How many DVC rooms in inventory?

[Tiger926]

I just called to check on availability for Dec. 31 to Dec. 7th and was a bit surprised that there was nothing available at all after the 31st. I know it's the holidays and the marathon is that week, but it got me to wondering how many rooms are in DVC's inventory (studio, 1 bed, 2 bed & grand villa)? With 100,000 members, I know that you have to book very early for the holidays, but I just had a miscarriage, so we couldn't book an earlier. We always book our DVC vacations at least 10 months in advance, and this was the first time we called just for the heck of it to see if anything was available. We totally didn't expect that there would be anything left, but we figured we'd give it a try anyway!

My hubby's a bit worried now that with so many members, this kind of thing is going to happen more often for prime seasons - I am a teacher so I can only go at prime seasons and during summer and although we always plan well in advance, sometimes it's just not possible.

I figured someone here would know how many rooms are in inventory as my hubby and I are wondering? Also, my hubby also wanted to know if during peak seasons there were no cash rooms available as he figures that DVC members should always get first dibs for using points. Anyone know?

Thanks, Tiger

 

[Chuck S]

Cash rooms most often are available because DVC members rade to other locations, in theory, booking a comparable room at a DVC resort then trading it so technically, it is being "used" by a member, and that member got "first dibs." The cash raised through the rental offsets the cost of the trade.

Other cash rooms become available because Disney retains about 4% of rooms for maintenance reasons, if that room is not needed for mainteance issues, it is rented for cash by Disney. Since they own it, they can do what they wish. They also control any buildings that have not yet been sold to members, this would include any points at sold out resorts they have received back through ROFR and any unsold units at the "newest" resort (currently SSR). They are available for cash.

A third source for cash rooms is at the 60 day mark any rooms not reserved by members are turned over to Disney for cash. This should not be the case, yet, for December/January.

Those holiday weeks are very popular with DVC members, I would not expect any availability this late without going on a waitlist. As you stated, you have to work around your work schedule. Think of how many owners are parents that also have to vacation on the same "teachers schedule."

If you know that you must vacation during peak holiday weeks annually, you really need to book within your 11/7 month priority window, this is especially true at the smaller resorts that are "attached" to regular WDW hotels. I do know that there wee no studios available at OKW Dec 5 to 14 when I called in July to change from a one bedroom to a studio (I am keeping the one bedroom.) There are over 500 units at OKW and SSR when completed will have over 800.

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks, I appreciate your encouragement to make early ressies, which we always do, but I had a miscarriage as I mentioned in my post, so that wasn't possible this time at all.

I really am still wondering how many total rooms DVC has in inventory (my hubby actually really wants to know that), if anyone can answer that, or tell me where I can find that info?

Thanks for explaining the cash ressie stuff, Tiger

 

[dvc_john]

I really am still wondering how many total rooms DVC has in inventory (my hubby actually really wants to know that), if anyone can answer that, or tell me where I can find that info?

Try this (courtesy of Webmaster Doc):
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=10583182&postcount=3

 

[Dean]

The only change from Doc's numbers would be that SSR has added units since then though many are still under construction. Regardless, the number of units matches the number of points. So the question isn't really how many own, but what is the demand for what you want, esp at or after the 7 month window. There are times when you could drive down and walk up to the front desk and get in and times when if you don't call at 11 months out you may have very little choices left to you. Unfortunately many of those times that are higher demand correspond to when the schools are out.

 

[crisi]

Adding up Doc's max room count (and using the full SSR number), multiplying by 365 for total room nights, I get over 1.2 million room nights. Or 12 room nights per member if there are 100,000 members.

For DISers that say "I go 30 days a year, that isn't nearly enough nights" - remember there are people like me that use a mere 3.5 nights a year (seven nights every other year). But it is indicative of what we've understood in the past - DVC is sold to operate at 97% (or so) occupancy. At 11 months and one day its zero percent occupied. But by the time your vacation rolls around, its going to be nearly completely occupied - how fast that happens is going to depend on what exactly you are looking for at what time of year.

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks, I'll show Doc's spreadsheet to my hubby later. I am still wondering if someone could explain the whole cash ressie vs. point thing. All studios are booked from Dec. 30-Jan 6th, waitlist only, yet my hubby has a cash ressie at SSR right now for the same time period. What gives? We are pretty ticked off that as members we can't get a room with our points that we've already paid for, yet if we fork out more money out of our pockets by paying cash, there are rooms available?

