How long and what temperature before my pipes freeze

[Mixie]

I second dfchelbay's advice. with no heat and no electric, there should be no water either. no water in the pipes to expand when frozen and you should be fine.

This is incorrect. Even with city water, the house would have to be drained for there to be no water in the pipes. Well water, as many homes in CT are using, is no difference.

Water will still be sitting in the pipes unless it has been drained.

 

[BellePrincessBelle]

This is incorrect. Even with city water, the house would have to be drained for there to be no water in the pipes. Well water, as many homes in CT are using, is no difference.

Water will still be sitting in the pipes unless it has been drained.

Plus the house would have to be winterized(antifreeze put into pipes)to prevent them from bursting. Sorry Op but I told you when you posted the first time that evicitons in CT are nightmares. You have my sympathies you are damned if you do and damned if you don't here.

 

[scrapquitler]

I second dfchelbay's advice. with no heat and no electric, there should be no water either. no water in the pipes to expand when frozen and you should be fine. I just don't understand how someone you don't even know can stay on your property... isn't that criminal tresspassing? If they are not on the lease, they are not the renters. at least that was my layman understanding, as a renter.

Lack of electricity and lack of heat won't result in a lack of water unless you have a well and the well pump runs off of electricity. Generally speaking, if you have city water, the water will still work, toilets flush, sinks and faucets still run even without electricity. Sure, there won't be hot water, but there will be cold

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

You all make me smile and thanks for the thoughts. The police won't get involved because it's a "civil" matter that needs to be taken up with the courts. This person, who we assume is her son, is referred to as a squatter and I have to go to court and legally take the house back. Now my father tells me on a daily basis to just go and change the locks (he's not even using a key, just leaves the front door unlocked - with his computer sitting in the living room to boot), but if I do that I risk being taken to court myself, so I'm trying to follow to rules, and the rules are breaking me down.

I've been thinking about this. Yes, you *could* get taken to court for just going in and throwing their stuff out/changing the locks, but if the people don't have a cent to their names, they won't be able to get a lawyer and take you to court. In the meantime they'll have to find a place to live while they try to take you to court. That will probably be all-consuming given their poor financial situation. If it were me, I'd reclaim my home and I'd probably also hire some sort of security for it for a while to make sure that they didn't try to come back and vandalize it. You are risking a huge expense if the pipes burst. Would a judge really force you to readmit a squattor to your home? Also, how would the squattor *prove* that they were living there and were tossed out? Wouldn't that be stupidly admitting to criminal trespass?

 

[C.Ann]

I've been "down the road" with frozen pipes and believe me, it's a nightmare.. The pipes froze in my former home the week that my DH passed away (we were living with my DD and her family at the time and my Dson-in-law was in the process of gutting and remodeling it so I could put it up for sale).. Anyhow - with planning my late DH's services - a week delay before his memorial service and burial due to relatives arriving from out of town, etc. - work stopped on the house temporarily and we didn't realize that the oil tank was nearly empty.. Long story short, the oil ran out, all of the pipes (and radiators froze) and everything busted.. It wasn't brutally cold (not even single digits), but an unheated home in the winter is a disaster waiting to happen - whether it's a couple of days or a week..

It seems to me that you only have two choices.. Get in there to turn off the water and drain all of the pipes, hot water heater, etc. - or - deal with some very, very expensive repairs once the damage is done..

Good luck with your decision..

 

[ellone]

I second dfchelbay's advice. with no heat and no electric, there should be no water either. no water in the pipes to expand when frozen and you should be fine.

What about if he has baseboard heating? Isn't there water in those pipes and can't it freeze?

 

[Mixie]

What about if he has baseboard heating? Isn't there water in those pipes and can't it freeze?

Also true. Our CT home had baseboard heating (a system I never understood - it was always cold in our house!) and that is run by water.

People seem to be under the impression that water only enters the house when it's being used and that the pipes are empty inbetween times. That's incorrect and very obviously wrong. If all your pipes drained out when not being used (say, overnight while you are sleeping) then every tap - be it, sink, shower, dishwasher - would emit air when turned on until the water got back up to that tap. That doesn't happen. Water is in there all the time.

