I guess I'm in a very small minority: Serena Williams

[Doctor P]

Again, I don't really agree with the behavior but a 10 second youtube search turns up video of John McEnroe and Roger Federer smashing their rackets over bad calls.

Were they fined 10k? Forced to apologize? What was their punishment?

In fairness, McEnroe was fined a few times, was penalized some points, and even was suspended one or more times during his career (I found one case of a two month suspension). Same for Jimmy Connors. Ilie Nastase was another one who ran afoul a few times.

 

[pozey]

Right, but it did effect the outcome of the game. The match was decided by the judge NOT though game play.

I understand what you are saying..that if Serena would have not said anything, she could have still had a chance to win.

However, it was an unclear foul and in the end the line judge decided who won not the players.

I actually don't have a huge issue with her losing the match over this.

I do take issue with the amount of grief she is getting over this when male tennis players have behaved similarly with little/no reprimands.

I'm not going to get into the debate on whether she is being treated differently than a male player who has had outbursts....however, I do disagree with you saying the match was decided by the judge.

I'm assuming that this judge's only responsibility is to look for foot faults. She apparently saw her foot on the line and called the foul. Isn't that the rule? And just because it came on a certain point in the match, she shouldn't call it? Should the line judge not call a ball out if it is match point? Regardless of timing, judges should call it as they see them. However, I think that a camera should be placed on the end line so as to give instant replays.

And again, that did not end the match. That just made the score 15-40. The tirade that she threw cost her a conduct penalty. And since this was Serena's SECOND conduct penalty of the match, it cost her a point.

Plus....Clijsters WON the match. She outplayed Williams pretty much the entire match. The foot fault and subsequent conduct penalty cost Serena a total of 2 points in the match. The two points just unfortunately came at the most inopportune time.

 

[patsfan101]

Officials make bad calls. It happens. It happens in Little League, the NFL, and pro tennis. We have taught our kids that the umpire, referee, etc is in charge - you do not question, let alone argue. Too bad Serena didn't learn that same lesson.

 

[Doctor P]

Officials make bad calls. It happens. It happens in Little League, the NFL, and pro tennis. We have taught our kids that the umpire, referee, etc is in charge - you do not question, let alone argue. Too bad Serena didn't learn that same lesson.

The problem is that we also teach and ask our kids to be accountable--officials in most of our sports are NOT held accountable and not made to bear the consequences of their "bad calls." If I make a bad call as a teacher, you can bet that I will get the wrath of God thrown at me and, in some cases, lose my job. It should be the same for these idiots who try to be the center of attention and affect the outcome of a game that they are supposed only be an ancillary part of.

 

[honugirl]

The problem is that we also teach and ask our kids to be accountable--officials in most of our sports are NOT held accountable and not made to bear the consequences of their "bad calls." If I make a bad call as a teacher, you can bet that I will get the wrath of God thrown at me and, in some cases, lose my job. It should be the same for these idiots who try to be the center of attention and affect the outcome of a game that they are supposed only be an ancillary part of.

When I make a bad call in a hockey game, exactly how do you expect me to be held accountable? Should I award your team a goal because I messed up an off-sides or an icing? I am accountable to myself. I know when I've made a bad call and all I can do during the game to fix it is to do a face-off at the proper location and try to learn from what I did for next time. It does not deserve a player getting in my face and telling me to put my whistle away or any one of the horrible things that has been said to me. I'm only human. I have to make a decision in a split second. Those of you who judge us should try to officiate any game and see how hard it is. It's really easy to criticize us and berate us, but how many of you that do that actually step up to the plate and officiate? I have not seen ONE SINGLE PLAYER that berates me step up and come to a yearly seminar and skate with us. You'll learn that there's way more to it than anyone spectating really knows.

