How Can This Be Defended?

[Oglet]

The themepark jobs are not worth 20 dollars an hour I'm sorry there is no justifying it. I am a part time CM because I love it but I have my own company because I wasn't making tsar much as a full time CM. It would be nice to get paid 20 an hour as a CM but it's to much for what we do.

I agree, $20 is too much but who said anything about $20 a hr?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I agree, $20 is too much but who said anything about $20 a hr?

Exactly.

 

[Figment632]

Exactly.

First thing that popped into my head but like I said I'm a part time CM I know what they want and have no problem with raises as long as it's earned. We as I say CMs are asking for a fewcrazy things is what I am saying,

 

[DC7800]

People shouldn't be trying to raise families off of theme park jobs. They are worth a certain amount and then no more. It's like someone trying to raise a family off if minimum wage. MW should not be constanly raised because people are trying to raise a family off of them. Don't try and do this with this type of job no one should get 20 bucks an hour to drive a monorail or push a button on space mountain

As a practical matter, people too often have few or no alternatives to minimum (or just above minimum) wage jobs. There just aren't enough better paying jobs available for every unskilled or semi-skilled worker who would want one, perhaps especially so today. Further, and again as a very general statement, the minimum wage should indeed be set high enough that people can support at least themselves (and possibly a dependent), even if at very low income levels.

Now, those numbers vary greatly around the country (you can rent a 2-bedroom home for $600/month everywhere, right?), and a family supported by two (minmum) wage earners helps greatly, but you shouldn't ever have a situation where full-time workers are paid wages so low they cannot support themselves. It's a bit hard to envision a job not worth a paltry $7.25. Employers are naturally going to seek to pay the lowest rates at which they can legally fill the job vacancies. Right now, they pay $7.25; If the minimum were instead $9.50 or $4.50, that's what many employers would pay. Wage increases naturally do get passed along to the consumer, but its not nearly so great as people often make it out to be - and certainly all those low wage earners do spend the increased earnings, often at many of the same businesses.

Again, nobody is saying theme-park jobs are worth $20/hr, but neither should anyone be saying they are always and without exception worth only minimum wage (or the currently paid rates). Wages of $10-$15 would be revolutionary to many low-wage earners, and not nearly so detrimental to big business as big business likes to claim.

 

[nytimez]

When you've got employees who make so little that they qualify for food stamps, you're paying them too little. You're also getting dirt-cheap labor subsidized on the backs of the taxpayers who foot the bill for the food stamps.

 

[Figment632]

When you've got employees who make so little that they qualify for food stamps, you're paying them too little. You're also getting dirt-cheap labor subsidized on the backs of the taxpayers who foot the bill for the food stamps.

The percentage of CMs that have to use food stamps is so low that this shouldn't matter Disney pays better than that.

 

[rutgers1]

I read somewhere that Disney pays about $8 an hour. For a 40 hour work week, that is $320. That's about $16,000 a year assuming the person takes 2 weeks off (everyone is entitled to some vacation time). I sure as heck wouldn't want to be living on that paltry salary.

If you are expecting someone to walk around and sweep behind the scenes, perhaps that isn't SO bad. However, from what I have seen, the cast members are truly "cast members" and are expected to be the face of the company --- always smiling, interacting with the guests. You would think that would be worth more.

This really seems like it would only be attractive to:
1) a retiree who is doing it for something to do...and perhaps some extra cash
2) a student on break
3) someone whose spouse has a better paying job

I feel bad for anyone who is trying to actually "live" off of this money. Given the insane amount of money I spend every time my family goes to Disney (2x a year, DVC owners), I'd like to think that they could pay better.

 

[Figment632]

IMO and again I work for them Disney is not some evil empire. Certain jobs like ticket sales, attractions, basically the basic them park employee the jobs are only worth at most 8-11 dollars an hour, if we want to get crazy maybe 12. I'm sorry the jobs are designed for teenagers and retired people.

Am I making any sense?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

IMO and again I work for them Disney is not some evil empire. Certain jobs like ticket sales, attractions, basically the basic them park employee the jobs are only worth at most 8-11 dollars an hour, if we want to get crazy maybe 12. I'm sorry the jobs are designed for teenagers and retired people.

Am I making any sense?

Why are you the expert on what job is worth what?

rutgers makes a valid point in that CM's are held to higher standards than other lower paid employees elsewhere. So the question is why are they being paid so little? What if Disney just became an industry leader and upped their own minimum wage to say $9.00-$10.00 per hour and went from there? Can you imagine the people who would be clamoring to work for them. They would get to pick and choose those who truly have what it takes to be a CM and the magic would be restored.

In the end what would that relatively small across the board raise cost a company that just made 54 million in the past quarter (yes I know it wasn't the theme parks alone). Bur would this somehow be shirking their fiduciary responsibility because they didn't squeeze every nickel from their staff? I don't think so as things at the theme parks (the workaday cash cow) would be much better, much smoother down the road for years to come.

