I rented my points and now I'm FREAKING out

[Stitch1404]

Flame me if you must for not reading into the rules before I did it, but I thought what I was doing was okay...

We are going on one of Disney's Mediterranean cruises next summer. We couldn't afford the point costs for this cruise, nor could we afford to pay cash for it. I had seen it suggested many times on this board to rent points to pay for Disney Cruises. So, I posted on the rent/trade board and rented out 2 use years worth of points, a total of 14 reservations.

Now with the email that came out I am FREAKING out. I am afraid the reservations I made or my membership in general are in jeopardy. This was the only time I rented my points and I probably don't intend to do it ever again. If MS looked at my account, they would see 15 reservations, 14 of which wouldn't have my name on them. However, I am not a commercial renter, I don't have a website, I don't sell on eBay.

I realize this is all my fault, that I got myself into this, but it really was just a one time thing to give my family the opportunity to go on a cruise that we could otherwise never afford. I am regretting my decision and worrying about the status of my membership and the reservations I made.

 

[PrincessJasmine08]

No flames from me...

I started a thread on this topic over on the operations board. Not that my word means anything at all, but this is just my humble opinion on the matter...

I think that in sending out the email reminding members of the rule they were looking to do 2 things:

1. Stop the abuse of transferring distressed points and letting them assume a different home resort or use year.

2. Stop commercial renters. These are the people who have their own websites for renting their points and own thousands of points.

Again, this is just my two cents on the matter, but I would say you are fine. Your signature says you joined DVC in 1995. So in those 11 years, how many reservations have you made for yourself and how many have you made for others? I would guess you have made a LOT more for yourself and this is what MS would notice if they looked into your history.

Good luck, and pixie dust that this will all turn out okay for you!

 

[Barnum01]

Now with the email that came out I am FREAKING out. I am afraid the reservations I made or my membership in general are in jeopardy. This was the only time I rented my points and I probably don't intend to do it ever again. If MS looked at my account, they would see 15 reservations, 14 of which wouldn't have my name on them. However, I am not a commercial renter, I don't have a website, I don't sell on eBay.

I realize this is all my fault, that I got myself into this, but it really was just a one time thing to give my family the opportunity to go on a cruise that we could otherwise never afford. I am regretting my decision and worrying about the status of my membership and the reservations I made.

I wrote the following for another thread, but it applies here as well:

"According to a CM I spoke to recently, the biggest issue with DVC regarding renting are the people who had literally 1,000s of points transferred to their accounts (which, according to member guidelines from day 1, cannot be associated with a monetary exchange, even though we all know that happened, and still happens, on a regular basis) and then turned around and rented them out to others (mostly non-DVC members) for a profit. They say that's why the reinforcing of the one transfer per member notice and the "crackdown" on renting came out at the same time."

You did what you had to to provide your family with a memorable vacation experience, using the funds received from renting your points to take another Disney vacation. You are not competing with Disney as some of the Web-based investment renters seem to do. Take a good look at the Rental Board on this very site and you can quickly see the people who are doing what you did for a chance to take a different kind of vacation, or maybe decided against a vacation this year because of the economy and wanted to get a little bit back for their dues rather than banking points that they will have to do something with eventually or keep banking a year out. There's a big difference between this kind of renter and the people who troll the board, never posting a public message, but immediately PM'ing those who list points available looking for a low-ball transfer that they can then rent out for a profit. I've rented out my points, and I've made ressies for guests (friends and families)...MS makes no distinction (granted, I've never said I needed to make a ressie for someone who is renting my points, rather I've always said I need to make a reservation for a guest, which by definition is someone other than myself, whether I know them or not).

I guess this is a long-winded response to tell you to calm down. Your membership is not in jeopardy. Your 14 "guest" ressies are a very small amount compared to the professional investment renters out there. Think of the Recording Industry going after Napster users...they didn't target the occasional user of Napster, they went after the people that had thousands upon thousands of songs available for download by others. Besides, that WAS copyright violation. DVC has never (as of this date) forbidden members explicitly from renting points. You cannot be penalized for something that isn't against member guidelines. Plus, as some people have pointed out, guidelines are not the same thing as policies, legally.