It's been a long day, so perhaps someone can help me understand this better, as right now I'm pretty ticked about this. It's like Costco telling me the warehouse is empty and of stock and I can't come in as they let non-members shop, or not being able to book the country club for my wedding as they've let non-members get first dibs and the place is all booked. What are we missing here?

Tiger

 

[crisi]

Thanks, I'll show Doc's spreadsheet to my hubby later. I am still wondering if someone could explain the whole cash ressie vs. point thing. All studios are booked from Dec. 30-Jan 6th, waitlist only, yet my hubby has a cash ressie at SSR right now for the same time period. What gives? We are pretty ticked off that as members we can't get a room with our points that we've already paid for, yet if we fork out more money out of our pockets by paying cash, there are rooms available?

It's been a long day, so perhaps someone can help me understand this better, as right now I'm pretty ticked about this. It's like Costco telling me the warehouse is empty and of stock and I can't come in as they let non-members shop, or not being able to book the country club for my wedding as they've let non-members get first dibs and the place is all booked. What are we missing here?

Tiger

Let's say you book a cruise on points. DVC sells that room to CRO to pay for your cruise. If there aren't rooms available for cash there aren't cruises. Think about that SSR room as a room that is booked by a DVC member, they just are staying in it on DCL.

 

[Caskbill]

Crisi explained one of the ways.

When a member uses their points for anything other than staying at a DVC-resort, DVC rents out the room that the points would have been used for to pay for what the member actually got.

If I stayed at Disneyland's Grand Californian hotel, and used 50 points, DVC would use those 50 points to reserve a DVC-unit, then rent that unit out for cash. The cash they receive then goes to Disneyland to pay for the room I got there.

2nd. A small percentage (about 3%) of each resort, is not owned by members, but is owned by DVC. These units are used to cover member inventory when needed. Say for example, this week, a dozen units are down for maintenance. So those DVC inventory units are used for the DVC members who booked reservations. Next week, no DVC units are down for maintenance and the DVC inventory is not needed. DVC then rents those rooms for cash, and uses the cash to offset expenses (thus keeping dues down)

Hope this helps.

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks - I understand putting inventory back, but my hubby and I really have a problem with any percentage of rooms being used for cash at peak holiday times. We honestly think it has more to do with marketing - Disney always wants rooms available for cash to sell to non-DVC members so that they can come and stay and see how much they like it, and then buy in. This means though that members are going to be out of luck at peak times for rooms, as chances are this is the only time that it's a problem. Why can't they do exactly what other hotels do - about a week or so before a holiday peak time, they can then offer a cash room if necessary to offset their costs (and there won't be any rooms available)? There is no reason to have cash rooms available now - they obviously do this on a consistent basis not reflective of what season it is, but our point is that at holiday peak times none of this should be in effect. They need every available room they can get for members who paid into DVC.

Thanks for explaining, but my hubby and I are still really upset by the whole thing. Maybe it's because we are very sensitive right now due to the miscarriage and we just want to get away and weren't able to book at our normal 11 months out, but honestly, this whole system has now made us feel as members, like we are being duped (hate to use this word, as we love DVC, so maybe we still aren't understanding the whole process well enough) as the only way to get a room is to pay even more cash for it. We would have been totally fine if all rooms were booked up with points as we know it's peak season, but to make a call and within 1 min have a ressie secured for cash for the rooms that are supposedly not available is very unsettling. Don't like that at all!

One more thing, what if 99.9% of members book outside of DVC resorts that year, that means that for the rest of us, there will be no rooms available for points? I really am missing something here.

Tiger

 

[Dean]

DVC then rents those rooms for cash, and uses the cash to offset expenses (thus keeping dues down)

I agree with all except this statement. I think that money goes directly to the developer. The only money that actually goes to the budget I believe is the breakage inventory and in a roundabout way, points rented for those delinquent on their dues. Breakage Inventory are rooms not reserved at 60 days out and DVC, by rule, has the option of renting those out for cash. Breakage Inventory is the main reason that cash rentals are available short term. Redundant to a degree but just to make sure I don't forget anything, here is my list of reasons where I am aware rooms may be available for cash but not points.

1. Undeclared inventory - SSR only at this time.
2. The 2% or more that DVC didn't sell from each resort. As Caskbill said, usually used as a buffer but can and has been used by DVD for rental.
3. Rooms reserved with points used for cash equivilent exchanges (but not II or BVTC).
4. Breakage Inventory.
5. Points or reservations from members delinquent on their dues, those delinquent on loan payments would not be included in this group but would fact other risks.

