How do we know WL bungalows will be DVC?

[Dean]

My biggest concern with grouping the new and old rooms together is the potential for point reallocation. If a Studio is currently 120 pts per week will the new studios be 120 pts per week? What if the rooms in the main lodge are 160 pts/week and then they are the last to fill and they reallocate so all studios are 140 pts/week? Every new resort has had higher point req. so why wouldn't it be the same with these rooms? Also, I have the same concerns that folks have expressed with poly, pts are so high for bungalows that they are filled and then a reallocation brings down pt req for bungalows and studios go up. I have the same concern for the cabins, they will be very high pts and everyone will say, "I don't care, I don't plan on staying there" and then the points go up on the accommodations they are planning on using (Studio, 1 and 2 BR).

The THV situation is a perfect example, they could roll them into the current resort (with qualifications) and reallocate later (both directions). What they can't do is have new 2 BR and old 2 BR with different points though they could make any new villas substantially different and have different point values. To have different point values for similar villas they'd need to have separate resorts OR they'd have to have a club level or something similar. I don't believe they could do so by view or location alone within a single resort.

Ok time to throw in my 2 cents.

The new vs old resort stuff is pretty easy.

Old will always be old. Everything stays the same.
The lease is for whats under the dvc resort not whats under where the cabins will go.
The MF will always pay for the old resort if they don't make it a single resort.

AKV has Kidani and Jambo on the titles.
They do not have to have the same end date. They can extend just Kidani and tear down Jambo if they wanted and the kidani owners would still have a resort.

Wilderness could have 3 titles if they really wanted. One for the old, one for the new and one for the cabins.

There are a lot of ways they can structure it to make less people mad.

Why extend WL for current owners? If they make a new resort the new owners will get to 2067.
Why would I buy shiny new points knowing that my MF are going to be paying for a resort that only has half the life of my shiny new titled resort.
They extend WL they lose the people that own at WL that would add on at the new resort.
In 2042 WL expires.
They do a quick shine up and make a new condo association.
They sell points that end in 2067 along with the cabin association.

A 25 year DVC would make more money then extending everyone for $50 a point.

A 15yr DVC contract at OKW starting in 2042? HMMMMM

As noted, AKV is one resort. They could term one and allow the other to continue at the end when they take it back but not now as I understand it. I don't think DVC is too worried about making people mad per se though they will be cautious of making them mad with a legal basis to complain. Just because people complain doesn't have much meaning. We've seen lot's of threat's here over the years about complaints, sell, tell their friends but it's always a tempest in a teapot or an individual votes with their feet and another member takes their place.

Plus, another consideration would be whether they feel they can charge the same $165 per point for Wilderness Lodge that they have been charging for VGF and PVB (and even $170 for some new BLT contracts). They might have to add something unique or especially luxurious to those villas to be able to charge that price for a resort that does not have monorail access or a walking path to a theme park.

IMO they can't with an expiration in less than 27 yrs. It's part of the reason I think they either have to extend or make it separate.

 

[Dean]

It would seem unlikely to delay with the project otherwise planned and ? viable though. We'll see, they've already gone outside the rules to extend OKW.

The only part outside the rules with OKW was the threat of a special assessment which I have not heard of them actually using.

 

[disneynutz]

Taking to MS yesterday, they have been told about the construction but nothing about a new condo association or extension.

Bill

 

[nkosiek]

Wasn't there a new law being looked at (possibly passed) about timeshare companies being able unilaterally force extensions? Wasn't Disney lobbying hard for it? Could that factor into this expansion/construction?

 

[freediverdude]

I think I am starting to agree with Dean- unless they want to have a separate condo association with a separate booking window, I think they're going to have to extend the whole resort. Which then brings up how are they going to handle the current owners.

 

[DenLo]

Disney already could change the ending date for a resort's association as they did it with OKW. They just could not make owners pay extra for the additional years. Some OKW owners agreed to the extension and many did not. Disney believes that those owners that did not extend their contracts will end in 2042 but the association will continue until 2057.

I don't know if the new law changes could force owners to pay extra for an extension. I sure hope not.

 

[wdrl]

Wasn't there a new law being looked at (possibly passed) about timeshare companies being able unilaterally force extensions? Wasn't Disney lobbying hard for it? Could that factor into this expansion/construction?

Disney acknowledged that it supported HB 453/SB 932, but none of the news reports I've read characterized Disney as "lobbying hard" for the bills. See, for example, http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-timeshare-bill-20150312-story.html. By the way, the legislation was passed and signed into law by Governor Scott. It became effective July 1, 2015.

I know much has been made about the new law allowing timeshare developers to "unilaterally force extensions [or terminations]." But, upon closer inspection of the new law, I'm not sure how it would apply in DVC's case.

First, the law requires that extensions and terminations must be approved by 60% of the voting interests of a timeshare. In the case of a DVC condo association, such as VWL, who are the "voting interests?" Is DVD the only one with a voting interest? Or do the general public owners in each Residential Unit make up the "voting interests?"

Second, the new law stipulates that the section on extensions and terminations of timeshare plans "applies only to a timeshare plan that has been in existence for a period of at least 20 years." The Disney Vacation Plan has been in existence since 1991, but the VWL condo association has only been in existence since 2000. Which date is controlling? If its the latter, then Disney could not force an extension until 2020 on the existing VWL condo association. That would be too late because the new Wilderness villas & cabins should already be up and operational by 2018.

Third, I'm not sure if the new law gives DVC new powers it doesn't have already, at least in terms of extensions. Section 17.2 of the VWL master declaration already has language that permits DVD, in "DVD's sole, absolute and unfettered discretion" to extend the ground lease and "unilaterally elect to continue the Condominium for the duration of such renewal."

and Fourth, the issue of a "forced" extension at VWL seems to be a moot issue, in my opinion. DVC has already demonstrated that it can extend a ground lease at OKW. One could argue that OKW's extension wasn't 'forced' because owners could opt out of the extension. It doesn't appear DVD needs this new law to handle an extension.

So, overall, I don't think the recent timeshare law change is much of a factor with what might happen at Wilderness.

 

[Dean Marino]

Really? I suspect Disney is gonna do what Disney is gonna do . They can cheat current owners any day of the week, and "Lawyer" us to death.

There is one thing they CAN'T do with Lawyers... restore the reputation of DVC if its destroyed. Really - I believe that is the best defense any current owner has. Get cheated? Take to the Net. Warn everyone about a crooked program.

Now, that degree of warfare is, as yet, uncalled for.... as of today, I can say with certainty that no one has cheated ME . I LOVE my VWL DVC contract .