I have a question (and thoughts) about bullying...

[skater]

I don't think actual bullying has increased, but our awareness of it certainly has. I was tormented relentlessly by older girls from about my 8th grade year to sophomore/junior years when it died down because most of those kids graduated. Looking back as an adult, I don't think there's anything I personally could have done to stop it. It would have taken pretty severe action on the part of adults, and by severe I mean the harassers would have had to have been kicked out of school or had to go in front of a judge.



Again, I think our awareness of it has increased. Without going into a ton of detail, I was in a workplace bullying situation two years ago (these women ganged up, said mean things and did the social shunning thing just like you would hear about in a junior high!). It was shocking! I thought after what I'd experienced in high school that I was one tough cookie and would NEVER be at someone else's mercy again, but boy was I wrong. If an educated grown adult can be the victim of this, then what chance would a kid have? I'd ended up getting counseling, and luck would have it that I found a counselor who was doing a lot of research in workplace bullying or "mobbing" as it's come to be labeled. I'd also come to discover that I wasn't the first or only victim of these people.

Thanks for being so candid. I am one who does believe bullying and especially the severity of bullying is increasing (but I haven't read the research, so I could be wrong ). So, if bullying is really increasing, it makes sense that we will see more of this in the workplace.

I am a homeschooler and so, my kids have never had to deal with ongoing bullying. They've dealt with mean kids before of course, but never the daily grind of being mentally and/or physically tortured with no way to get away from it. Some people believe homeschooled kids will not be able to handle the "real world" when they're adults. My contention has always been that school is not the real world, and they will be fine because their self-esteem will be intact . Who knows what the reality will be, and with bullying being an issue in the working world, it will be interesting to see how my kids fare. My guess it that there is a little bit of truth in both arguments - in some ways they will have to adjust to the sometimes cut throat reality of the world, but I think they are growing up to be strong individuals who will be able to learn how to deal with difficult people. On a side note, my oldest child has been working in retail for 4 months and so far, is doing fine.

I will say, as a parent, its a relief to not have to worry about them being bullied every day.

 

[Buckalew11]

This was basically the case for my dd's first bully in 4th grade. Although this went on for years, it escalated and eventually she was doing less of the bullying and follwing the other's leads.

In 7th grade, was when I found out it was getting bad with this particular girl. When DD and I talked about it, she said that she tried to be understanding of this girl because she had a lot of trouble in her life--her parents were an interacial couple (not as common around here), her dad in jail all of her life, her mom divorced, remarried a white man. Then when this girl was in 4th grade, she became a big sister and this girl was *all* white so that caused a lot of trouble within for her. she was "different" within her family with an absent real dad (whom she spoke of often). Then her mom got cancer (survived but had a few tough yrs). And who knows what else...

In 7th grade when the bullying was rough with this girl, DH called the stepdad, who he knew from yrs. back. There was no denial, nothing like you expect. He knew she was having trouble and knew she was bullying kids because the school had spoken to them about it through the years. At that point, with her, it was almost stopped. she took part in it in 8th grade but not to the degree of the yrs. past.

It was the other girls who started and made DD's life miserable. However, the school was still trying to blame girl #1 for it all.

To a PP about a boy with a lemur, I find that type behavior quite odd. But still, while kids may think it is strange, funny, weird, etc. does that give anyone the right to bully that kid? Why can't they just ignore him and not say anything?

 

[Disney Doll]

I understand why she would want to do that...but in our school district she would have been suspended no matter if the boys parents complained or not.

And if she was my kid, I'd be OK with that because I guarantee you that this boy is never going to bother her again.

 

[LisaR]

To a PP about a boy with a lemur, I find that type behavior quite odd. But still, while kids may think it is strange, funny, weird, etc. does that give anyone the right to bully that kid? Why can't they just ignore him and not say anything?

I don't disagree with you at all but it isn't reality. It is nice to believe that people will ignore him, accept him or live and let live but it just isn't the way our society works. Knowing that, why would you allow your teen to continue to do something that you know will cause him to be picked on?

