"I pay your salary!"

[bicker]

I can tell you that in today's educational system, word spreads like wildfire about professors. And if it gets out that the professor goes on power trips, is disrespectful to students, etc., that professor stands a lot more to lose than the student who says "I pay your salary." And frankly any professor who feels their honor is hurt by that and feels the need to retaliate has some big time issues.

That's not my understanding, based on what my brother (a university administrator) tells me. Regardless, it surely doesn't apply for the vast majority of situations mentioned in this thread.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

I think the problem, though, is when did you start looking at them? If the world started on that day, then fine, but the reality is that the day you started looking at them was not their first day in operation. Who took the first shot doesn't really matter, because that first shot, no matter who made it, would (in the context of what you're saying) seem pretty trivial. The point is that we've moved together (DMV workers and folks going to the DMV for service) down this path. The lack-of-smile you're referring to is almost surely a reflection of how the last ten people treated that DMV worker.

And that's almost surely a reflection of how nasty people generally are to service workers who refuse to give them what they want, regardless of whether the policies and procedures and laws governing the provision of that service are actually "at fault" with regard to the denial. People generally want what they want and many have little or no capacity to gracefully accept that the person providing them service is just doing their job well.

Expecting that a human being would not show the scars from the disrespect bestowed on them from the last ten people that they served is unreasonable. Sure, a few remarkable people have the ability to slough off such abuse, and treat every person asking for service individually. However, such gems are highly desired by premium-grade service providers in the private sector: Taxpayers are, generally, cheap, and won't brook with government paying premium salaries for premium quality service workers. Similarly, you're not going to find mainstream service providers paying top-dollar for superior service workers, because mainstream customers aren't going to brook with paying a premium for such service. Mainstream customers are much more focused on getting the lowest price.

That is an incredibly well-thought-out response. And absolutely valid points. Individual experiences with the DMV don't exist in a vacuum.

I guess I'm just looking at all of this as someone who has been in customer service in some capacity for the past twenty years. My experiences have been that even when the customer is nasty, I do have to grin and bear it and give the same level of service and pleasantness as I would to the customer who brought me a box of cookies.

Thanks for the discussion I'll keep smiling to the people who don't smile back, because maybe there is a reason for. And I'll hope that once in a while it will be infectious!!

 

[christineann]

I agree - great post, bicker!

 

[Sugardimples]

A student who says this is repeating what they've heard at home. There are a lot of entitled people out there!

 

[southern_redhead]

I hope the English Chair corrected it in red font and sent it back.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

A student who says this is repeating what they've heard at home. There are a lot of entitled people out there!

That's not necessarily the case. By the time you're in college, I think most people are able to come to the conclusion that of the boatload of money you're giving to the school, part of it going to the professor's paycheck. It's not an entirely-untrue statement.

I don't think it needs to be said, and I don't think it's productive at all. But that doesn't make it false.

I guess I have a hard time believing that everyone who went to college felt that their professors truly earned their salary. I had one professor who handed out a syllabus that contained nothing but reading assignments and a schedule for which student would teach the class on a particular day. And it was not one of my education classes.

 

[Planogirl]

I had some great professors and some not so much. I would never disrespect even the worst professor by saying such a thing though. It's rude and serves no purpose.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

I can tell you that in today's educational system, word spreads like wildfire about professors. And if it gets out that the professor goes on power trips, is disrespectful to students, etc., that professor stands a lot more to lose than the student who says "I pay your salary." And frankly any professor who feels their honor is hurt by that and feels the need to retaliate has some big time issues.

I find this comment very interesting. How does the professor stand a lot more to lose? I assure you that student opinion has very little impact, if any, on a professor's opportunity for advancement. I think this post also suggests that professors actually care about students' personal opinions about them. Among my colleagues, that's simply not the case. They really, truly don't give a flying fig what students think about them or their course.

The student, on the other hand, does have something to lose. In the short-term, you've lost all credibility and any valid complaints you have are now lost. In the long-term, you may have hurt your future job or academic prospects. What kind of reference or recommendation letter are you likely to get from a professor when you've shown yourself to be a great big spoiled brat? And just because you were sunshine and roses with Professor Joe doesn't mean that the temper-tantrum you had with Professor Tom went unnoticed. Tom and Joe have breakfast together every Thursday. They're good friends. Joe is going to know about that tantrum you threw, and any recommendation he gives is not going to be stellar. Was your moment of gratification worth it? That's not retaliation. It's not a power trip. It's a natural consequence. It's Joe recognizing that he doesn't want to put himself out there for someone who is a spoiled brat and/or unable to exercise sufficient self control.

I know there are plenty of professors who completely and utterly suck at teaching. But the reality is, teaching is just one part of the professor gig. And at many institutions, the teaching part is the least important aspect of the job. Service and scholarship are far more important for career advancement in higher education.