 

[purplebelle]

I'm not a huge tennis fan, nor am I a huge Serena Williams fan, but I think that the incident that precipitated her outburst has not received the attention it deserves and the linesperson should have to pay the price for her stupidity and lack of a thick skin. The chair umpire should have also taken control before the whole thing blew up. I think it is absolutely idiotic that they don't identify the linesperson as well (as a matter of policy). Here we are talking about one of the biggest tournaments in tennis and you get to the semifinals and you have a linesperson make a call that should never have been made (and it is even unclear whether it was technically even a correct call or one that she could have seen from her position--if a camera on close-up is inconclusive, I'm not sure how a human can make that call in a split second from several yards away). And then she doesn't expect to get yelled at and be accountable for her decision? EGADS. Ms. Williams had hundreds of thousands of dollars riding on that game, was still in the match (they were on serve and the break in that game won the match--if she wins that game the set would have been tied 6-6), and gets victimized by this incident. Agreed that she went ballistic, agreed that she used inappropriate language and terminology--but the whole thing would have never happened if the linesperson didn't decide that she was bigger than the game. I think there are reasons why Serena has become the bad person in the story, but I will leave those to other more appropriate venues.

Bad calls happen all the time, no matter how important a match/game is. It's not like just because it's the US Open that all calls are going to be perfect.

I haven't seen all footage but I think Serena's actions speak for herself. Very embarrassing...

 

[pozey]

The problem is that we also teach and ask our kids to be accountable--officials in most of our sports are NOT held accountable and not made to bear the consequences of their "bad calls." If I make a bad call as a teacher, you can bet that I will get the wrath of God thrown at me and, in some cases, lose my job. It should be the same for these idiots who try to be the center of attention and affect the outcome of a game that they are supposed only be an ancillary part of.

I agree to an extent with you here. I think officials should be held accountable for the calls they make. I think they should come into the interview room and have someone ask them "Why did you make that call?"

However, I don't think this official was tying to be "the center of attention and affect the outcome of a game". I think she made a call that she thought her foot was on the line. And since there were no cameras focused strictly on the baseline, you can't tell if it was a good, or bad, call.

It happens in other sports as well, even in sports where instant replay is used.

Does anyone honestly think that if a baseball player says to the Umpire "I'm gonna shove this ******* bat down your ******* throat" he isn't going to be immediately tossed from the game? And then subsequently suspended for a couple games by the league?

Whether the call was correct or incorrect is hard to debate because there is no video evidence to support either argument.

 

[honugirl]

I heard a statistic once that I make several THOUSAND decisions in an average hour and a half hockey game. How many of you can make that many decisions perfectly correct?

Serena should have accepted the call and gone back to playing.

 

[sunnyday123]

I totally agree with you. Men can behave badly but the "little woman" should have kept in her place and been polite. John McEnroe constantly acted horribly but no one ever made a fuss like this about him.

The lineperson even said that Serena said she'd kill her. Never happened.

John McEnroe built a whole career on his behavior, and it was always laughed about it.

Who hasn't told someone they are going to shove something up/down someone? I agree, you lose points, get a fine, blah blah blah. Apparently now the youth today are going to run rampant in the streets because of her behavior.

Meanwhile, Michael Vick may start as quarterback for the Eagles now that McNabb is hurt.

 

[patsfan101]

The problem is that we also teach and ask our kids to be accountable--officials in most of our sports are NOT held accountable and not made to bear the consequences of their "bad calls." If I make a bad call as a teacher, you can bet that I will get the wrath of God thrown at me and, in some cases, lose my job. It should be the same for these idiots who try to be the center of attention and affect the outcome of a game that they are supposed only be an ancillary part of.

Also a teacher here. It would have to be a heck of a bad call for you to lose your job over! This was a foot fault. All I''m saying is that I would bet that every official has at least one bad call in their past. I know that my daughter was the recipient of a bad call in a softball game and she jsut stood up, went back to her position and kept playing. Three more runs came in that inning when it should ahve over. Her father and I let her know that she did the right thing by not even rolling her eyes. Just move on.

Alright, it was little league, not a multi-million dollar tennis match, but still, bad calls happen. Matches are not decided on one foot-fault.