 

[Barnum01]

Okay, no matter what it says in my sidebar, the three of us who have posted in this thread all live in Ohio (C-bus here). It must be an Ohio thing to worry about things we shouldn't and to think that everything that is said is directed at us. Some kind of state level group guilty-conscience.

 

[PrincessJasmine08]

Okay, no matter what it says in my sidebar, the three of us who have posted in this thread all live in Ohio (C-bus here). It must be an Ohio thing to worry about things we shouldn't and to think that everything that is said is directed at us. Some kind of state level group guilty-conscience.

That's so funny that we all live in Ohio! I am definitely a worrier. I worry about EVERYTHING, maybe I need to move from Ohio...Orlando maybe?

 

[Scotch]

Don't stress! I was discussing this new rule with my guide the other day and I said how bad I felt for some renters who have already got a confirmation in hand if DVC cancels the ressies. He said they are planning to enforce the rule for rental abusers from the point of the notice forward -- because it would otherwise not be fair for renters not on notice.

 

[allflgirl]

I wouldn't worry about it either. 14 reservations is hardly what I consider a "commercial renter".

My husband and I thought the same thing as you, I rent out some points the year we go to Alaska, which is in '08. We just bought into DVC this year and spent all of our vacation money for the next 4 - 5 years on this purchase. We've been dreaming of going to Alaska for our 20th anniversary, ever since we couldn't make it happen for our 10th and we're going in '08 and not going to Disney that year. Although I love Disney, it's not exactly what we've been dreaming of for our big anniversary.

I hope you have a wonderful vacation and I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Julia

 

[Dean]

I wouldn't worry about it either. 14 reservations is hardly what I consider a "commercial renter".

While I would agree, I think there are many on this BBS that wouldn't though I doubt they'll post that on this thread given the context. I'll have to keep that post though for other renting threads as they come along.

 

[CarolMN]

I would be very surprised if DVC has a problem with anyone who rents out their own points.

It's just my opinion, but I think they have pretty much already taken action to stop what they consider abusive renting - by stopping unlimited transfers.

Anything else will (in my opinion) just consist of "cease and desist" letters. They are not going to cancel anyone's legitimate reservations. (They might cancel multiple reservations for the same time periods that only have a members' name on it - i.e., ressies made on spec).

Bottom Line: Ty not to worry/obsess over this. It's too late for you to do anything about what is done and you cannot control Disney/DVC. FWIW, I really think you (and those who rented from you) will be all right.

Think more about how much fun that cruise is going to be.

Best wishes -

 

[Stitch1404]

Thank you all for your reassuring words! I kind of think of most of the people on this board as DVC experts, so it helps to hear this from all of you.

 

[Stitch1404]

While I would agree, I think there are many on this BBS that wouldn't though I doubt they'll post that on this thread given the context. I'll have to keep that post though for other renting threads as they come along.

What is BBS?

 

[Stitch1404]

...
Anything else will (in my opinion) just consist of "cease and desist" letters. They are not going to cancel anyone's legitimate reservations. (They might cancel multiple reservations for the same time periods that only have a members' name on it - i.e., ressies made on spec)...

Are you saying that you think DVC is going to send out letters to those that are potentially commercail renters warning them to stop the practice? Isn't that what the email was?

 

[Barnum01]

What is BBS?

Bulletin Board System...it's what we used to call these things "back in the day" (yeesh, I can't believe I'm using that phrase to talk about computer technology). I won't go into the difference between these and USENET groups.

No matter what, look forward to your cruise!

All the best...

 

[Barnum01]

Are you saying that you think DVC is going to send out letters to those that are potentially commercail renters warning them to stop the practice? Isn't that what the email was?

I can't speak for the poster, but that seemed to be a speculation. If a company feels it's being infringed upon, the usual first legal step is a cease-and-desist order from counsel. A scary letter that asks the offender to stop the offensive behavior or face further legal action involving the courts.

The email was a reminder that said practices violate the POS. Kind of like a group spanking. Seeing how freaked out everybody got (you and I included), it served the purpose of putting people on notice. But like group spankings, the persons the actual message is intended for rarely get it and will continue their practices.

