Hotel, Bus, ECV questions

[Holoshed]

I am planning a trip right now for September and I use an ECV rented from an outside company for every trip now. The last 3 trips have been overshadowed by issues with their transportation (bus specifically).

Bus drivers seem to have some big issues towards disabled people. Now of course there are WONDERFUL bus drivers for Disney I am sure but I never seem to meet them.

I have often wondered if it was just me because of my size but I am seeing more and more its not an isolated incident.

I got a wonderful rate of 54.00 per night at a value resort but am actually considering spending 220 a night for POLY just for the sheer fact I can avoid the bus system.

I read the FAQ about bus/transp issues and I will keep that number and my video camera handy but when I went for help before I would speak with someone in the guest relations office at the parks and they would always give me the usual disney complaint dept info card but I DO NOT want to be labeled as a constant complainer or someone looking for freebies (not that I ask for them but you can guess what I mean.)

Last time I rented a Dream from scootorlando which all who know of this device know its large but can be worked into even the older buses with some maneuvering but here is the problem I found. I was getting denied the chance to even TRY to board on the buses that cam, whether older or newer. I have been flat out told NO multiple times this last trip and even had a bus drive up, load up people in the normal queue and not even act like they SAW me when trust me, they did because they look at me with that weird look like "oh no not again." Plus when I am the only one in the handicap loading side area, with my size I know they see me, everyone does does and loves to point and stare usually, which that part doesnt bother me so much really since I just want to have FUN.

I also have anxiety issues, panic attacks and other physical issues that make it hard to think well under pressure which is why I do not handle so well when the bus drivers act like they work for the prison system. I practically have a panic attack thinking of how to best route just the ONE common problem of transportation. I am fairly well handled on an ECV and just getting loaded on the bus is never a problem if I just got staff that would work with me.

Now, to sum this all up, I have looked in the FAQ, read some posts here and not really found the best answers so far (yeah I may have missed the specific post I needed lol).

Are there any of the value resort hotels which usually have the most empty buses (first stop) coming up compared to the last or middle stop? I saw a lot of people mention POP but I didnt really understand why since no one specifically mentioned what stop number it is (to determine how full it may be when I need to load).

Is it worth it to upgrade to POLY for the sheer fact of the LEAST need for buses since I go to Epcot/MK the most anyhow?

Sorry for this long first post but I have been reading and checking out this board for a while and just now had an actual reason to register and post!

 

[KPeveler]

Just so you know, Disney has changed the policy to actually enforce ADA guidelines for safety reasons. No scooter or wheelchair that is larger than the maximum size defined by the ADA will be allowed on to a bus.

The Dream in its unaltered state, is LARGER than is allowed. The size allowed is 32 inches by 48 inches.

Apparently some Dream scooters have been altered to make them a little shorter, and they can fit in the guidelines with their front wheel turned.

there was a post a while back about this, which I am sure Sue can give you.

If you cannot make the Dream fit into the box on the ground at the bus stops, you will not be allowed to board. Some drivers may not accept that you can fit with the front wheel turned, as this is still not "technically" within ADA guidelines. If you get an unaltered Dream, you will not be allowed to board.

I figured I should mention this as you may have MORE troubles on your next trip with the buses. these scooters are NOT classified as personal mobility devices by the ADA or insurance agencies, and disney actually DOES have to right to not board you if it is bigger than the allowed size.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Even at the Poly I think you would have to take a bus to AK. Not sure about DHS?

I would go with the All Star Sports for a Value. It is the first one in the line of 3 so it will always be the first stop for the bus if it is going to all 3 resorts. And at the end of the night when it is busy they sometimes send a bus for all 3 resorts or for Sports and Music Combined.

For Pop the bus usually doesn't stop anywhere else so it is the only resort. But that is because Pop is usually quite busy so you will have full buses and long lines.

The older buses that have a lift do have a weight limit capacity for the lift. If you are using a Dream Scooter the weight may exceed their limit so that could be a reason that you wouldn't be able to use those. You might be better off just renting a standard style ECV that is sized appropriately for you.

 

[peemagg]

The weight limit for scooter and rider on a lift is, I believe 600 lbs, but it might be 800 lbs. Someone who knows for certain will be around shortly.

I bet if you got a regular heavy duty ECV (not the Dream), you will find that you don't have so many problems with the buses.

 

[Holoshed]

I thank you to everyone who replied.

I am now going to fill in the details of the trip as close as I can. I was never GIVEN the opportunity to try to make the dream fit on the box loaders. The driver never came to talk to me or said anything but just loaded up everyone and drove off.

I am also under the weight limit mentioned in the last post so I can assure you weight is not a problem there.

