because of a mistake, I don't think 'I am sorry' would cut it either. BUT, if it was not intentional, I have to believe I would TRY to understand that WE are NOT perfect.

I have seen some pretty bad things happen through the years. One of the biggest mistakes I 'heard' about (not in either hospital I work at) resulted in the death of a child. The nurse involved made a mistake. IT was a terrific mistake. I don't know what I would have done, had the child been mine. The parents of the baby were very understanding. Steps were taken to prevent the mistake from never happening again. The parents did not sue. (and they would have WON without a doubt). They said it would not bring their baby back and the nurse was living with the punishment of her mistake every day and they wished she would not have to live with that. What wonderful people.

 

[Disney Doll]

It's hard to say.

During my son's hospital admission, due to some poorly written instructions, a nurse accidently gave him three times the dose of a narcotic, and he stopped breathing. They were able to reverse it, but my son could have died. The nurse was in tears, everyone was apologizing, they had meetings and took steps to see that it wouldn't happen again. We were happy and satisfied with that. However, if my son had died as a result of that, I can't say that any of that would have appeased me.

But see ChrisnSteph, you could have sued for that, and you probably would have won something for"emotional distress" or whatever, and I am not saying you wouldn't have deserved it, either. And certainly, if God forbid your child had died, you should have sued and would have won.

But, OTOH, people sue for the most ridiculous things and they win...someone brought up the McDonald's coffee thing & the suing fast food places because you're fat.

I guess a better way to phrase my question is if a healthcare provider makes an honest mistake, owns up to it, and rectifies it, do you immediately think "I'll sue for emotional distress"?

The reason I ask is because this has been a "hot topic" at my place of employment...being more forthcoming when errors occur. God knows, there is not a healthcare provider in the world who goes into work saying "let's see who I can harm today". There are those that aren't good at their jobs, there are those that aren't careful, there are those that do the bare minimum, there may be htose that don't really care. But in my experience. most of us really try our best to "do no harm". Being human, it happens anyway, in spite of our best efforts. But if someone made an honest mistake, you weren't drastically harmed and they sincerely apologized and owned up to it, would your first thought still be "sue"???

 

[Disney Doll]

I have seen some pretty bad things happen through the years. One of the biggest mistakes I 'heard' about (not in either hospital I work at) resulted in the death of a child. The nurse involved made a mistake. IT was a terrific mistake. I don't know what I would have done, had the child been mine. The parents of the baby were very understanding. Steps were taken to prevent the mistake from never happening again. The parents did not sue. (and they would have WON without a doubt). They said it would not bring their baby back and the nurse was living with the punishment of her mistake every day and they wished she would not have to live with that. What wonderful people.

I'll say!!!!!!

 

[ChrisnSteph]

I guess a better way to phrase my question is if a healthcare provider makes an honest mistake, owns up to it, and rectifies it, do you immediately think "I'll sue for emotional distress"?

But if someone made an honest mistake, you weren't drastically harmed and they sincerely apologized and owned up to it, would your first thought still be "sue"???

In that case, no I wouldn't.

 

[mickeyfan2]

[COLOR=RedMy question to you is: Would you be less likely to take further action if an error was made and [I]no harm occurred [/I] if the error was reproted, apologized for, and a plan of action made to see to it that it never happened again? In other words, if there was sincere regret on the part of the error-maker, and they were honest about what happened, would it change your reaction?

Or would you just sue the bejesus out of evryone anyhow?

PS- This question is inspired by the Walgreen's Pharmacy thread.[/COLOR]

I did not read the Walgreen's thread. We are all human. I would not sue.

 

[princess momma]

Health care is no different than any other field. There will be errors.

I know when it involves you it must seem ridiculous that someone could make a mistake, but can you say you're perfect 100% of the time. If you can you're lying. I work with nurses who claim to never make errors and they're usually the ones you can't trust. You know they would probably cover it up if they did.

I admit I've made a few small errors, never anything life threatening, just small medication errors, and I've learned tremendously from them. Admit you made a mistake and learn from it.

I can understand anger towards a health care provider though. A physician made an error in choosing the correct hip prosthetic for my mother, causing a life threatening ibone infection, and 3 subsequent operations. And then they claimed they couldn't find her medical records at the doctors office. Her second surgeon reccomended she sue. She never hired a lawyer but the insurance company offered her a settlement and she took it. If only he would have acknowledged her suffering instead of trying to hide his mistakes.

 

[mickeyfan2]

So now I want to read the Walgreen's thread. Could you point me to it?

 

[shy little mouse]

OK, I have to jump in. If I get flamed, oh well.

Now, Disney Doll, I am an RN as well. I consider myself a very careful and prudent nurse. I am all about CYA and making sure I make no errors (especially meds and drips) to begin with. I check and double check all my meds, drips, and infusions at the start of my shift and when I administer them. I would rather spend an extra 20 minutes at the beginning of my shift to ensure my patients' safety. However, I am human and some of the RNs I work with are not so careful as I am. I have never made a med error that I am aware of. I cannot say the same for my coworkers. I have come across heparin drips that were supposed to be d/c'd 12 hours ago with no PTTs having been drawn for 12 hours and the previous PTTs being high, insulin drips that have only been checked once a shift! (thank God the guy was on TPN and lipids), and the wrong K+ rider hanging on the wrong patient who already had high K+ who subsequently started having chest pain as a result. Yikes! All of these circumstances and more had potentially dangerous outcomes. Did I address the situation promptly? You bet! I informed supervisors, docs, and wrote it up. Did I inform the patients, no. Should I? Do you rat out your fellow nurses to patients? I am uncomfortable doing that, even with RNs I feel are not qualified to work the floors I do, or possibly even qualified to be RNs based on their consistently careless behaviors. Now, if it came down to a court battle, I would be more than happy to testify to incompetence.

