I have a small claims court question

[ariel71]

Do you think the recipient's action (or in this case, inaction) would still be considered "aging", given that the contract states the terms of payment (within 7 days) and the billed party is an individual, not a business?

Every business has terms of payment and invoices that aren't paid within the billing period. Doesn't matter that the billed party is an individual. In a business like OP's, which is probably very dependent on referrals, having one bride or wedding planner start badmouthing you, even if completely unjustified, can have a big impact on business. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. We don't know what the wedding business looks like in OP's area.

I think people are just saying it's wiser to consider that you will occasionally encounter these circumstances. Talking about a legal remedy at 30 days is a little excessive.

 

[Eastern]

I have been in small claims court twice. It is pretty easy to file a claim as it is meant to be consumer-friendly. I even filed a suit against a corporation, and won. I did not need a lawyer to do this.

Make sure you have made a formal demand for payment. I would send a certified letter and a regular mail letter. Then if customer doesn't pay, file a claim. They will be notified of your claim and at that point, a lot of people will just pay.

Visit your court house and get all the papers you will need (sometimes these papers are available online to print out). If you have any questions, there should be an ombudsman for you to talk to. I found the clerks and ombudsman to be very friendly and helpful. You fill out the paperwork and attach and pertinent documents, such as contracts. Don't forget to ask for court costs in addition to your amount owed.

Good luck~

regarding the 34 days: I filed my claim against the corporation rather early, but they settled anyway, just to have it done with. By the time you demand payment (and get an answer or not), file, and get your court date, it will already be another month. So I don't think it's too soon.

 

[NYCDiane]

When you do your mailing, be sure to send one Certified Mail/Return Receipt Requested and one by regular mail.


With the one that you're sending regular mail, ask the postal clerk for a CERTIFICATE OF MAILING. It costs less than $1 and it will prove that you mailed it.

 

[tvguy]

Do you think the recipient's action (or in this case, inaction) would still be considered "aging", given that the contract states the terms of payment (within 7 days) and the billed party is an individual, not a business?

I hate aging, and I think the bill should be paid on time. I am just point out in the real world that isn't how it happens. I did not see the within 7 days part, so the payment isn't even 30 days over due yet.
Another reality check, I bet the payment will be made long before a court date is set. Yes, bills should be paid on time, but given the tiny amount involved, and the work involved to take it to court, I think OP should pursue less drastic actions first.

 

[Eastern]

I hate aging, and I think the bill should be paid on time. I am just point out in the real world that isn't how it happens. I did not see the within 7 days part, so the payment isn't even 30 days over due yet.
Another reality check, I bet the payment will be made long before a court date is set. Yes, bills should be paid on time, but given the tiny amount involved, and the work involved to take it to court, I think OP should pursue less drastic actions first.

I don't think that $400+ is a small amount. It doesn't have to be 30 days overdue if the contract says payment due within 7 days.

It's not a lot of work, or drastic, to file in small claims. If OP makes a final demand for payment, and it is ignored, they should file a claim. Small claims court is geared for the novice consumer. As long as you are clear in your presentation and have something written to back it up, the judge will use common sense to make a decision.

It's really not hard. The hardest part is collecting your award.

 

[ready123go]

Just a reality check. Called "aging", and it is not uncommon, and it is an accepted business practice. I bring it up because of the discussion of going to small claims court. A very common standard in court is to not only look at the black and white of the contract, but what accepted practice is. This is why most creditors don't start action until a payment is more than 90 days past due. Court is fine, but given the payment is only 34 days later, in the courts view maybe the action was filed prematurely.

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/what_is_invoice_aging/

Every business has terms of payment and invoices that aren't paid within the billing period. Doesn't matter that the billed party is an individual. In a business like OP's, which is probably very dependent on referrals, having one bride or wedding planner start badmouthing you, even if completely unjustified, can have a big impact on business. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. We don't know what the wedding business looks like in OP's area.

I think people are just saying it's wiser to consider that you will occasionally encounter these circumstances. Talking about a legal remedy at 30 days is a little excessive.

I hate aging, and I think the bill should be paid on time. I am just point out in the real world that isn't how it happens. I did not see the within 7 days part, so the payment isn't even 30 days over due yet.
Another reality check, I bet the payment will be made long before a court date is set. Yes, bills should be paid on time, but given the tiny amount involved, and the work involved to take it to court, I think OP should pursue less drastic actions first.

I am unfamiliar with an the concept of an individual being legally or practically able to "age" an invoice. Businesses, yes. Six weeks is a common practice in our industry. For an individual I guess I always assumed it would be considered a case of simple default.