Here is the link to the story that involves the boy with the lemur. There isn't any indication that this boy was mentally challenged. He was flamboyant and different. It is utterly despicable that other human beings would bully someone just because they are different but knowing how our society works, I would not allow my son to go to high school with a stuffed animal strapped to his arm. It isn't fair but bullies pick on easy targets and this kid was a very easy target.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101008/ap_on_re_us/us_bullying_one_town

 

[hentob]

And if she was my kid, I'd be OK with that because I guarantee you that this boy is never going to bother her again.

Yep. If my daughter fought back and was suspended for it, that day of "punishment" would be filled with manicures and pedicures and ice cream

 

[Buckalew11]

My daughter did fight back and yes, I am proud of her for it. But she wasn't caught so she wasn't suspended. I only know of one time that she actually fought back.That said, the bullies weren't caught either. So they were never suspended either. Of course, not much one kid can do when it is a group of girl doing the bullying.


LisaR, if I was his parent, I wouldn't allow it either. But I'm rather strict and not to indulgent, lol, whether it be a stuffed lemur, a stuffed animal/blanket on "test day" for comfort (oh brother!), or many other things like that.
But kids have a responsibilty for their reaction to things like that. It is easy to make fun of and pick on a kid like that one. "Do hard things"--and don't give in to the temptation. But you are right, not a perfect world. So parents should help their kids out by showing them that some things are just asking for trouble.

My kid was bullied for winning MVP on her b-ball team at a tourney. Hardly a lemur on her arm that I could have helped her with. SHe was bullied for being on the school's scholar's bowl team, handing in homework on time, wanting to attend college--hardly things to be bullied about.
The guidance counselor called me and said, "She doesn't fit in, she'll never fit in, and you do not want her to fit in. This is the most agressive group of girls we have ever seen. They bully each other, the boys in the class and even upper claamen."
That said it all. We tried and tried...we pulled her out the end of 8th grade.

 

[Pixie Dust for Me!]

Yep. If my daughter fought back and was suspended for it, that day of "punishment" would be filled with manicures and pedicures and ice cream

You sound a lot like my parents who took me out for dinner the night I stood up to the bus bully and made it clear how proud they were of me! I love them for this and many other reasons!

K

 

[hentob]

You sound a lot like my parents who took me out for dinner the night I stood up to the bus bully and made it clear how proud they were of me! I love them for this and many other reasons!

K

I would also write a letter to thank the principal for the Spa Day.

Zero Tolerance=Zero Brains

 

[tigercat]

I was bullied my entire school year. I was shut out of everything. I hated school. The reason I was bullied? I am short (4'8"tall) weighed almost nothing, did my work and worked hard. Could I fight against them? Hardly. How do you fight against everyone. Nothing was ever done about it as it was just kids being kids. Now I am 54 yrs and to this day remembers my "wonderful" school years. Fast forward to my kids, and my 2 daughters were bullied. My daughter had one friend and bot were bullied. One day a group of boys set her friends hair on fire. My daughter threw some snow on it. What happened to the boys??? Nothing. My other daughter was bullied by a guy. One day she turned around really quick and with her steel toed boots kicked him where it hurt. Never came after her again. Happened just off of school property. Now my granddaughters (3 of them) are in school and thankfully they have not had a problem. Hope this keeps up. Telling the kids were are bullied that they need to change as one poster says can only be done sometimes. I really wished that I was taller. That would have been nice but not going to happen.
tigercat

 

[MushyMushy]

I was bullied my entire school year. I was shut out of everything. I hated school. The reason I was bullied? I am short (4'8"tall) weighed almost nothing, did my work and worked hard. Could I fight against them? Hardly. How do you fight against everyone. Nothing was ever done about it as it was just kids being kids. Now I am 54 yrs and to this day remembers my "wonderful" school years. Fast forward to my kids, and my 2 daughters were bullied. My daughter had one friend and bot were bullied. One day a group of boys set her friends hair on fire. My daughter threw some snow on it. What happened to the boys??? Nothing. My other daughter was bullied by a guy. One day she turned around really quick and with her steel toed boots kicked him where it hurt. Never came after her again. Happened just off of school property. Now my granddaughters (3 of them) are in school and thankfully they have not had a problem. Hope this keeps up. Telling the kids were are bullied that they need to change as one poster says can only be done sometimes. I really wished that I was taller. That would have been nice but not going to happen.
tigercat