 

[ginna74]

If you ever feel like saying something like this to your teacher or professor, don't. Just walk away. No good will come of it. The professor isn't going to change his policy/approach/attitude. And you're going to end up looking like a great big spoiled brat.

I have heard people say this about people on disability as well....a lot as a matter of fact and it doesn't go any better.

 

[minnieandmickey]

I'm okay with a detention just because I don't particularly think students should mouth off to adults. That being said, I still feel a suspension is absolutely ridiculous. That smells of an adult going off on a power trip.

What may not have been said is what discipline issues did this child have leading up to this. Yes if it was a first time offense then suspension was a little harsh. If there were issues that finally broke the proverbial straw then suspension was warented.

 

[DWGal210]

I had some great professors and some not so much. I would never disrespect even the worst professor by saying such a thing though. It's rude and serves no purpose.

ITA. No good comes from it.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

I know there are plenty of professors who completely and utterly suck at teaching. But the reality is, teaching is just one part of the professor gig. And at many institutions, the teaching part is the least important aspect of the job. Service and scholarship are far more important for career advancement in higher education.

For the amount of money people pay to go to college, it disturbs me that teaching could be considered the least important aspect of a professor's job. If the professor in question had that attitude, I can't honestly say I blame the person for saying it.

 

[bicker]

For the amount of money people pay to go to college, it disturbs me that teaching could be considered the least important aspect of a professor's job.

There's a lot to what you're saying there, but I think it is important to acknowledge that reasonable people disagree about that. More specifically, many people have very solid and reasonable basis for understanding the obligations of professors in a manner different from what you imply. For decades - perhaps as much as a century - many universities have operated on the publish-or-perish philosophy. Someone may not like that, but it is a reflection of the reality - long-standing and pervasive reality. And people who base their expectations of what a profession should be/do on such a long-standing and pervasive reality - indeed, ostensibly on what "bill-of-goods" they were sold - there's no denying that those expectations are reasonable.

So where does that leave us? With a system substantially structured around original research and scholarly analysis, but with students wanting more/better instruction.

It should be noted that more/better instruction is available from other institutions, but many students eschew those options, to a great extent because they feel that the education from those other institutions does not carry with it the prestige that education from a research university carries. That's also a reasonable perspective. It does, however, highlight the crux of the issue, i.e., that the very nature of a well-regarded research university, with its arguably anemic or otherwise lacking instruction, may contribute to what students want to get out of their educational experience, in the long-run (assuming that they're successful), even though it doesn't provide what they would necessarily want as they're going through it.

 

[IDoDis]

A parent at our school was making demands from the school secretary during registration. The parent didn't have necessary paperwork and mouthed off to the secretary. When he said he paid her salary, she looked back at him and very bluntly said, "Then give me a raise!"

That shut him up.

 

[tlbwriter]

And if it gets out that the professor goes on power trips, is disrespectful to students, etc., that professor stands a lot more to lose than the student who says "I pay your salary."

Yeah, I've got one word for you: tenure!

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

A parent at our school was making demands from the school secretary during registration. The parent didn't have necessary paperwork and mouthed off to the secretary. When he said he paid her salary, she looked back at him and very bluntly said, "Then give me a raise!"

That shut him up.

I don't even understand that comeback. Just because someone asks for a raise doesn't mean you get one. The retort should be " Request Denied."

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Yeah, I've got one word for you: tenure!

It has nothing to do with losing his/her job. The professor's classes will be the last ones to fill up, the professor won't be taken seriously by students, etc. Yes I know some professors don't give a fig about it but losing reputation amongst the student body is never a good thing.

 

[tlbwriter]

It has nothing to do with losing his/her job. The professor's classes will be the last ones to fill up, the professor won't be taken seriously by students, etc. Yes I know some professors don't give a fig about it but losing reputation amongst the student body is never a good thing.

I still think it's naive to say the student has more to lose than the professor. The professor, if tenured, won't lose a job. And honestly, the respect of students isn't always a big deal to them. If you're doing research and publishing and are successful at that, your peers are not going to say "oooh, but his students don't like him!" The student, on the other hand, has a grade at stake. They could lose a scholarship, honors designation, or even get booted from the program.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

I still think it's naive to say the student has more to lose than the professor. The professor, if tenured, won't lose a job. And honestly, the respect of students isn't always a big deal to them. If you're doing research and publishing and are successful at that, your peers are not going to say "oooh, but his students don't like him!" The student, on the other hand, has a grade at stake. They could lose a scholarship, honors designation, or even get booted from the program.

Your grade is based on work submitted, not telling a professor "I pay your salary." That statement will have no impact on the grade and if a professor grades a student harsher because of that then yes, jobs can be at stake.

 

[tlbwriter]

whoops