Even if the water is not running due to no electricity, there would still be water in the pipes. If you turned a tap on with nothing pumping water, you would drain out only a small amount near that tap. Pressure is required to push water to a tap - that pressure comes from the pump - be it city water or well water. No pressure, the water doesn't move up - but that doesn't mean it drains out. The system is specifically designed to *not* drain water out without opening up a release valve - at the lowest point of the water system. Air in water lines is not good, so water lines are designed to not allow air into it.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Singledad]

and that is why it was suggested to drain the water once it was shut off.

Not as stupid as I look thank you.

and that sounds like a miserable state to have a home in. hope things end better than predicted!

 

[msmayor]

I'm at my wits end and every day this just gets worse and worse and from a legal standpoint my hands are tied, but my house is in jeopordy.

Any opinions appreciated!

To Msmayor: Let me know when you have a law degree or when you are an insurance underwriter reveiwing my claim because you are great at pointing the figure at what is right vs. what is wrong, but I'm following the advice of the professionals. Thanks everyone else for the support and just listening.

Let me apologize for offering an opinion...I got the impression from your post that any were appreciated.

Do I have a law degree or am an underwriter? No. But I do know that if a home I owned was in jeopardy I would not sit by and allow things to get worse. I owned a rental property (though I did not have tenants like yours) and had situations where a bill wasn't paid or there was risk of damage because of a maintenance situation. I did not sit and wait for the tenants to handle it - I handled it myself. We paid the water bill to keep it from getting shut off (because the tenants forgot to pay it). Our lease had a clause that permitted us to enter the property at any time to inspect and make repairs, and that the tenants did NOT have to be present for us to enter.

I do find it surprising that professionals would advise a homeowner to just sit tight and allow a situation to exist where pipes can freeze and cause significant damage to a home go on. Especially when all it takes is a payment by phone to keep that from happening. I'd much rather pay a few hundred now to keep the heat on than a few thousand down the road to make repairs.

But to each his own.

Its clear you no longer want my input, so I'll make this my last post here. I wish you luck.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Any updates OP? Hopefully the pipes are still OK and you got the tenant out.

 

[herdtoDisney]

I'm in CT too-OP, seems like it's warm enough here now where you shouldn't get frozen pipes. Unless we get a really hard cold spell. At this point, if they havent' frozen yet, they probably won't. The only other thing I can think of is to put a couple hundred dollars of oil in the tank-enough to get through till April. Assuming the squatter will actually leave the heat on... anyhow, a couple hundred would cover it till warmer weather and getting the eviction. Sorry, this sounds like a terrible situation.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I'm in CT too-OP, seems like it's warm enough here now where you shouldn't get frozen pipes. Unless we get a really hard cold spell. At this point, if they havent' frozen yet, they probably won't. The only other thing I can think of is to put a couple hundred dollars of oil in the tank-enough to get through till April. Assuming the squatter will actually leave the heat on... anyhow, a couple hundred would cover it till warmer weather and getting the eviction. Sorry, this sounds like a terrible situation.

Wouldn't there need to be electricity to fire the burner, though?

 

[HelenePA]

Wouldn't there need to be electricity to fire the burner, though?

Yes you need electricity for the oil burner. I have one along with baseboard heat. Good Luck OP hopefully he's found some way to keep the house above freezing. Heck if he hasn't he'd be better off in a homeless shelter.

 

[tlh0726]

Deleted my question due to you already answering it on a previous post.

 

[starry_solo]

Let me apologize for offering an opinion...I got the impression from your post that any were appreciated.

Do I have a law degree or am an underwriter? No. But I do know that if a home I owned was in jeopardy I would not sit by and allow things to get worse. I owned a rental property (though I did not have tenants like yours) and had situations where a bill wasn't paid or there was risk of damage because of a maintenance situation. I did not sit and wait for the tenants to handle it - I handled it myself. We paid the water bill to keep it from getting shut off (because the tenants forgot to pay it). Our lease had a clause that permitted us to enter the property at any time to inspect and make repairs, and that the tenants did NOT have to be present for us to enter.