I agree with that statement. My daughter was picked on all through elementary school because she had a speech and language disability AND because she had curly hair. It's ridiculous the things kids will find to pick on. She's a freshman now and speaks properly and straightens her hair, but that will stick with her always.

I don't believe that being picked on will build strength or character. It'll just wear a person down until they have no strength left.

 

[Mermaid02]

I truly think the world is a much scarier place than it used to be- bullies have more vicious tactics and the victims often have more horrible ways of dealing. I think this is WHY parents and school officials and any adult who sees it needs to step in and not just "let kids be kids".

 

[Patricia]

Just finished reading the People magazine with all the articles on bullying. It really is a sad situation for a nation with so much diversity and so much history of trying to make differences accepted. We have legislated and talked for so long about " acceptance", but it is in our homes that the bar is set. Every time we as parents or adults engage in a conversation that identifies a trait as something to talk about, we show our children that the differences in us are something to note. Every time we take notice of the inter-racial couple, the gay person, the fat person, the tall person, the nerdy person, the goth person, the muslim person, the jewish person, the list goes on and on.... we make our differences more relevant than how we are the same. I have worked my whole life with adolescents, passed through a whole generation now, and I still hear people of my age pointing out what is different about others. That is where our children learn that a trait of any kind is something that is to be focused upon. That is where the basis of bullying starts. Right in our kitchens. As a generation of adults, we have failed. JMHO

 

[luv2sew]

I did NOT read this entire thread but I think that bullying is real and today kids are brutal.....maybe it's what they see on TV or what they hear in the music they listen to but ......

I would hope that I had a good enough relationship with my kids to know when they are making something up and when they are not, cause as a Mom I know what my kids are all about just by looking into their eyes.

I think my kids would have been on the let's bully them list if they hadn't taken some of the actions they took in high school....one we HAD placed into honors classes after being told she didn't quite measure up to them....sorry NOT so fast she graduated 25 in her class...huh! the other went on to vocational technical school for the last three years of high school and he is now in his last year of a 4 year degree. They both also were members of the school band and that I think was a HUGE help, getting them involved in an extra curricular activity that the kids in it were decent kids (in our district they are anyway)

So if I had a kid that was bullied I would take hold my kids hand and RUN them away from that school as fast as I could even if I had to home school them and I have a niece that had parents do just that...she is today cyber schooling her last two years of high school and loves it.

In fact I have reason to believe that my DD was starting to get bullied in her freshman year in college......MOM stepped in and that was that...we filed a police report. She graduated from that school with an honors degree. If it hadn't stopped....I would also have RUN her away from that college.

Now I know that many of you will say running away does not help....but it can't hurt to try anything to keep kids safe these days.

 

[Pigeon]

I was bullied my entire school year. I was shut out of everything. I hated school. The reason I was bullied? I am short (4'8"tall) weighed almost nothing, did my work and worked hard. Could I fight against them? Hardly. How do you fight against everyone. Nothing was ever done about it as it was just kids being kids.

I'm so sorry.

That's why my husband was bullied, too, because he was short. He went from being the smallest kid in the class one year, and being beaten up three times a week, to being 6'6" a year later. Oddly, the little jerks stopped picking on him then.

My dd is being bullied because she is Asian and because she's a great student.

Reading some of the comments on this thread make me want to vomit, but it does give me some insight into how bullies are made if this is the way some parents really think. There's more bullying because of "political correctness?" Yeah, I guess it's just political correctness to not want to be subject to racial and sexual slurs.