At what point would a magistrate in small claims consider an individual's unpaid invoice to transition from "aging" to "non-payment"?

 

[sweetdana]

If they're poor white trash, don't bother. Not worth it.

How is race relevant? .. How do you even know what race the client was?



This comment is in poor taste at best.

 

[sweetdana]

I work as an Underwriter for mortgages, and we would require a 3$ judgment to be paid. Though I would not recommend spending a bunch of $$ on an attorney, I would certainly take them to court. Every day someone pays off an old judgment from a cell company, or a old house the rented, or a carpet store cause they want the house. It doesn't matter if they have funds today, the fact is, if they want to buy a house, barring bankruptcy.. they will pay you the $$ one day. ( maybe later than sooner... but BK is tough these days.)


1) I would send a certified letter. I would be kind, and firm. I have supplied the services, and per your contract these funds were due 10-4 ect. I would then follow up 30 days later with another letter, telling them exactly the date you intend to take them to court if you are not paid by. Maybe Jan 15th . Giving them another 30 days after the 2nd letter you sent them, giving them more than enough time.

2) I would not take to court until you are at least 100 days late. I agree with many of the PP.. they are busy, and have a new life with lots of crazy stuff going on.. give them another month or 2. Sending a certified letter say mid Nov, and then a follow up letter letting them know they have 30 more days to pay before you take them to court putting you towards Jan.

3) I am so sorry, I guess next time have the funds due 48 hours before the wedding? IDK that stinks..

 

[tvguy]

I am unfamiliar with an the concept of an individual being legally or practically able to "age" an invoice. Businesses, yes. Six weeks is a common practice in our industry. For an individual I guess I always assumed it would be considered a case of simple default.

At what point would a magistrate in small claims consider an individual's unpaid invoice to transition from "aging" to "non-payment"?

Well, the whole aging thing really is moot since it will be months (6-9 around here ) before a court date is set for small claims court, and if the bill isn't paid by then it will clearly be beyond any reasonable time to be paid.

My employer 3 jobs ago (a major corporation) stamped the date a bill arrived and put them on the shelf for 30 days. After 30 days it was moved to the "to be paid" bin, and then 30 days later, it was paid. So 90 days after it was received, and usually 60 days after the due date. Small vendors had the biggest issue with this, and some started demanding payment in advance of service. Our gasoline credit cards would get shut off from time to time, but always got turned back on and interest charges and late fees lifted because when you are buying millions of dollars in gasoline a year, and do eventually pay, they want to keep your business.

A friend owns several office buildings that he leases to the State of California, he says the rent payments are always 4 to 5 months late, but he always gets paid.

 

[tvguy]

You don't need an attorney for a Small Claims Court case and an attorney will cost you more than the $400+ you're seeking.

Just send a certified/return receipt letter to her (and/or whoever signed the contract) demanding payment and include a copy of the contract with the section regarding payment highlighted. Send it via regular mail as well.

Tell her if you do not receive payment IN FULL within 10 days of the date of your letter, you will be taking her to small claims court for the amount she owes PLUS court costs.

Never hurts to consult an attorney, and while I do not know all the local smalls claims rules, I thought most prohibited an attorney from actually representing you in small claims court, you have to represent yourself.

 

[ariel71]

I am unfamiliar with an the concept of an individual being legally or practically able to "age" an invoice. Businesses, yes. Six weeks is a common practice in our industry. For an individual I guess I always assumed it would be considered a case of simple default.

At what point would a magistrate in small claims consider an individual's unpaid invoice to transition from "aging" to "non-payment"?

No one is saying "aging" has anything to do with the legality of not paying. You don't have to do anything to "age" an invoice; it simply starts aging by the nature of being unpaid. Aging is just a way to track and monitor how long outstanding invoices have remained unpaid. There simply must be an expectation in any business (even if the "business" is the provision of services by an individual) that not everyone is going to pay on time, every time. Most businesses have different procedures built around each point in the aging timeline - for example, first notice sent at 30 days, second notice with collection warning sent at 60 days, sent to collections at 90 days.

The default happens as soon as the payee doesn't meet the contract terms. It's just a matter of what course of action the business/individual chooses to pursue at that time. No one is saying she doesn't have the right to her money. But if she files in small claims court, and it takes 6-8 months to be resolved, it may be more practical in this situation to just simply talk to the bride without the "where's my money" stick. I don't think emailing four times in the course of a month is doing her any favors. And as I also mentioned, her business 1) may be dependent on referrals and 2) only has one set of customers, so I would tread a little more lightly in the immediate term. At 30 days, I wouldn't be considering legal action because I'd be looking at the bigger picture of the impact to my business if things go sour.