 

[georgina]

I believe you are in the minority! What price would you have the line judge pay?

Also, I thought the announcers said the chair umpire called her over to ask what Serena said to her, not that she just ran over to report it.

 

[pearlieq]

Officials make bad calls. It happens. It happens in Little League, the NFL, and pro tennis. We have taught our kids that the umpire, referee, etc is in charge - you do not question, let alone argue.

I disagree completely. I expect kids to be civil, but I would never tell them that the official is beyond question and I would never let them play in a league where those are the rules.

I expect them to think critically and to advocate for themselves when necessary, not just swallow whatever some "authority" tells them even if they believe it's wrong. We're not raising drones.

Questioning a call can be done politely and respectfully and that's how I expect it to be done. I also expect the offical to respond politely and respectfully to a legitimate question.

I saw an interesting statistic while watching an NFL game last night--I guess in 2008 the league average for successful coaches challenges was around 38%. So 38% of the time, highly skilled, trained referees with the ability to watch a replay and confer with each other STILL get the call wrong.

And officialls shoudn't be questioned? No way.

As for Ms. Williams, I'm somewhat sympathetic. While she shouldn't have gone off the way she did, she had plenty of understandable reasons for doing so. Was it her finest moment? No. Do I think she's a terrible person? No.

 

[Doctor P]

I'm not arguing about bad calls--they do happen and, yes, officials are human. And...officials when you see the replays are overwhelmingly correct in their calls. That is extremely impressive. My issue is with officials who try to interject themselves into the game and become part of the game (and then won't be accountable for doing so). I have officiated and I know it is a difficult and thankless job. I have been screamed at, too. But, I was accountable for my calls, too. The best officials will admit to blowing a call and they do that when appropriate. In addition, there are officials who do such a good job that you accept it when they make a bad call because of how good they are on a regular basis (e.g., Tim McClelland behind the plate in MLB). On the other hand, in an active sport it is absolutely unacceptable for an official to not hustle and therefore end up out of position to make a correct call. Most coaches will tell you that they will accept a call they disagree with if the umpire or referee has hustled and put themselves in an excellent position to see the play.

In the case of the Serena Williams incident, the linesperson had no business making a call that can't be upheld by replay at that point in a match. That is, if the foul was not clear enough to see on replay it wasn't clear enough to call from the sidelines. That indicates that the linesperson was looking to interject herself into the match, IMHO, and then run away and hide when she got called on it. Just look at the linesperson's reaction and you will see the sneer, etc. Deplorable.

 

[Doctor P]

I believe you are in the minority! What price would you have the line judge pay?

Also, I thought the announcers said the chair umpire called her over to ask what Serena said to her, not that she just ran over to report it.

The chair umpire blew it. His first question should have been--"are you absolutely sure of your call? I didn't see a fault. Unless you are absolutely sure, I am going to overrule you."

 

[Doctor P]

I believe you are in the minority! What price would you have the line judge pay?

Also, I thought the announcers said the chair umpire called her over to ask what Serena said to her, not that she just ran over to report it.

That one's easy. She should be banned from officiating in any sport. Then she should have a judgement placed against her for one half of the difference in the prize money from finishing tied for third and finishing second in the U.S. Open. In sum, there is no cure for stupid.

 

[pozey]

In the case of the Serena Williams incident, the linesperson had no business making a call that can't be upheld by replay at that point in a match. That is, if the foul was not clear enough to see on replay it wasn't clear enough to call from the sidelines. That indicates that the linesperson was looking to interject herself into the match, IMHO, and then run away and hide when she got called on it. Just look at the linesperson's reaction and you will see the sneer, etc. Deplorable.

Well, since foot faults are not a foul that is reviewable, then are you saying that official should not make any calls? And since she was sitting on the sideline, that's where she called it from.

And I have seen the replay....I didn't see a sneer.

Again, I'm not saying it was a good, or bad, call....there is no video evidence to prove one way or the other.