 

[Tiger926]

Dean - Some of those other things on your list make sense, but the point that my hubby and I can't get over is how DVD (I'm not sure if I'm using the term correctly - DVD or DVC? Not sure) keeps a small percentage of rooms to use for a buffer - it's not 60 days out right now for New Year's Eve and this is the problem. If people cancel, it's no biggy either as DVC gets to keep their points as it's close to travel time, right? There are long waitlists for every resort, so no buffer is needed at this time of year and the only maintenance that should be done are extreme emergencies. So again, we are missing something.

Also, we are confused about: DVD vs. DVC (why aren't they the same?) and also why we as members don't own 100% of DVC? My hubby the banker is wondering about this.

Thanks, Tiger

 

[Dean]

Thanks - I understand putting inventory back, but my hubby and I really have a problem with any percentage of rooms being used for cash at peak holiday times. We honestly think it has more to do with marketing - Disney always wants rooms available for cash to sell to non-DVC members so that they can come and stay and see how much they like it, and then buy in. This means though that members are going to be out of luck at peak times for rooms, as chances are this is the only time that it's a problem. Why can't they do exactly what other hotels do - about a week or so before a holiday peak time, they can then offer a cash room if necessary to offset their costs (and there won't be any rooms available)? There is no reason to have cash rooms available now - they obviously do this on a consistent basis not reflective of what season it is, but our point is that at holiday peak times none of this should be in effect. They need every available room they can get for members who paid into DVC.

Thanks for explaining, but my hubby and I are still really upset by the whole thing. Maybe it's because we are very sensitive right now due to the miscarriage and we just want to get away and weren't able to book at our normal 11 months out, but honestly, this whole system has now made us feel as members, like we are being duped (hate to use this word, as we love DVC, so maybe we still aren't understanding the whole process well enough) as the only way to get a room is to pay even more cash for it. We would have been totally fine if all rooms were booked up with points as we know it's peak season, but to make a call and within 1 min have a ressie secured for cash for the rooms that are supposedly not available is very unsettling. Don't like that at all!

One more thing, what if 99.9% of members book outside of DVC resorts that year, that means that for the rest of us, there will be no rooms available for points? I really am missing something here.

Tiger

Although it's been a couple of years since I did, I have discussed this issue with financial on at least 2 occasions. They stated they made a conscious attempt to minimize the impact at high demand times. The negatives from some members standpoint is that by going for lower demand times, that means they'll rent out less of the rooms they offer and at a lower price, get less cash and that makes the exchange options cost more points. They do the same with the II exchanges by mostly depositing lower and short notice time. I've been told that only about 75% of rooms offered for rent at DVC resorts are rented.

 

[Tiger926]

Although it's been a couple of years since I did, I have discussed this issue with financial on at least 2 occasions. They stated they made a conscious attempt to minimize the impact at high demand times. The negatives from some members standpoint is that by going for lower demand times, that means they'll rent out less of the rooms they offer and at a lower price, get less cash and that makes the exchange options cost more points. They do the same with the II exchanges by mostly depositing lower and short notice time. I've been told that only about 75% of rooms offered for rent at DVC resorts are rented.

Dean - I'm sure it's only 75% of rooms over the course of the year. High demand and peak times such as New Year's Eve should be out of this scenario. Just like with airlines and hotels that have black out dates, so should DVC so that all rooms are available to members at all times during peak seasons! Why do they charge us more on a per point basis for weekends and holidays, because it's peak time! The demand is there as she told me as there are long wait lists at all resorts for the week after New Year's which is low season for DVC.

My hubby the banker has his opinions and it all has to do with profit he says - if we decide to take the cash ressie at SSR, they get another $2500.00 out of us = more profit for them. DVCers do this a bunch of times over the course of owing DVC, and that is a built in profit cushion for them.

I'm going to pull out my contract and re-read it today as I am very intrigued by this whole process (which incidentally they tell you nothing about when you are purchasing, for obvious reason!)

Tiger

 

[Dean]

Dean - Some of those other things on your list make sense, but the point that my hubby and I can't get over is how DVD (I'm not sure if I'm using the term correctly - DVD or DVC? Not sure) keeps a small percentage of rooms to use for a buffer - it's not 60 days out right now for New Year's Eve and this is the problem. If people cancel, it's no biggy either as DVC gets to keep their points as it's close to travel time, right? There are long waitlists for every resort, so no buffer is needed at this time of year and the only maintenance that should be done are extreme emergencies. So again, we are missing something.

Also, we are confused about: DVD vs. DVC (why aren't they the same?) and also why we as members don't own 100% of DVC? My hubby the banker is wondering about this.