The speculation is that DVC would send a CnD to the offenders if they see the continued pattern of commercial behavior, which doesn't apply to 99% of us here.

 

[CarolMN]

Are you saying that you think DVC is going to send out letters to those that are potentially commercail renters warning them to stop the practice? Isn't that what the email was?

I think the email was a general communication and went out to DVC''s entire email membership list. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a snail mail version coming soon since not all members have email and DVC doesn't have email addresses for every member.

Going forward, I think that DVC will just deal individually with those they think are violating the POS. (And I don't htink anyone who rents out his/her own points will ever be deemed to be in violation unless they habitually make multiple reservations "on spec"). I think the DVC lawyers will send out formal "cease and desist" letters to identified offenders before any actual cancellations ever take place.

Please keep in mind that this is just my opinion. I have no special connection to DVC, have never rented out even a single point, and do not know any lawyer except the one who drafted my will & health care directive.

Best wishes -

 

[CarolMN]

I can't speak for the poster, but that seemed to be a speculation. If a company feels it's being infringed upon, the usual first legal step is a cease-and-desist order from counsel. A scary letter that asks the offender to stop the offensive behavior or face further legal action involving the courts.

The email was a reminder that said practices violate the POS. Kind of like a group spanking. Seeing how freaked out everybody got (you and I included), it served the purpose of putting people on notice. But like group spankings, the persons the actual message is intended for rarely get it and will continue their practices.

The speculation is that DVC would send a CnD to the offenders if they see the continued pattern of commercial behavior, which doesn't apply to 99% of us here.

LOL, Barnum - you did a great job of "speaking" for me. Looks like we were typing at the same time and you were quicker.

Best wishes -

 

[Barnum01]

LOL, Barnum - you did a great job of "speaking" for me. Looks like we were typing at the same time and you were quicker.

Best wishes -

anytime I can be on the same "page" as a moderator, i know i'm in good company!

 

[LisaS]

I agree with others here that DVC is unlikely to "go after" members renting out their own points, especially if they only do so occasionally. Disney tried to prevent members from running DVC travel businesses by limiting the number of points a member can own. Some members have gotten around this limit by putting their contracts in the names of various family members, and by transferring in as many points as they can. I expect these are the commercial renters that Disney wants to put out of business.

 

[Sammie]

I don't think you have anything to worry about. The fact that it even concerns you speaks volumes.

Also since you rented to take a Disney cruise would not hurt if you were contacted.

Enjoy your cruise, I don't think you are the big fish they are after.

 

[mmmcq]

Stitch1404

I hear your pain and have to tell you that I felt similarly. I did not purchase DVC to rent/trade and really didn't understand the practice at all until I had to cancel a big reservation that we had last year. When I cancelled I knew that we wouldn't be able to go to WDW in the next 12 months so I panicked about all the points in holding and those which were put back into my 05 and 06 use years. I figured out the only way to alleviate the pain was to rent some of the points and I learned how to do that. The number of renters was nominal...but still when the new rules were announced I cringed.

But ironically, in the very week that the announcement came I had decided to plan a last minute trip to WDW for our kids. I had looked out over the next 18mos and realized that we didn't have much of a window for a trip with high school graduations and a family reunion overseas i n '07 and '08.

When I posted looking for a Thanksgiving reservation I was pm'd by some that I consider now to be commercial renters. The price was really high and I declined. I found the ebay listings - again for the dates I wanted -but couldn't believe this particular individual had so many reservations. When I went back on the rent/trade board I found a couple of these renters asking to buy points. All of this before the announcement.

Then a waitlist comes thru quickly for me and I'm two points short.....because I had rented and transferred too many out the past 8 months after our 4/06 cancellation. I had tried to help one member this July complete her own reservation (she asked me 3 times for a small number of poitns by transfer) and in doing so I had put my own future trip in jeopardy. So I ended up making a cash reservations for the nights that I'm short a few points. C'est la vie. I cooked my own goose and now I understand the rules and why they are in place. I will absolutely think twice about renting out points again.

But like you Stitch1404, my motives were IMHO different than the larger commercial renters who seem to make a business out of the rent/trade board. I can't say that I won't ever rent/trade in the future, but I will go back to the way I treated the points previously - like gold for our family.