I just don't think the foul was called just for the sake of calling a foul. I think she saw a foul and called it.

 

[stichlover87]

Regardless of whether the call was wrong or right Serena should have kept her emotions in check. She is a professional athlete, and one of the best Americans tennis players out there and she needs to remember that people look up to her. Also, she had foot faults called on her in other matches this tournament as well (it was not a first time occurrence). I agree the timing was horrible, but rules are rules.

The umpires at these tournaments are human and make errors, but they also go through a lot of training. They are certified and are chosen based on experience and recommendations for these kinds of events.

I played junior tennis and college tennis and had to deal with a lot of horrible calls and decisions made by officials, but it comes with the game. If you choose to play a sport that has officials there will be errors and there will be calls that you do not agree with. However, for every "bad" call there are several good ones and many that go your way. If a junior tennis player did that or a college player did that they would be suspended, no questions about that.

Also, when players crack/throw their racquets or swear they are always fined. You might not hear about it but they are fined.

 

[Sanchez]

I'm torn. Her behavior WAS out of line but it is true that John McEnroe said that and much more and was never fined or anything.

You cannot be serious! Get your facts straight.

Controversy dogged McEnroe when he returned to Wimbledon in 1981. Following his first-round match against Tom Gullikson, McEnroe was fined U.S. $1,500 and came close to being thrown out of the championships after he called umpire Ted James "the pits of the world" and then swore at tournament referee Fred Hoyles. He also made famous the phrase "you cannot be serious"

In response to McEnroe's on-court outbursts during the championships, the All England Club did not accord McEnroe honorary club membership, an honor normally given to singles champions after their first victory.

Controversy was never far from McEnroe, however. In his fourth round match against Mikael Pernfors at the 1990 Australian Open, McEnroe was disqualified for swearing at the umpire, supervisor, and referee. He was warned by the umpire for intimidating a lineswoman and then docked a point for smashing a racket.

http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/McEnroe_John.html

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=57420

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...ualified-from-veteran-s-match-86908-20699610/

There are many more examples of the actions taken against McEnroe.

 

[pozey]

That one's easy. She should be banned from officiating in any sport. Then she should have a judgement placed against her for one half of the difference in the prize money from finishing tied for third and finishing second in the U.S. Open. In sum, there is no cure for stupid.

So you've seen conclusive evidence that the call was bad?

 

[CJBaby]

I'm not a huge tennis fan, nor am I a huge Serena Williams fan, but I think that the incident that precipitated her outburst has not received the attention it deserves and the linesperson should have to pay the price for her stupidity and lack of a thick skin. The chair umpire should have also taken control before the whole thing blew up. I think it is absolutely idiotic that they don't identify the linesperson as well (as a matter of policy). Here we are talking about one of the biggest tournaments in tennis and you get to the semifinals and you have a linesperson make a call that should never have been made (and it is even unclear whether it was technically even a correct call or one that she could have seen from her position--if a camera on close-up is inconclusive, I'm not sure how a human can make that call in a split second from several yards away). And then she doesn't expect to get yelled at and be accountable for her decision? EGADS. Ms. Williams had hundreds of thousands of dollars riding on that game, was still in the match (they were on serve and the break in that game won the match--if she wins that game the set would have been tied 6-6), and gets victimized by this incident. Agreed that she went ballistic, agreed that she used inappropriate language and terminology--but the whole thing would have never happened if the linesperson didn't decide that she was bigger than the game. I think there are reasons why Serena has become the bad person in the story, but I will leave those to other more appropriate venues.

I think you need to watch another replay. Seriously. you can't walk menacingly towards a linesperson (or anyone for that matter) saying "I swear to G-d, I feel like taking this (*&( ball and shoving it down your (*&(& throat. I swear to G-d." and then continue to walk towards them pointing your racquet at them. Even a man in the stands behind the linesperson was too afraid to take a picture of her! Bad calls happen all the time. She still had a chance to win. It was gross.