 

[Oglet]

IMO and again I work for them Disney is not some evil empire. Certain jobs like ticket sales, attractions, basically the basic them park employee the jobs are only worth at most 8-11 dollars an hour, if we want to get crazy maybe 12. I'm sorry the jobs are designed for teenagers and retired people.

Am I making any sense?

I see where you are coming from, Yes.

Corporate greed is the problem, if every company wasn't raising the cost of their products to make insane profits then $7 - $8 a hr would be a decent livable wage (It once was)

The problem isn't Disney, Its corporate Americas attitude in general towards profits at all cost.

Wages can not keep raising with the cost of living, its impossible. The only way anything will change for the better will be if the cost of living in somehow controlled.

 

[tjkraz]

Iger's salary package up 30%. Co. profits up 54%. But they can't come to an equitable and fair solution for their CM's??? Something is wrong in Mudville and worse yet, there will be many who WILL defend it.

I guess the one point I would make is that when you say that profits are "up", you're comparing to 2+ disappointing years.

I believe the last union contract was ratified in 2008. In the first quarter of 2008 Parks and Resorts showed a profit of $505 million. By 1Q 2009 profits had fallen to $382 million...but Disney didn't reduce union salaries as a result of the poor financial results.

Park profits were up to $468 million in 1Q 2011, but that's still not equal to the 2008 pre-recession results.

News outlets are all pointing out how Disney is doing much better than it was a year ago. But the fact is that Disney is NOT making more money than they were during the last slate of union negotiations.

That said, I'm all for Cast Members getting what they deserve. That's why we have labor unions. I realize that unions in Florida aren't particularly strong, but they need to do more for their people than simply roll-over and accept the latest offer.

A couple months back the union released a video of CMs talking about their financial hardships. As I watched it, I found it difficult to be TOO sympathetic given that the compensation was negotiated by the union and ratified by membership. If the pay is so bad, why did they agree to it 3 years ago?

If CMs and their unions want to draw a line in the sand this time, more power to them. Hopefully they won't resort to some of the cheap stunts that the Disneyland unions pursue. But if they end up striking or fostering some other form of union labor shortage, so be it. I know WDW has dealt with these issues during other negotiations so they do have a plan. But it's very difficult to compensate for the loss of 20,000+ union workers over any extended period. Workers need to show some resolve if they want to get anywhere.

Simply expecting Disney to "do the right thing" isn't going to result in any meaningful progress.

 

[Figment632]

Why are you the expert on what job is worth what?

rutgers makes a valid point in that CM's are held to higher standards than other lower paid employees elsewhere. So the question is why are they being paid so little? What if Disney just became an industry leader and upped their own minimum wage to say $9.00-$10.00 per hour and went from there? Can you imagine the people who would be clamoring to work for them. They would get to pick and choose those who truly have what it takes to be a CM and the magic would be restored.

In the end what would that relatively small across the board raise cost a company that just made 54 million in the past quarter (yes I know it wasn't the theme parks alone). Bur would this somehow be shirking their fiduciary responsibility because they didn't squeeze every nickel from their staff? I don't think so as things at the theme parks (the workaday cash cow) would be much better, much smoother down the road for years to come.

I'm sorry there is now way you can rationalize paying someone who stands at a turnstile more than 10 an hour. That is crazy!!!! That is the low end sorry but not everyone can be equal there has to be a low end or the company can't function.

With the way you are talking why not pay that person 30 and hour and even though they may be parttime we should give them full Heath coverage as well.

Sorry if you want to make 15 bucks an hour you shouldn't be working an unskilled themepark job.

I'm all for raises but you have to be reasonable not everyone can be equal in pay our society would cease to function.

This isn't Star Trek where it is a moneyless society we don't have replucators it would be nice but it us not how it is.

 

[nytimez]

IMO and again I work for them Disney is not some evil empire. Certain jobs like ticket sales, attractions, basically the basic them park employee the jobs are only worth at most 8-11 dollars an hour, if we want to get crazy maybe 12. I'm sorry the jobs are designed for teenagers and retired people.

Am I making any sense?

I agree with you on this... to a point. I think it's perfectly reasonably to pay people $11-$12 an hour for these jobs, a little less for the newest of the new.

But I think most people are making closer to the $8 range of your example, and that's simply not enough even for a job that requires no real skills.

Also, for the wage earners at the lower end of the scale, I think Disney needs to do a better job of picking up the costs of health care for full-time workers. A gate attendant making $11 an hour can probably get by in Florida on that money (although central FL is not as cheap as it used to be). But not if half his or her salary is eaten by health care contributions.

 

[Metsoskil]

I see where you are coming from, Yes.

Corporate greed is the problem, if every company wasn't raising the cost of their products to make insane profits then $7 - $8 a hr would be a decent livable wage (It once was)

The problem isn't Disney, Its corporate Americas attitude in general towards profits at all cost.