I do find it surprising that professionals would advise a homeowner to just sit tight and allow a situation to exist where pipes can freeze and cause significant damage to a home go on. Especially when all it takes is a payment by phone to keep that from happening. I'd much rather pay a few hundred now to keep the heat on than a few thousand down the road to make repairs.

But to each his own.

Its clear you no longer want my input, so I'll make this my last post here. I wish you luck.

Just started reading the posts and I'm not sure where you live, but in California, such a clause in a lease (allowing the landlord to enter at any time without giving notice to the tenant) would be unenforceable.

Unfortunately, in almost every state, a "squatter" still has rights. That's why the unlawful detainer action had to be filed and that's why the police cannot be involved.

If the OP put the heat back on, would the squatter use it? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[*love*2*shop]

i just wanted to say that i hope you get this resolved quickly or there could be some serious $ done to the house.....Working for a propane and oil company i will say that in the future if you ever rent this property out again, i would suggest paying all the bills so this doesnt happen....( make sure there is oil, make sure the lights dont get turned off, make sure the water bill is paid)

THEN include that in your RENTAL pricing and adjust accordingly...i have gotten MANY a calls about tenants who havent paid and the OWNER of the home trying to call and get heat...its very sad.

GOOD LUCK~

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

i just wanted to say that i hope you get this resolved quickly or there could be some serious $ done to the house.....Working for a propane and oil company i will say that in the future if you ever rent this property out again, i would suggest paying all the bills so this doesnt happen....( make sure there is oil, make sure the lights dont get turned off, make sure the water bill is paid)

THEN include that in your RENTAL pricing and adjust accordingly...i have gotten MANY a calls about tenants who havent paid and the OWNER of the home trying to call and get heat...its very sad.

GOOD LUCK~

This sounds like good advice. I never thought of why a landlord might want to pay utilities. It may also make the rental more attractive to tenants, even with higher pricing.

 

[herdtoDisney]

Wouldn't there need to be electricity to fire the burner, though?

Yes, you're right. She'd need to fill the tank and also have CL&P put the account in her name so the burner can fire. But then the squatter can run her up a huge bill She's really in a stuck situation. Thankfully, we seem to be past the hardest cold so if the pipes haven't frozen, they probably won't (barring a very cold snap).

Here in CT, water bills go with the property, so she has to pay that anyways, but maybe she could get contracted regular oil delivery so it always has oil. I've never seen a single family home here with electricity included in the rent, and usually heating oil is not either-but she could try. I think getting a property mgt co to handle this rental home might be a good idea too.

 

[DebMcDonald]

I want to thank everyone for their support and listening to me ask lots of rental questions over the past couple of months. We took back our house this weekend without the help of our attorney. My huband showed up and the son of the tenant was in the house so my husband went over and spoke to him and he said "I don't live here and neither does my mom" so my husband asked what all the stuff was in the house and he said I don't know it must be yours, so we called the police, he left and the police said because he admitted to not living there we had the right to change the locks. There is no physical damage to the house, but lots and lots and lots of garbage to take out. I've seen the pictures, have yet to see it in person and it's gross, but again - thank you to everyone!!!

 

[scrapquitler]

I want to thank everyone for their support and listening to me ask lots of rental questions over the past couple of months. We took back our house this weekend without the help of our attorney. My huband showed up and the son of the tenant was in the house so my husband went over and spoke to him and he said "I don't live here and neither does my mom" so my husband asked what all the stuff was in the house and he said I don't know it must be yours, so we called the police, he left and the police said because he admitted to not living there we had the right to change the locks. There is no physical damage to the house, but lots and lots and lots of garbage to take out. I've seen the pictures, have yet to see it in person and it's gross, but again - thank you to everyone!!!

Well I am happy that it turned out to be less dramatic than you had anticipated. Sounds like a mess to deal with, but the fact that there is no physical damage to the house is good.