I got my bees!

[SharonLowe]

I knew someone would come along and fix my "false doctrine of photography".




I don't actually take pictures of basketball games in our church gym, we use it for other things like church functions and cub scout meetings. But if I use a custom white balance and the neutral subject I use is in the "flash" light then the background that is in the "yellowish" light will have an odd color cast, or is there some way around that? And I don't generally use the presets, I shoot RAW and doctor it up in Lightroom (because I'm not good enough to get it right the first time).


What are the benifits of the ExpoDisc over say a WhiBal card?

You need a subject to hold a white or grey card for you, zoom in so that the card covers your frame, then shoot. Use that frame to set your white balance.

Using the ExpoDisc means you don't have to worry about Zooming in. Also, it is more portable than a decent sized white/grey card and won't bend or get messed up.

Sorry to hijack this thread Jen...but the whole white balance thing has me really confused. I have a couple of questions:

Sharon - you mentioned using a grey card to set a custom white balance. I thought you should use white? I thought a grey card was used to check for correct exposure? If you use grey, and tell the camera that anything grey is really supposed to be white, won't your whites be overexposed?

I'm TOTALLY confused about the relationship between color temperature and white balance. If I shoot raw, and use Lightroom, I have the option of adjusting the white balance - I can choose as shot, daylight, shade, flash, etc. If I choose daylight, Lightroom adjusts the temperature to something like 5500 or 5600, and it's presets also adjust the tint by +10. Choosing flash wb sets the same temperature, but without the tint correction. So my question is, is selecting your wb really the same as adjusting the temperature of your picture? And I know this is going to sound like a really stupid question - when choosing a wb in Lightroom, are you supposed to choose an option that best represents the conditions in which you were shooting, or the temperature you want as a final result?

You need a neutral card to set the white balance and either grey or white card serves that purpose. Setting the white balance does not affect your exposure. (Not to confuse anyone, but I have a Canon D60 converted to Infrared use only. To set the white balance for it, first, I look for a nice patch of green grass (because green shows as white in IR), defocus my lens, and shoot one image to use to set my IR white balance. In IR, green is the neutral color.)

Flash WB is meant to be totally neutral so that is why you have no tint. Daylight is a bit warmer, hence the tint. Cloudy is even warmer so it has more tint than daylight.

Choosing a WB is your preference. If you want neutral, go for that look. If you want a warmer tone, which for many situations is preferable, then something close to daylight or cloudy is the best choice. If I am doing sunrise/sunset images, I tend to shoot in auto and leave it that way when I process. But, I know the raw image isn't perfect so I have a method in CS3 to set the white and black points using curves layers with the blend mode set for luminosity. My method gives me a full histogram (0 to 255) but doesn't affect the color of my image. It is a bit complicated until you try it. I keep meaning to write an article on my web site about it because once you see it once, it is a very easy way to make your images really pop. I promise to do it once the holidays are over and will share it with everyone here because it really works well.

 

[boBQuincy]

I knew someone would come along and fix my "false doctrine of photography".

It may not be that false. White balance works across a wide range of color temperatures but one thing in common is all these temperatures have a fair mix of spectra, from red to violet. When a mostly monochromatic light source, such as a red or green light is provided the white balance may not work correctly.

In this case even an ExpoDisc would have trouble, seeing the incident red light as "white" and amplifying the blue and green into total noise to compensate, if the blue and green could even be amplified that far.

Although filtered light may have the same original source, such as an incandescent bulb, the filter may remove enough of the other colors to make white balance impossible. With a true monochromatic light source such as LEDs, it gets worse.

 

[Lizziejane]

Thanks guys... I just have time to scratch the white card off the christmas wish list, and add the gray one instead

Sharon - I'm gonna hold you to that promise! I'd love to learn how to improve my pp!

 

[DVC Jen]

I have a question about your new computer. I ordered my DH one of the Dell XPS's today for his Christmas present. say it runs fast? thats good because DH's computer is so slow its ridiculas.
I guess my main ? is did you get it on the estimated delivery date or did it arrive sooner or later? I am scared silly because my order says estimated delivery date is 12/24 I'm just hoping he will get it in time for Christmas. thanks!

My delivery was set for Dec 12-14th. I got it on the 11th. Hope yours comes early as well.

And yes - compared to my dog slow old HP Pavillion - it is like night and day. I didn't go with the standards though - I upgraded nearly everything.. and I couldn't tell you what exactly I am not the techie - that is the hubster.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

There is one big difference between using an Expodisc and a grey card. With a grey card, you put the grey card in the scene and let the light illuminate it (giving it whatever color cast th light has). With an expodisc, you take the camera to the scene and shoot back at your lighting.

The expodisc is basically a totally neutral extreme diffuser. If you put the expodisc on your camera and point it at the scene you are shooting, it can unintentionally be affected by the color of your subject and try to neutralize your subjects color.

Let's take the extreme example of photographing a badly sunburned redhead standing in from of a very red fire truck in slightly cool light (7000K). If you give the redhead a grey card, to hold and shoot that, you can accurately white balance off of the grey card (except to any extent the card was light by light reflected from the redhead or the firetruck). If you walk over to the redhead, put on your expodisc, and shoot back at the light, you should also get an accurate white balance setting. If you stand in your photographing spot and aim the camera/expodisc at the scene, the camera will think that the light is quite warm because it will see reddish light reflected from the scene rather than the slightly bluish light illuminating the scene.

The moral is that you want to white balance based on the light illuminating the scene, not the light reflecting the scene. And that you use an expodisc by shooting back at the light, not by shooting at the scene. Most of the time, for most cases, shooting at the scene with the expodisc is close enough, but in extreme cases, it can through you off.

 

[Metallicat]

My delivery was set for Dec 12-14th. I got it on the 11th. Hope yours comes early as well.

And yes - compared to my dog slow old HP Pavillion - it is like night and day. I didn't go with the standards though - I upgraded nearly everything.. and I couldn't tell you what exactly I am not the techie - that is the hubster.

Jennifer,
Thank you! that makes me feel alot better. maybe mine will at least get here on the day it is suppose to.
like you, I upgraded almost everything. I don't know what the blue tooth thingy is, but its got that too. I had my DD the computer snob put it all together. DH is going to freak out. his old Compaq is an old dinosaur. well, thanks again and happy picture taking! Linda

Merry Christmas to everybody!