I will never get this as a non parent

[kdonnel]

Maybe Uber could add an opt-in, where parents have to sign something in the app giving Uber permission to transport their kids and waiving liability? I know it could still be forged, but I would think it would still absolve Uber from responsibility.

In todays litigious society there is no way I would transport a minor as an Uber driver without someone over 18 traveling with them. There is no signed piece of paper that would stop someone from filing a lawsuit and the cost and aggravation that would ensue.

If I drove for Uber/Lyft I would also make sure to install a camera with microphone or two or three or four that recorded the inside and outside at all times. Those cameras would record me asking to see an id of the rider no matter their age just like if I were a clerk selling alcohol. The cameras would greatly reduce the opportunity for a rider said / driver said situation.

If I were driving for Uber/Lyft I would also purchase a business liability policy. The coverage provided by Uber while you are driving is less then what I have personally and in my opinion is woefully inadequate.

 

[Princessclab]

@Princessclab I still don't understand what you mean. A phone is an "adult thing"? Are you saying a 12 year old is too young to have access to a parent's phone or they shouldn't have access to a phone at all?

I did not say the phone itself is an adult thing. The phones now are not just for calling people as you know. They are essentially tools that we all use in our lives, ie all the apps, that have adult only content. (I am not talking about anything nasty here.)
The apps have all kinds of services which may or may not be appropriate for children to use or have access to, bank info, credit cards, personal texts are just a few examples. Do parents share everything in their lives with their children or should they? JMHO; can't imagine I would give a child access to my phone. Also, to me my phone is a very personal thing and privacy is important.

 

[ronandannette]

Why would a 12 year old have access to the parent's phone and all that goes with it?
Shouldn't it be protected from the children? Adult things vs child things.
JMHO

I did not say the phone itself is an adult thing. The phones now are not just for calling people as you know. They are essentially tools that we all use in our lives, ie all the apps, that have adult only content. (I am not talking about anything nasty here.)
The apps have all kinds of services which may or may not be appropriate for children to use or have access to, bank info, credit cards, personal texts are just a few examples. Do parents share everything in their lives with their children or should they? JMHO; can't imagine I would give a child access to my phone. Also, to me my phone is a very personal thing and privacy is important.

This tragedy occurred late at night and after the parents were in bed. I'm not in the habit of "securing" my phone, wallet or car keys at night - they sit on the the credenza in my foyer and if my DS wanted to get into them, he could. I think most households would be similar.

Oh a snarky response. You’ve missed the point. She would have found a way. Uber or Lyft or any other car service. But I’ll let you live in your bubble.

Nothing about the information we have indicates she was chronically depressed or in a persistent state of despair. We'll never know what was going on in her head that tragic night but here's the thing - adolescents are incredibly impulsive and emotionally volatile. They lack the ability to predict the outcome of their actions and truly grasp the finality of the consequences. They are also often very easily deterred and distracted and what's earth-shattering today often doesn't matter much next week - KWIM?

In this case I very much believe the possibility that had she not gotten the ride, she might still be with us. That is NOT to say the driver can ultimately be blamed but as a grieving parent, every tiny circumstance that tipped the scale would be torturous. I highly doubt the lawsuit will go anywhere; but I feel the driver should be seriously reviewing his own judgement and how cavalierly he seemed to apply the age guidelines.

 

[DisLiss]

Do parents share everything in their lives with their children or should they? JMHO; can't imagine I would give a child access to my phone. Also, to me my phone is a very personal thing and privacy is important.

Not all 12 year olds have their own phones. And not all homes have landlines. In some homes, the parents' phone is THE phone, so it's accessible to the kids.

My phone lives in my car. I do not use it at home at all. It's only for emergencies. And because an emergency could render me unable to use it, my kids can both access my phone.

So while you can't imagine letting a child access a phone, I find it surprising that one wouldn't have access. Some of the posts in this thread are just so absolute. I personally don't understand that way of thinking at all. For instance, I think it is very, very possible for a 12 year old to look like an adult. I also think that just because it may not be Uber's fault that this happened, it's not automatically the parents' fault, either. Apparently we need to educate people about the very real, very tragic fact that people who are suicidal do not always show it.

 

[mjkacmom]

My response intent was not meant to be a 'snark'. Your post came across like you did not understand what I was saying, my perception. My apologies.
My main point was that children are allowed to do adult things and make adult decisions which may or may not have consequences. The parents job is to protect your children, even from themselves. This is a good example of a thing that can go wrong. For example, do your children use your credit card regularly and drive your car by themselves around? Adult things which most parents do not let their children do.
Many times children believe they are capable in making a decision but really aren't mature enough or have the capability to make such a decision. At 12 years old this poor child was still a child, not even a teenager.
Where do you draw the line on letting your children do adult things (rhetorical question)?
No living in a bubble here, I could indicate the same thoughts to you.
May your children always be safe.

Do you have kids? My kids take my credit cards when they go shopping without me (starting early teens), and drive without me when they get their license (so it’s legal). We actually share an iTunes account, so my app is their app (and their app is my app). My financial information is password protected, and there is nothing on my phone I wouldn’t want them to see. If I’m driving, they read my texts to me, and answer my phone.

 

[Princessclab]

Do you have kids? My kids take my credit cards when they go shopping without me (starting early teens), and drive without me when they get their license (so it’s legal). We actually share an iTunes account, so my app is their app (and their app is my app). My financial information is password protected, and there is nothing on my phone I wouldn’t want them to see. If I’m driving, they read my texts to me, and answer my phone.