Thanks, Tiger

I think what you're going through is the emotional realization of having rooms available for cash and not for points. Many have had the same experience and many have posted on this board that it was upsetting to them. Many members just have trouble getting past the emotions to realize there are legitimate reasons to have cash rentals and that some of the time this will mean you could stay on cash but not points.

With a resort a large as Disney, rooms are out of commission all the time. It may only be for a day or two for many but others may be out longer. Obviously they should not plan to rehab units during the busiest times and I'm certain they do not. As I pointed out above, there are a numbers of reasons rooms may be available for cash even the busiest day of the year. DVD actually keeps a small percentage of points, generally at or just over 2%. They don't actually keep rooms and they must follow the same booking guidelines you and I do. They normally use these points for maintenance, unexpected outage and as a buffer needed by any system where you have day by day reservations. As Caskbill correctly pointed out, there are times when they do rent out rooms reserved with those points but it is not the general approach. I'd suspect most of the units that fit into this category are actually units from exchange options like DCL. You could do away with that by eliminating those exchange options.

Is there potential for abuse, you bet you there is. If you want to check it out further, you may want to call MS and go up the ladder until you get an answer that satisfies you or you realize this is simply one of those quirks of the system that you disagree with but have to live with. Of course you could always make a formal complaint in a number of ways it you truly feel it is wrong and they are taking advantage. Or you could vote with your feet.

DVC - Disney Vacation Club
DVD - Disney Vacation Development (the developer)

Other terms you might see

DVCMC - the management component
BVTC - Buena Vista Exchange Company - technically a timeshare exchange company that Disney owns
TWDC - The parent company of the other company components including the above.
WDWHRC - WDW Hospitality and Recreation Corp
RCID - Reedy Creek Improvement District - a political component which includes utilities, etc.
Worldco - which I forget exactly how it fits in to this group.

 

[Dean]

Dean - I'm sure it's only 75% of rooms over the course of the year. High demand and peak times such as New Year's Eve should be out of this scenario. Just like with airlines and hotels that have black out dates, so should DVC so that all rooms are available to members at all times during peak seasons! Why do they charge us more on a per point basis for weekends and holidays, because it's peak time! The demand is there as she told me as there are long wait lists at all resorts for the week after New Year's which is low season for DVC.

My hubby the banker has his opinions and it all has to do with profit he says - if we decide to take the cash ressie at SSR, they get another $2500.00 out of us = more profit for them. DVCers do this a bunch of times over the course of owing DVC, and that is a built in profit cushion for them.

I'm going to pull out my contract and re-read it today as I am very intrigued by this whole process (which incidentally they tell you nothing about when you are purchasing, for obvious reason!)

Tiger

First, we're crossing over posts. So the last couple I've posted to a previous post of yours without the benefit of your last post. I hope that doesn't confuse you too much.

I addressed some of the issue previously and I would agree with you in principle and feel they attempt to match this expectation. You may have to agree to disagree with their system.

Remember that for SSR. only a portion of the resort is actually currently a DVC resort. DVD can rent anything they still own and could keep it forever if they wanted. The way most resorts of this nature are built is they are "phased in". Take OKW as an example. Say DVC starts building a few buildings at a time (maybe 5) and as they finish one, they start another. They then add building one to the timeshare component (declare it into inventory) and offer it for sale. They still own buildings 2-6 and so on. Then as sales move along, they add building 2 and so on. They could keep them and never include them in DVC is they wanted. What they try to do is keep enough inventory declared to keep selling but not a lot of excess just sitting there. That way they can rent it out, keep it empty or anything they want.

The 75% was the percentage of rooms offered for cash that were actually rented, if it were higher, exchange costs for DCL, etc would be less.

I can see how a banker could look at it as a money grab. He'll have to find his own way but I can tell you that I am likely one of the least trusting and most cynical members on this board (that puts me middle of the road) and I don't have any concern it's a money grab. But it does underline the importance of reserving early whenever possible.

 

[PamOKW]

I'm very sorry to hear this has been a tough year for you.

With New Year's Eve falling on a Sunday this year, the holiday season is probably extending into the first week of January. People have Monday off and many may find a way to "stretch" it to a week. Booking for the Christmas/New Year's season is best done at the 11 month mark and then cancelled if you see your plans changing. Since you are a teacher and have limited windows when you can vacation, I'd try to get in the habit of picking a time when you think you'd like to vacation, booking it at as early as you feel comfortable. If you see your year changing, you can can cancel that reservation and try to reschedule a new time. Just keep track of your cancellation windows.

I'm surprised you weren't aware of how DVC rents rooms to pay for the non-DVC options members enjoy. I can't say that anything was hidden from me when I purchased. That was all explained very clearly and detailed in the offering statement.