Now, do I believe that customer service makes a difference? You bet I do! I have seen a vascular surgeon that I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy kill patients by his mistakes and escape unscathed time after time. I cringe every time a patient tells me that they love Dr. so-and-so. My coworkers and I have talked about the fact that we want to leave patients anonymous notes not to go with that doc. He is notorious around our hospital, but patients eat up his bedside manner. Legally, it would be defamation for me to do anything other than smile and nod when a patient professes this docs praises, so that is what I do.

Unfortunately CYA is a way of life. I just don't see it going away. We live in a litigous society where people do sue and it restricts our ability to be honest at times. Just my 2 cents.

ETA: I didn't want to come across as though I am perfect and never make any errors! I have never made a med error that I am aware of, but I did have a man take a bad fall on me once. Broken bones and bad outcomes, etc. It really upset me. I was reassured by many afterwards that it wasn't my fault, (he was disoriented and impulsive), but in hindsight I would have done things much differently. It was not one of my finer moments as an RN. I totally lost it and ended up going home. I never did talk to his family, but one of my coworkers did. They were actually spending the night in a lounge because they knew he was acting goofy and wanted to be available. They were not upset. Did I wish I would have handled it differently? Yes. Did I learn from it? Yes. Did the man die a few days later? Yes. Did I cause that death? No. He had an aortic thrombus that they did not want operated on. Still, I cried about it off and on for days, feeling guilty.

 

[Disney Doll]

OK, I have to jump in. If I get flamed, oh well.

Now, Disney Doll, I am an RN as well. I consider myself a very careful and prudent nurse. I am all about CYA and making sure I make no errors (especially meds and drips) to begin with. I check and double check all my meds, drips, and infusions at the start of my shift and when I administer them. I would rather spend an extra 20 minutes at the beginning of my shift to ensure my patients' safety. However, I am human and some of the RNs I work with are not so careful as I am. I have never made a med error that I am aware of. I cannot say the same for my coworkers. I have come across heparin drips that were supposed to be d/c'd 12 hours ago with no PTTs having been drawn for 12 hours and the previous PTTs being high, insulin drips that have only been checked once a shift! (thank God the guy was on TPN and lipids), and the wrong K+ rider hanging on the wrong patient who already had high K+ who subsequently started having chest pain as a result. Yikes! All of these circumstances and more had potentially dangerous outcomes. Did I address the situation promptly? You bet! I informed supervisors, docs, and wrote it up. Did I inform the patients, no. Should I? Do you rat out your fellow nurses to patients? I am uncomfortable doing that, even with RNs I feel are not qualified to work the floors I do, or possibly even qualified to be RNs based on their consistently careless behaviors. Now, if it came down to a court battle, I would be more than happy to testify to incompetence.

Now, do I believe that customer service makes a difference? You bet I do! I have seen a vascular surgeon that I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy kill patients by his mistakes and escape unscathed time after time. I cringe every time a patient tells me that they love Dr. so-and-so. My coworkers and I have talked about the fact that we want to leave patients anonymous notes not to go with that doc. He is notorious around our hospital, but patients eat up his bedside manner. Legally, it would be defamation for me to do anything other than smile and nod when a patient professes this docs praises, so that is what I do.

Unfortunately CYA is a way of life. I just don't see it going away. We live in a litigous society where people do sue and it restricts our ability to be honest at times. Just my 2 cents.

Well, I am not talking about ratting out a colleague to a patient. First of all, that's not my job. If I find an error that a collegaue of mine has made, I complete the proper paperwork and it goes through the proper channels. If my supervisor feels it is something the patient/family needs to know, then she & the patient's physician will go in there and tell the patient &/or family. But I do allow my supervisor to do her investigation first.

But, say that happens. Say a healthcare provider makes a mistake, the investigation is done, it is truly determined to be a mistake. If you were the "victim" of the mistake, and the healtcare provider then came in, owned up to it, and apologized, would that make you less inclined to sue?

 

[AllyandJack]

When my Nana was at a big hospital in Boston, she couldn't get herself to the bathroom. They told her to ring for the nurse so they could help her (she was on some medication that made her unsteady, but she was encouraged to walk after her surgery). She rang and rang and nobody came. Her roommate rang and rang and nobody came. My Nana got out of bed, fell and broke her nose. Nobody called us to tell us. We showed up the next day to them telling us how she got out of bed and fell and, not to worry, they fixed her nose (for free) and she was OK. They all felt awful. I was pretty annoyed, but, hey, accidents happen. It wasn't malicious, it might have been negligent, but I wasn't going to drag everyone into court over a mistake that resulted in a broken nose. They moved her into a private room and treated her like royalty after that. No permanent damage done.

Now, the nursing home is another story. That place and its "doctor" are going to regret that they ever played games with me. That's a long story, but suffice it to say my Nana had lung cancer for over a year before anyone told us. They unilaterally decided she wouldn't want treatment and decided it was best not to tell us. There were a series of meetings with the staff and the PA - some of which ended up in shouting matches. I've since requested her medical and x-ray reports and I get angrier and angrier every time I think about it. Not to say that I wouldn't have sought legal advice if they were nicer, but I don't think I'd be out on such a mission to make them miserable. I might have been more likely to accept a settlement. Now, I'll wait 5 years and force them into court....it's not about the money or about bringing my Nana back, it's about seeing those people on the stand trying to explain what they did.

 

[cats7494]

If there was no harm done - I think it is completely ridiculous to even contemplate suing!