Wages can not keep raising with the cost of living, its impossible. The only way anything will change for the better will be if the cost of living in somehow controlled.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Disney's conflict with its employees. Actually I know very little about it other than what I've read on this thread.

As for corporate greed, though, that's what our economic system is built upon. I'm not commenting whether it's right or wrong, just that it is the "American way." It's capitalism. Make as much as you can. If you've got something that people want, charge as much as you can for it. If you need to hire people, get them to work for as little as possible.

Asking corporations to not do this may be nice for the employees, but it's unrealistic in our economic model.

If Disney could get people to work for $2 an hour, they would. So would any other company that has to answer to stockholders.

 

[DC7800]

I'm sorry there is now way you can rationalize paying someone who stands at a turnstile more than 10 an hour. That is crazy!!!! That is the low end sorry but not everyone can be equal there has to be a low end or the company can't function.

As previously mentioned, Disney cast members are supposedly held to a higher standard, and certainly higher performance is worthy of better pay. Further, if you expect to have employees who maintain such a criteria, you have to be willing to pay the premium. Again, wages of $10-$15 instead of $7.25 (or just above that level) would make a world of difference to the low wage earner, and hardly the excessive burden on business that is generally claimed.

Regardless, how do you justify a threshold of $10/hr for "someone who stands at a turnstile"? If someone flipping burgers in a fast-food restaurant across America gets paid better wages, that ought to tell you something.

With the way you are talking why not pay that person 30 and hour and even though they may be parttime we should give them full Heath coverage as well.

Yes, everyone needs health care coverage. Employer provided coverage, with or without employee contributions, for all full and part-time workers would be one way to go about it. There's no free lunch. If a business, Disney or otherwise, cannot justify paying someone both a reasonable wage they can support themselves on and providing certain benefits like health insurance - how exactly do they justify paying higher taxes so the government can provide food stamps and health care?

Sorry if you want to make 15 bucks an hour you shouldn't be working an unskilled themepark job

So then what are their alternatives? What better-paying jobs exist in the Orlando metropolitan area in sufficient quantities for the multitudes of unskilled and semi-skilled workers currently surviving at or just above minimum wage? Plenty of people take the position that if you don't like Disney's wages, don't work there, but that is only a reasonable argument if the person has a real choice. Too many people across the nation don't, or at least few good options.

You've argued that not everyone can have equal pay, and of course that is certainly and obviously correct. Nor can everyone have a high paying position, but that isn't the point either. The important consideration is that the very lowest paid workers receive benefits and compensation on which they may reasonably support themselves. Again, raises from the current minimum to the $10-$15 level would be revolutionary to these families.

 

[Figment632]

I just don't agree and I hope your not talking about the federal min wage being raised because that means taxes go up even more they are already reaching the levels if tyranny in this country.

I just don't agree you shouldn't expect to make 15 an hour at a thempark that's just crazy. Also offering Health care to part time employees is one of the quickest ways to go bankrupt.

Heath care is a tricky issue and we aren getting government run HC now that the bill wad overturned in the house and a Florida judge ruled the bill Unconstitutional.

Again I am all for raises but you can't go crazy there has to be a limit and it will be even harder to do that now since Darth Iger gave himself a raise he didn't deserve.

 

[nytimez]

The important consideration is that the very lowest paid workers receive benefits and compensation on which they may reasonably support themselves. Again, raises from the current minimum to the $10-$15 level would be revolutionary to these families.

Yes. This.

People opposed to this act like giving CMs a living wage means turning them into millionaires. No one is going to get rich on $10 - $15 an hour. No one is going to live especially well or get especially comfortable on that money, either.

But it's enough for an unskilled worker to support himself, and that's really what this is all about. I don't think it's too much to ask.

 

[Figment632]

The thread is getting to political so this is my last post.

I am all for a raise just nothing Crazy I am still a CM I know the pay is lousy I still do it part time because I love it so I concede pay them I'm tiered of arguing

 

[Disco]

I just don't agree and I hope your not talking about the federal min wage being raised because that means taxes go up even more they are already reaching the levels if tyranny in this country.

Just correcting a common incorrect misnomer,
Taxes are at a 58 year low, federal that is at least. Add the new social security cut this year and it is probably more than that (yeah it's not really a tax but our service is not diminished by the cut so in essence it's like cutting the tax rate).
On the state level that is a little more difficult but considering that a large chunk of commerce is on the internet and not taxed I'm betting that it is at a pretty good time period low. Of course it varies from state to state but you always have the option to move.
While some may consider this "tyranny" I consider being paid by the government for the last two years, instead of being taxed, pretty darn good. Of course I question the fiscal responsibility, just a little, of a government that pays people instead of taxing them.

 

[Figment632]

One last post until Income tax is completely gone it is soft tyranny IMO. Also if you think taxes aren't too high I don't even know whatto say.