If DVC resorts were only open to members, we would not have the range of trade options we enjoy. Disney cruises on points would not be an option nor would any of the Disney hotels, concierge collections hotels or adventure packages. These all require DVC to have "cash" to pay for our use. The "cash" comes when members give DVC their points to enjoy a non-DVC options and DVC uses these points to book rooms for cash paying customers. The more money DVC can generate with these points, the fewer points we will be required to use for non-DVC options. While there may be some portion DVC keeps, the majority of the rental is used to "pay" for the options"

Once again there is a balance that DVC performs that we do not have detailed knowledge of. It's one of those parts of the programs where we have to "trust in Disney". They spread the rentals out over the year to provide value for DVC members at the same time that they allow DVC members greatest use of their resorts.

By law DVC does not sell more points than there are room nights available per year. Sounds like that may be your husband's concern. But it's clearly stated that this does not guarantee that room nights will be available when the member desires. You just have the same chance as every other DVC owner to book your room throughout the year.


With SSR, the resort is not yet sold out so DVC owns portions of the resort. Unused rooms are not generating money --- it makes fiscal sense for them to rent these rooms. They are not yet part of DVC so they are not going to "hold" them for members. Sometimes, close the date, if these rooms are not booked for cash I think they are released to members. I've been put on hold when a room is unavailable at a resort that is not sold out and then been told that something is available.

You still have time before your trip. I would stay on the wait list. Book for cash (which it sounds like you've done). Think about whether you need to have the entire trip come through or if you would take individual nights as they become available and piece a trip together. The danger here is that you may need to move between different resorts if you don't get all the nights. The upside is that you have a greater chance of catching cancellations.

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks for your detailed explanation. We weren't totally aware of how DVC rents room - our guide vaguely explained it to us, and in reading the contract we became a bit confused, so we'd figure we'd learn about it the first time we tried to rent at 'last minute' or from this board.

It makes sense that they have to have rooms available when people cruise, etc. This better explains it a bit. I guess because we are emotional right now and always book at 11 months (booked a last minute trip in January for March break and didn't have a problem either), we are just having trouble wrapping our heads around the whole thing.

Thanks for better explaining things. My hubby now wants to try and get a room at another Disney resort like Port Orleans, etc. since we now know that this rooms are held for this purpose in advance - we would feel badly if we were taking up a member's room as this is the predicament that we have found ourselves in, but we have a bit of a better understanding of it now, I guess.

Tiger

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Regardless, the number of units matches the number of points. So the question isn't really how many own, but what is the demand for what you want, esp at or after the 7 month window.

Exactly!

That point needs to be emphasized. It doesn't matter if there are 100 members or 100,000 members. Each member's points correspond to actual capacity at a DVC resort. For each additional batch of points that DVD wants to sell, DVD must move a corresponding amount of DVC capacity into the timeshare inventory, where it remains through the expiration of the resort.

But that doesn't mean that every member can always get whatever number of nights he or she wants, at any DVC resort, in any size. DVD did a pretty good job trying to even out demand through season-based point charts, but there are still some periods when DVC resorts book up quickly, and no additional DVC reservations are available.

As others have noted, when a member books Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection, or Concierge Collection through DVC, room inventory corresponding to number of points that the DVC member "spent" are booked from timeshare inventory. CRO then tries to book nightly guests into those rooms to recover the cost of the cruise, luxury hotel, safari, or whatever.

When a member uses their points for anything other than staying at a DVC-resort, DVC rents out the room that the points would have been used for to pay for what the member actually got.

As Dean noted, the World Passport Collection (through II and BVTC) works differently. Actual DVC reservations are provided to II and BVTC, as exchanges for World Passport Collection reservations for DVC members. In this case, the DVC inventory does not go to CRO.

 

[CarolMN]

Even if DVC sent no rooms to CRO for peak periods, I think it is unrealistic for us to expect that there would still be rooms available for peak times (like Christmas - New Year's Day) at 3 or 4 months prior to arrival. Those times are very popular and generally have waitlists at 7 months or shortly after.

FWIW, I think most who post on this issue (nearly all are very new to DVC and are trying to book late in the windo) assume that they would be able to get what they want if it weren't for the rooms sent to CRO to be rented as cash. I disagree - the rooms would still be gone before the 3 or 4 month mark arrives.

Tiger926 - So sorry about the miscarriage. Hope you are able to work something out to come this Christmas. Tell you DH not to worry about the prime times - as long as you book early (like you usually do), you will not have a problem getting in.

Best wishes -