Yes.
Agree to disagree.
One thing though you are talking about teenagers who are usually at a more mature level than a 12 yo child. The fact that they have a DL shows more maturity with that accomplishment.
This may be a parenting difference of opinion, however you have stated that you do have some things protected from your kids. There are things that you draw the line at.
This will vary between parents but protecting children should be the key, even from themselves as I have stated.
Maybe the difference us that our kids have their own phones starting at age 10yo for calls but with limited usage and access to apps. (parental controls ie., no credit cards). There would be no reason for them to use my phone.

 

[mjkacmom]

Yes.
Agree to disagree.
One thing though you are talking about teenagers who are usually at a more mature level than a 12 yo child. The fact that they have a DL shows more maturity with that accomplishment.
This may be a parenting difference of opinion, however you have stated that you do have some things protected from your kids. There are things that you draw the line at.
This will vary between parents but protecting children should be the key, even from themselves as I have stated.
Maybe the difference us that our kids have their own phones starting at age 10yo for calls but with limited usage and access to apps. (parental controls ie., no credit cards). There would be no reason for them to use my phone.

I password protect my banking information is to secure it from the outside world, as so farm my kids have had no need for that information. They do have access to my paypal and Venmo. Do you purposely lock up your phone so that your kids don’t have access? Mine stays downstairs on the charger every night, and has forever, same with DH. There is nothing on my phone I wouldn’t want my kids to see. If they can’t use their own (left it at home, waiting on a new one because theirs is damaged), they are more than welcome to use mine. I don’t know any kids who don’t know their parents passwords.

 

[msjprincess]

I did not say the phone itself is an adult thing. The phones now are not just for calling people as you know. They are essentially tools that we all use in our lives, ie all the apps, that have adult only content. (I am not talking about anything nasty here.)
The apps have all kinds of services which may or may not be appropriate for children to use or have access to, bank info, credit cards, personal texts are just a few examples. Do parents share everything in their lives with their children or should they? JMHO; can't imagine I would give a child access to my phone. Also, to me my phone is a very personal thing and privacy is important.

That's why I was asking. I had no idea what your point was.

There's nothing very personal on my phone. In order for them to get into my bank or credit card apps they would need my password or fingerprint. My texts are pretty boring.

My kids now have their own debit cards but before that I would give them my credit card to use.

 

[Colleen27]

In todays litigious society there is no way I would transport a minor as an Uber driver without someone over 18 traveling with them. There is no signed piece of paper that would stop someone from filing a lawsuit and the cost and aggravation that would ensue.

If I drove for Uber/Lyft I would also make sure to install a camera with microphone or two or three or four that recorded the inside and outside at all times. Those cameras would record me asking to see an id of the rider no matter their age just like if I were a clerk selling alcohol. The cameras would greatly reduce the opportunity for a rider said / driver said situation.

If I were driving for Uber/Lyft I would also purchase a business liability policy. The coverage provided by Uber while you are driving is less then what I have personally and in my opinion is woefully inadequate.

That is enough for a whole 'nother thread, IMO. There's no way I'd drive for a ride sharing company at all, full stop, given the litigious and contentious state of our culture. Not only is the coverage provided by the company entirely inadequate, from what I understand from friends who do drive for them, the pay often isn't enough to be worth obtaining your own liability coverage, installing cameras, and covering other incidentals (two friends cited puking drunks, specifically, as the reason they no longer drive for Uber).

 

[china mom]

Suicide is cruel in that it leaves the survivors looking for answers and often looking for someone to blame. It is human nature to look for someone else to blame to help assuage the guilt that one must feel in a situation like this.

I can understand the parents emotions. But that does not mean that they are right. Something happened with this child that she felt she need to take her own life. Once she made that decision, the ride to the location was the least relevant factor. If she was going to die that night, she was going to die. Location wouldn't have mattered to her. (I say this with decades of experience with suicidal people - some looking for attention and some truly suicidal and, sadly, some sucesessfully suicidal).

My children have had completely unlocked cell phones since abut age 7 and my son has had a debit card (my name on it but his bank account) since age 9. If he successfully ordered an Uber and went somewhere, I would blame him, not Uber.. Of course, that is a moot point since we are so rural that if you want to use Uber, you have the message our one Uber driver on facebook to arrange your ride time.

 

[JLTraveling]

Nothing about the information we have indicates she was chronically depressed or in a persistent state of despair. We'll never know what was going on in her head that tragic night but here's the thing - adolescents are incredibly impulsive and emotionally volatile. They lack the ability to predict the outcome of their actions and truly grasp the finality of the consequences. They are also often very easily deterred and distracted and what's earth-shattering today often doesn't matter much next week - KWIM?

In this case I very much believe the possibility that had she not gotten the ride, she might still be with us.

While I absolutely agree with what you're saying in regards to adolescents with typical mental health, I contend that suicidal ideation is a completely different animal. My background is in psychology, with a focus on children and families, and I worked extensively with kids in residential mental health, many of whom were there following suicide attempts. There's a world of difference between an impulsive adolescent screaming, "I hate you! I'm gonna kill myself if you don't let me (go out with him, buy that dress, whatever)" and someone crafting and executing (or attempting to execute) an actual suicide plan. That's why mental health professionals are trained to ask specific questions during suicide risk assessment, and one is always, "Do you have a plan?"

Clearly, the girl was in intense despair. I'm sure it will come out over the next few weeks as investigators piece it all together, but it is incredibly important to remember that some of the outwardly happiest people are suffering the most inside--see Robin Williams as an example. I would also be interested to know if she had been through some trouble and then apparently moved past it--right when people seem to be recovering from despair is one of the critical times for suicidal actions, because now they feel enough better to actually go through with it.

I'm sorry, but I very much do not believe that she would still be with us if she hadn't gotten the ride.