Then there's the blame the victim mentality--if kids are at all different than the mainstream, they are asking to be bullied. Right, and rape victims are just asking for it for what they wear. No, the blame lies with the person committing the offense, not the victim.

 

[Mermaid02]

I'm so sorry.

That's why my husband was bullied, too, because he was short. He went from being the smallest kid in the class one year, and being beaten up three times a week, to being 6'6" a year later. Oddly, the little jerks stopped picking on him then.

My dd is being bullied because she is Asian and because she's a great student.

Reading some of the comments on this thread make me want to vomit, but it does give me some insight into how bullies are made if this is the way some parents really think. There's more bullying because of "political correctness?" Yeah, I guess it's just political correctness to not want to be subject to racial and sexual slurs.

Then there's the blame the victim mentality--if kids are at all different than the mainstream, they are asking to be bullied. Right, and rape victims are just asking for it for what they wear. No, the blame lies with the person committing the offense, not the victim.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with you.

 

[Magpie]

I truly think the world is a much scarier place than it used to be- bullies have more vicious tactics and the victims often have more horrible ways of dealing. I think this is WHY parents and school officials and any adult who sees it needs to step in and not just "let kids be kids".

I don't agree. I know it's a popular opinion to think that the world's going to heck in a hand basket, but I'm almost 40 and bullying WAS worse when I was a kid. Believe me, I got the death threats and anonymous hate messages on my answering machine, I was spit on, my bike was vandalized repeatedly - and one of the teachers was right in there with the bullies, cutting me down!

In the old days people thought that bullying was just "unhappy kids stealing lunch money". They didn't see verbal, physical and emotional abuse happening, because they weren't looking for it. Teachers had more free reign. Schools take bullying far more seriously now, and parents are quicker to step in and take action instead of just assuming that "the teacher's always right".

Yes, bullying is more in the media, but that's a GOOD sign. It doesn't mean there's more bullying going on, it means we take it more seriously now and we're looking for answers.

 

[bicker]

So 'bullying' and 'cyber bullying' has been in the news and in the media a lot lately, and it has me thinking. Why is it that death threats and other threats of bodily harm called 'bullying' when it comes to kids/teens, but if it were adults, it would be called harassment? I don't get it. It seems to trivialize the gravity of the situation, regardless of the intent of the 'bully.'

Is it just me, or have things changed drastically since we were kids? I'm only 30 and bullying used to mean there was one kid who was just a really unhappy kid that made him/herself feel better by being mean to other kids, or roughing a kid up for his/her lunch money. What happened?? Now it has escalated into death threats, kids telling kids to kill themselves, kids telling kids that they wish the other would die? Seriously??

Thanks for posting this. A few notes:

I agree with you that there is a inexplicable distinction made between the cases when children do it versus when adults do it. To some extent, it does make sense to hold adults more accountable for their actions. However, the offense is against children, therefore that should make it such that people consider the offense more grievous. Effectively, the two should cancel each other out, IMHO, and child-against-child should be treated with as much gravity as adult-against-adult.

I don't think things have changed drastically (at least not in the way you imply) over time. My wife and I are much older than you, and comparable situations have been occurring since we were children. As a matter of fact, I recall stories my late mother told me about how bullying - grievous bullying - was very common when she was going to school, and that was over sixty years ago. If anything has changed, with regard to these kinds of things, it is that our society has worked to overcome its myopia regarding this issue, and has had some minor success in that regard. Perhaps it seems worse now because we're not as ignorant of the issue.

Unfortunately, too many people are stuck in this "kids will be kids" mentality, as if that ever excused anything. As adults, our responsibility has always been to protect those who could not adequately protect themselves. The idea that standing-up for one's self invariably leads to superior character is a fiction people have told themselves to rationalize their lack of conscientious action - to rationalize their avoidance of responsibility for teaching the more forceful children that their way is wrong.