I was able to load the dream on the bus many times if it was the slide out ramp but the drivers seemed to give me looks of disgust when I would drive on even though I never had a problem or an accident or even bumped any of the parts of the bus as I loaded it.

Now, I have only used the dream last time so the other 2 mentioned I was using a normal "approved" as you said cart. I still had issues with rude drivers at those points also.

I am well understood that there are people here who know more about the dream than I do but I spoke with company reps for scootorlando who did assure me at the time that the device does fit with ADA standards but the bus drivers did not seem to care. The company could be wrong but as they are the only people who have this scooter for rent that I have found, I would have assumed they knew what they were talking about. They also include a picture by picture step guide in the basket of the scooter that tells how to get it on the "box" style bus loaders but I was never given the chance to try.

To focus back on the ones who answered about which value resort, I thank you much. I also thought I mentioned that Epcot and MK are the only parks I visit while I am there but I guess I did not. Those parks are all covered by the monorail thank goodness and with an easy change over I have never had a problem there.

I am sorry if I was not more clear with some of those parts on my original post.

Edited to add this is a quote from scootorlando.com, which also lead me to believe it fit the guidelines. It does not specifically mention ADA but it does mention the FDA.
"The Dream accommodates a weight capacity of up to 500 pounds and is welcome in amusement parks and all public venues as it adheres to, and meets the official FDA-approved government standard rating for, an electronic convenience vehicle."

 

[katybugsmom]

POP has it's own buses, so it may be your best bet! All Star Sport's would be your next choice! I have also rented a scooter for our last two trips due to back issues and hate riding the buses!!!! We are going back in December and I'm going to try renting a scooter in the parks so I won't need to load/unload on the buses! I wish you the best and hope you have a great trip!

 

[Holoshed]

POP has it's own buses, so it may be your best bet! All Star Sport's would be your next choice! I have also rented a scooter for our last two trips due to back issues and hate riding the buses!!!! We are going back in December and I'm going to try renting a scooter in the parks so I won't need to load/unload on the buses! I wish you the best and hope you have a great trip!

Thank you so much for the kind words, I wish you the best also! I am glad to see it isnt only me

I can tell you that after the one year I showed up and was told "we are out of ECVs for right now, you can be put on a waiting list for the ones that are returned" and then waited 3 hours which I could not do anything, it makes me decide I could not do that gain. Plus the walk from the buses to the park entrance kills me. If you go on a more dead time then they may not be out of ECVs but I am telling you every time I have gone I see a big sign hanging that says something to the effect of "ECVs Sold Out" and you have to wait.

If waiting is not a problem for you, or you get first thing in the morning then its ok.

One little secret I did not know (but this may have changed in the 2 years since I found it out), if you buy an ECV in the morning but need to leave the park for a few hours, they will hold it (with your name on it) in their back room to charge it. When you return to that same park you can just ask them to get it for you, even though its "their" ECV. You have to ask them to hold it for you though otherwise it goes back into circulation. This is the main reason it took a long time for someone to return an ECV for the day for good.

 

[peemagg]

I am also under the weight limit mentioned in the last post so I can assure you weight is not a problem there.



."

I didn't mean to imply that you weighed those weights. I'm sorry if it sounded that way. That is the weight that the lifts can handle and is the scooter plus the driver and anything else being carried on the scooter.

I know those dream scooters are big and heavy. The scooter itself I'm sure weighs over 200 lbs. So If you add that to someone who is over 350 lbs and any gear ( we all know we become the family pack mules with our scooters) and it doesn't take long and the weight limit is maxed out.


I also noted that you put an edit in your post about the Dream being FDA approved and able to be used in all amusement parks. This is true, except that it doesn't say that it is a ADA approved mobility device and it doesn't say it is approved for public transportation. This is where the scooter comes into problems. If a device is not ADA approved, Disney or any other public transportation doesn't have to transport it. If it was ADA approved then it could not be refused. Just wanted to add this as clarification.

I hope the next time you go you don't run into any of those problems, but with the Dream you might as well figure you will.

 

[MattDisney]

My DD (11) is in a wheelchair. We have had many wonderful bus drivers, however, there have been a few who didn't want to load her. We even had one who refused to load her----that is another story.
Anyway, we now spend the extra money so that the two parks we spend the most time in, we just have have to roll onto the monorail. This saves us so much stress. It is a lot more money, but after doing it a few times, we not think it is worth every penny.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The company could be wrong but as they are the only people who have this scooter for rent that I have found, I would have assumed they knew what they were talking about.

The company IS wrong. It would not benefit them to say, "Oh, yes, the Dream Scooter is larger than the ADA Guidelines (and WDW buses) allow, but go ahead and rent it anyway, you'll love it".