 

[tvguy]

No one is saying "aging" has anything to do with the legality of not paying. You don't have to do anything to "age" an invoice; it simply starts aging by the nature of being unpaid. Aging is just a way to track and monitor how long outstanding invoices have remained unpaid. There simply must be an expectation in any business (even if the "business" is the provision of services by an individual) that not everyone is going to pay on time, every time. Most businesses have different procedures built around each point in the aging timeline - for example, first notice sent at 30 days, second notice with collection warning sent at 60 days, sent to collections at 90 days.

The default happens as soon as the payee doesn't meet the contract terms. It's just a matter of what course of action the business/individual chooses to pursue at that time. No one is saying she doesn't have the right to her money. But if she files in small claims court, and it takes 6-8 months to be resolved, it may be more practical in this situation to just simply talk to the bride without the "where's my money" stick. I don't think emailing four times in the course of a month is doing her any favors. And as I also mentioned, her business 1) may be dependent on referrals and 2) only has one set of customers, so I would tread a little more lightly in the immediate term. At 30 days, I wouldn't be considering legal action because I'd be looking at the bigger picture of the impact to my business if things go sour.

Well stated.

 

[Eastern]

I just filed a claim in small claims court in early September against a corporation. My case was scheduled for 4 weeks later. Company called in 3 weeks to settle. So easy.

My other case was about 5 years ago, but had the same time frame. File, court case scheduled for a month later.

 

[ready123go]

Just a reality check. Called "aging", and it is not uncommon, and it is an accepted business practice. I bring it up because of the discussion of going to small claims court. A very common standard in court is to not only look at the black and white of the contract, but what accepted practice is. This is why most creditors don't start action until a payment is more than 90 days past due. Court is fine, but given the payment is only 34 days later, in the courts view maybe the action was filed prematurely.

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/what_is_invoice_aging/

No one is saying "aging" has anything to do with the legality of not paying. You don't have to do anything to "age" an invoice; it simply starts aging by the nature of being unpaid. Aging is just a way to track and monitor how long outstanding invoices have remained unpaid. There simply must be an expectation in any business (even if the "business" is the provision of services by an individual) that not everyone is going to pay on time, every time. Most businesses have different procedures built around each point in the aging timeline - for example, first notice sent at 30 days, second notice with collection warning sent at 60 days, sent to collections at 90 days.

The default happens as soon as the payee doesn't meet the contract terms. It's just a matter of what course of action the business/individual chooses to pursue at that time. No one is saying she doesn't have the right to her money. But if she files in small claims court, and it takes 6-8 months to be resolved, it may be more practical in this situation to just simply talk to the bride without the "where's my money" stick. I don't think emailing four times in the course of a month is doing her any favors. And as I also mentioned, her business 1) may be dependent on referrals and 2) only has one set of customers, so I would tread a little more lightly in the immediate term. At 30 days, I wouldn't be considering legal action because I'd be looking at the bigger picture of the impact to my business if things go sour.

I am not confused about the definition or the practice of aging, as it applies to businesses. I am unclear how aging applies to a private individual as a customer and why or how it might prevent one from taking them to small claims.

I understand tvguy's statement to mean that an individual might use "aging" as a defense in small claims court or that a magistrate might find that a reason to dismiss a case, in spite of what the contract states.

If this is possible outcome, I would like to know.

 

[ready123go]

If cases are taking 6 to 8 months to be heard, I would see it as critical to file as early as possible.

With our recent small claims case, we filed in late September and had a court date in late October. Like Eastern, the defendant was calling a week prior to the court date asking to settle.

 

[tvguy]

I am not confused about the definition or the practice of aging, as it applies to businesses. I am unclear how aging applies to a private individual as a customer and why or how it might prevent one from taking them to small claims.

I understand tvguy's statement to mean that an individual might use "aging" as a defense in small claims court or that a magistrate might find that a reason to dismiss a case, in spite of what the contract states.

If this is possible outcome, I would like to know.

It doesn't prevent you from going to small claims court. While the law is black and white, in court there is wiggle room. You hear the phrase "what a reasonable person would do" in a situation. Has the OP exhausted all other remedies? Court is the last resort. Does a reasonable person go to court when payment is less than 30 days late?

Sort of like getting a speeding ticket. 1 mile an hour is a violation on the freeway with a 70 mile an hour limit, and at least here the practice is not to cite you unless you are 15 mph over the limit, and usually the citation says you were going 10 over the limit.