This institutionalized irresponsibility has almost surely led to increasing levels of self-centeredness, and violence in our society. We have taught our children that taking what you want is right; that marginalizing others is acceptable; that violence is a reasonable means of dealing with desire. How many other maladies of our society have been fed by this? Entitlement mentality - where people expect to have whatever they want, regardless of what they're actually promised? Spiraling political polarization - where the "other side" is no longer just "not the best approach" but now is deemed certifiably evil? Road rage - effectively the schoolyard bully put behind the steering wheel of a car? Domestic violence - bullies bullying their spouses? Child abuse - bullies bullying their own children? And so on.

 

[Mermaid02]

I don't agree. I know it's a popular opinion to think that the world's going to heck in a hand basket, but I'm almost 40 and bullying WAS worse when I was a kid. Believe me, I got the death threats and anonymous hate messages on my answering machine, I was spit on, my bike was vandalized repeatedly - and one of the teachers was right in there with the bullies, cutting me down!

In the old days people thought that bullying was just "unhappy kids stealing lunch money". They didn't see verbal, physical and emotional abuse happening, because they weren't looking for it. Teachers had more free reign. Schools take bullying far more seriously now, and parents are quicker to step in and take action instead of just assuming that "the teacher's always right".

Yes, bullying is more in the media, but that's a GOOD sign. It doesn't mean there's more bullying going on, it means we take it more seriously now and we're looking for answers.

What I'm saying is, when I was a kid, nobody EVER brought a gun to school. If a couple of boys were bullied, they didn't create an elaborate plan to take out the student body (Columbine).

Sorry you were victimized- I hope now that those folks are grown what they did haunts them.

 

[bicker]

What I'm saying is, when I was a kid, nobody EVER brought a gun to school.

I suppose, as is the case today, it depends on where:

February 23, 1943: “Harry Wyman, 13-year-old son of Mr. and Mrs. Frederick Wyman of Port Chester, NY … shot himself dead tonight at the Harvey School, a boys’ preparatory school.”

June 26, 1946: “A 15-year-old schoolboy who balked at turning over his pocket money to a gang of seven Negro youths was shot in the chest at 11:30 A.M. yesterday in the basement of the Public School 147 annex of the Brooklyn High School for Automotive Trades.”

November 24, 1946: “A 13-year-old student at St. Benedict’s Parochial School here shot and fatally wounded himself tonight while sitting in an audience watching a school play.”

December 24, 1948: “A 14-year-old boy was wounded fatally here today by an accidental shot from the .22-caliber rifle of a fellow-student … the youth was shot in the head when he chanced into range where Robert Ross, 17, of Brooklyn, was shooting at a target near a lake on the school property.”

March 12, 1949: “A 16-year-old student at Stuyvesant High School, 345 Fifteenth Street, was accidentally shot in the right arm yesterday afternoon by a fellow student who, police said, was ‘showing off’ with a pistol in a classroom.”

July 22, 1950: “A 16-year-old boy was shot in the wrist and abdomen at 10 o’clock last night in Public School 141 … during an argument with a former classmate. They were attending a weekly dance sponsored by the Board of Education.”

November 27, 1951: “David Brooks, a 15-year-old student, was fatally shot as fellow-pupils looked on in a grade school here today.”

April 9, 1952: “A 15-year-old boarding-school student who shot a dean rather than relinquish pin-up pictures of girls in bathing suits was charged with murderous assault today.”

October 20, 1956: “A junior high school student was wounded in the forearm yesterday by another student armed with a home-made weapon at Booker T. Washington Junior High School.”

October 2, 1957: “A 16-year old student was shot in the leg yesterday by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.”

March 12, 1958: “A 17-year-old student was indicted yesterday for carrying a dangerous weapon. He had shot a boy in the Manual Training High School March 4.”

May 1, 1958: “A 15-year-old high school freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom of the Massapequa High School today.”

 

[KatheeME]

Thank you for bringing this up. It's a very serious, deadly situation. I remember being "teased" a lot as a child, and told it was only teasing, but it really, really hurt and I still remember to this day. Maybe it had been taken more seriously then? It's so sad and so senseless ...

Kathee in Maine