I can tell you that after the one year I showed up and was told "we are out of ECVs for right now, you can be put on a waiting list for the ones that are returned" and then waited 3 hours which I could not do anything, it makes me decide I could not do that gain. Plus the walk from the buses to the park entrance kills me. If you go on a more dead time then they may not be out of ECVs but I am telling you every time I have gone I see a big sign hanging that says something to the effect of "ECVs Sold Out" and you have to wait.

That's entirely normal more than a couple of hours after the parks open, unless it's a REALLY slow time of year.

but when I went for help before I would speak with someone in the guest relations office at the parks and they would always give me the usual disney complaint dept info card but I DO NOT want to be labeled as a constant complainer or someone looking for freebies

Wrong answer Listen to the voice of experience (who, by the way, does NOT mind being labeled a constant complainer -- because with one possible exception my complaints are valid).
ANY time you have a problem with Walt Disney World transportation, make note of the bus number, the driver's name if possible, the location, the route, the time... as much identifying information as possible. Yes, you can even get the driver's name: when he/she refuses to acknowledge you, by, for example, not opening the lift/ramp door, simply proceed to the front door, interrupting the boarding line if necessary, and ask. If they decline, well, you'll have your camera .

Take this information to your resort's front desk and ask to speak with a Manager or Front Desk Supervisor. This is TRULY the most effective route, and it's the advice I've been given by both OKW Management and by two Transportation Managers (whose direct cell numbers I have, if only I could find my old Tracfone ). I was very disturbed by something that happened leaving Epcot one night - the entire setup, and Guests cutting the non-line, and talked to a Supervisor when I got back to Pop. The next morning, someone from Transportation called me, apologized, promised to investigate, and offered to send a van to get me wherever I was going that morning.

 

[KPeveler]

The company IS wrong. It would not benefit them to say, "Oh, yes, the Dream Scooter is larger than the ADA Guidelines (and WDW buses) allow, but go ahead and rent it anyway, you'll love it".

Actually I do believe you are right. I jut got measured for a new wheelchair van by Easter Seals, and they measure from the "standard" position - Having a wheel turned sideways is NOT a standard position. The Dream Scooter is NOT within ADA guidelines. What the company says is that it is within FDA guidelines and that previously it worked fine on buses.

I just wanted you to know that recently rules have changed and the buses ARE enforcing the regulation size limit. This size limit must also include ALL accessories - if there is a basket or a backpack outside those size limits, it must be removed as well. It applies to the overall dimension.

I am not saying you have been treated properly by all bus drivers, just that you should expect potentially as much or even more difficulty with buses next time.

There should be a box painted on the ground of the bus stop now, and bus drivers can require you to park within it, to prove you can fit on the bus safely. I have not seen this, but I think it is what others have reported. Please someone correct me if I am wrong!

Personally I wonder if the Dream scooter will start getting banned from some shows too... They are about 12-18in longer than the theatres were designed for (that is, longer than ADA limits without the wheel turned). I have watched dream scooters block aisles many times in theatres, and I have often wondered about the safety of this...

To the OP - You may want to consider renting a different scooter, as i have also heard from previous renters that not ALL Dream scooters have been altered by the company, so even if you can drive into a box perfectly and turn the wheel, it still may not fit.

 

[LilyWDW]

Personally I wonder if the Dream scooter will start getting banned from some shows too... They are about 12-18in longer than the theatres were designed for (that is, longer than ADA limits without the wheel turned). I have watched dream scooters block aisles many times in theatres, and I have often wondered about the safety of this...

Wow, shocked they allow this to happen! Blocking an aisle would mean blocking an escape path in case of a fire or other emergency.

ADA has acceptable sizes for all assistance devices. If someone chooses to use something that is larger then ADA standards, they can get denied. Designers work off of these ADA standards, so if your ECV is bigger then that, too bad, it won't fit and may not be permitted. (Just wanted to put, this is NOT directed to the OP. This is a general statement.)

 

[KPeveler]

Wow, shocked they allow this to happen! Blocking an aisle would mean blocking an escape path in case of a fire or other emergency.

ADA has acceptable sizes for all assistance devices. If someone chooses to use something that is larger then ADA standards, they can get denied. Designers work off of these ADA standards, so if your ECV is bigger then that, too bad, it won't fit and may not be permitted.

I've only seen this in older, smaller theatres, such as the American Adventure theatre which is so tight to get people into. I have also seen people parked so far back in those longer scooters that i could not get my wheelchair by in philharmagic.

I am not blaming anyone here or anything! I was just surprised by what I saw.

 

[lovetoscrap]

It sounds like if your budget will allow you might be much happier at a Monorail resort, particularly if you plan to only go to MK and Epcot. Your vacation should be relaxing, happy and stress free. It is awful that you have had so many problems with the buses in the past.

While I haven't had any bad experiences with the buses I do find them to be a pain with my ECV. When I was walking we all agreed it was so nice and easy to just park the car and let Disney get us where we needed to go. But now it is just not worth the added stress. If we drive down then we just drive everywhere. No worrying about how long it will take to wait for a bus, if it will be filled already, if there will be space for the ECV, if the driver will be friendly or cranky (since I drive I always know the driver will be cranky! ), how many ECVs will be in line, and if I will have a mini panic attack if I have to use the bus lift.

Whatever you choose I hope you have a great trip!

 

[Janell]

I was in a scooter in May 2009 at Pop. The bus drivers never gave me much trouble, but many weren't helpful. My back went out on me the first day were were there so I was in a lot of pain and having other guest waiting in the sun upset that I was loading first made it even harder on me to park the scooter in the bus. To much pressure and its not like I do it everyday. So I ended up getting out of it before entering the bus and my husband park it for me. Which is someways made it worse, I was 31 years old, over weight and knew people were thinking why does she need a scooter? Well I need one due to scoliosis and 20 years of daily back pain. If those people want to live with what I live with, they can enter the bus first. Sorry it bugs me that I get judge on my age. I sometimes feel like i should dress up and look like Im 70 years old or something.

Okay off my rant. I don't find the bus drivers all that helpful. In 2008 when I was walking and my mom was in the scooter, the bus drivers were great. I think its the age thing. Anyhow, at Pop, I never had a problem of not getting on a bus, there weren't a lot of people waiting for the bus in scooters. So it was quick.

One thing I will add in 2008 my mom had a problem with the friendship boats. She was leaving Studios with my dad(who back went out on him a few days before) They had left enough time to get back to the Boardwalk where they were being picked up for the airport to go home. She was denied access to the boat. Was told that scooters were not allowed on the boats. Which was silly, since she had been on the boats for 14 days with her scooter. Anyhow, the CM made her scoot back. My dad being old fashioned wouldn't let her go alone, so he walked back and was in a lot of pain. They didn't miss their pick up for the airport, but it was close. So beware of the boats too.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

have you thought about renting a car as that is what we do. something for you to think about.

 

[Janell]

have you thought about renting a car as that is what we do. something for you to think about.

I think that is a good idea. There are two car rental places on Disney Property. They will pick you up at your hotel and take you over to pick up your car. We have used both locations and everything was good.

 

[KPeveler]

I think that is a good idea. There are two car rental places on Disney Property. They will pick you up at your hotel and take you over to pick up your car. We have used both locations and everything was good.

You cannot take most ECVs in a car, and definitely not a heavy duty one like the Dream is.

Most of us who require scooters or power wheelchairs all the time need to use the buses, but any over-sized scooters (Dream Scooters as well as scooters with large baskets or bags) are difficult or impossible to handle on the buses...

 

[SueM in MN]

The allowed weight for the lifts (which is what I think is being called "box loaders") is 600 pounds, which includes the weight of the scooter, the passenger and anything else being carried on the scooter.
Many of the larger scooters actually weigh closer to 300 pounds unoccupied, so some drivers have said they were told not to load the heavy weight scooters on them. If that is the reason for turning down a rider, they should be explaining it to the guest so that the guest knows not to try to load on any of those type buses.

The allowed weight for the ramps is 800 pounds.

We have called the Transportation Manager in the past with a complaint when a driver tried to load DD's wheelchair with only 2 tiedown straps. (This was where the instructions in the disABILITIES FAQs thread for how to report an incident came from). It was actually very effective.
We reported the incident, I posted about it about 3 hours later and got a PM about an hour after posting indicating it had been taken care of. (The PM was sent by a DIS poster who is a bus driver).

 

[dclfun]

I met a young man and his wife and baby at the w/c parade area at MK a few years ago. He mentioned all the grief he had on the busses and that while they are DVC members, their trip had been booked with FD at a value resort. He said "never again" and that they preferred the Epcot area resorts and would go through the entire park to avoid having to get on a bus. His main feeling was that he was always a "spectacle" ( had had no arms and legs but could hold his baby with his feet) and was tired of the bus drivers telling him how to handle his chair which he'd had since being a very young child, or forgetting his seat belt,etc.. I know how he felt. As to the value resorts, I have rarely had a good experience. There are usually quite a few other guests in ECV's or w/c's and as such I've waited often for a 2nd or even 3rd bus. It gets really tiring,esp in the heat of summer. If you can swing it and it's not a financial hardship, staying at the Poly would be a wonderful, less-stress option. Whatever you do, have a wonderful vacation!---Kathy